NAC 4 - Caster Discussions

[Progeusz]

It's alarming how many people are just eating up whatever their MainTVChannel/MainstreamNewsSite says and blindly follow that. They hear X is bad and instantly demonize everything related to X and can't stop bringing it up on every tangentially related occasion.
Please start thinking as a human being about other humans. Try to put yourself in their shoes. Consider if all this politics stuff really matters for enjoying video games. Hint - it absolutely doesn't. You don't need to be concerned 24/7 about people you will never meet. You are allowed to simply sit back and watch high quality Age of Empires 2.

 

[otw_Da]

this europeans that follow the rules and the laws are really funny. they even worry about the taxes. you need some 3rd world experience.
welcome to the world, where you can do almost everithing, if you pay the price or know the right people.

hey hey don't put us all in the same bucket no everyone in europe is behaving like walking systemflesh

 

[robdyrob]

Do you think it's easy for the average person to move to a new country? Do you realize that it requires you to obtain some form of long term/permanent visa to do so? Also, Russians aren't often even allowed to leave their country. And of course there is the issue of leaving behind your family, your friends etc.

Did I write anywhere that I expect anybody to move to a new country? I'm simply stating that every money spent in or to Russia supports a wartime economy. That applies to the bill for my heating system (at least up to the point where Russia stopped the export of natural gas to Germany) as well as for prize money in E-sports. That people are not willing to move to another country or to freeze their asses off because they have very good reasons not to do so is natural, but it does not change the facts.

 

[SquattingSlav]

There are other ways to send money to Russia. Crypto for example. Why would that not be OK? What law is anyone breaking by paying someone in Bitcoin?

No there are not ...

https://financefeeds.com/europe-bans-crypto-payments-to-russians-as-e10k-cap-scrapped/

 

[LeoMontero]

So you say it would be ok for an organisor not to pay out if he pays the price or knows the right people? Or suddenly we have different standards and ethics ...
In a tournament like NAC the sponsors no longer do business in Russia as part of sanctions. In tournements like Nations cup i doubt that some sponsors would disagree with payments to Russian team with an illegal wire. I know it is the reason why i didn`t chip in the price pool ...

11 11 11 11
where I say that organisor should not pay to a rusian?
you can pay with other mechanism.

 

[LeoMontero]

hey hey don't put us all in the same bucket no everyone in europe is behaving like walking systemflesh

i didnt want to put everyone, just the ones that are arguing here, 11111111111

 

[Hunyadi_]

Just to get back to the original topic, I think Memb has done an amazing job to promote this game and community. Whatever you may think of his style and all of that, just keep in mind that he's been instrumental in keeping this community alive even in the darkest days. And please don't disrespect his casting ability and knowledge of the game. He's one of the best.

Having said that, it is Nili's tournament and he can do whatever he wants. Broadly speaking I think he has the game's best interest in mind with decisions like this. He probably thinks having fluent English speakers as casters is the best decision. It's also why he's a fan of observers. He's trying to increase the production quality and appeal of the game to a broader audience.

So I can see where he's coming from but I don't necessarily agree with it. I think there's a certain charm the way our community and our tournaments have evolved organically over time. And going outside of that to find observers and casters feels a bit jarring.

But that's just a personal opinion. At the same time I'm glad someone is trying different things and new ideas. It is kinda needed to continue to experience growth and warrant investment in the scene.

 

[oozkan]

To be fair, best caster of all NACs was drunk Daut. Nobody reached that level.

 

[GoFatDragon]

On the contrary to Nili and T90 Memb is the one sticking to AoE2 and the Twitch community for ages and whenever he hosts a tournament he tries to include everyone. Something you can't say for Nili & T90 for sure.

"Including everyone"? I'm sorry, but in what world should the personal feelings and egos of the casters be regarded as more important than the viewing experiences of the tens of thousands of viewers? The purpose of making an enjoyable cast for people to watch is easily more important the including people to be nice.

 

[Rayne]

To be fair, best caster of all NACs was drunk Daut. Nobody reached that level.

The sex talk between him and Jordan about ‘being on top’ was pretty amusing. Then him taking away the hippo from Mbl post-interview and drunkenly saying “stop petting the hippo!” killed me.

 

[majklinho]

Lets be honest here for a sec. Yes we have few faces that carried this game through its darkest times, but if you want to go forward you need to up the quality and most our casters dont have that. For years ive been watching MemB claim he is no serious caster, T90 stagnate and instead of talking about tourney games trying to find where to reference one of his videos, LEL, or that one message he received from saymyname, Nili whispering, Dave following a bird while there is a big fight and so on. Im not saying they are not trying, maybe just not preparing enough, but im not stalking them so i have no idea how they prepare. I just see that this community has no real stake for casters since the big names created a monopoly where they expect to be in biggest tourneys just because of name. No wonder even new game like AoE4 has some casters that are higher quality or getting there really fast. So Im pumped to have Dash there to push other casters to improve their commentary and hopefully give the spark to our casters to get on the highest possible level. Or at least start looking at other smaller streamers that have the voice, knowledge and entertainment factor and give them a chance instead of asking the same 5 people just because they are big names.

 

[GM_Septic]

Hey Guys. With so many AoE 2 tournaments happening recently, it's very easy to forget the contribution of our great casters who make the game all the more enjoyable for the new players coming in. AoE 2 is all about community.

Recent events clearly show a bias towards Memb TV . He was not invited for Grand Melee , Before that , so many tournaments have taken place where Memb was not invited. I clearly see a pattern here.

Nilli, T90 -> There 2 people have shown clear bias (I don't want to call them racist) towards Memb. Memb hosts 1600 viewers regularly on his stream. Meanwhile T90 seems to be a flop on Facebook with lower than average viewers. In 2023, when we talk about diversity, globalisation, this is shameful and disgusting. I am appalled and it makes me throw up.

Based on economic standpoint , it therefore makes no sense not to invite Memb. He is kind, he is a good caster, he knows the meta, he casts daily, his viewers love him. His gear is top end. He happens to be 1600 on the ladder, on par with Dave AoE for all we know.

I wanna know the thoughts of the community on this.

 

[archxeon]

Hmm.. everyone that knows Dash here was saying he is a big deal. Dash was streaming with less than 150 viewers on twitch yesterday. I am confused.

 

[Antalagor]

Just to get back to the original topic, I think Memb has done an amazing job to promote this game and community. Whatever you may think of his style and all of that, just keep in mind that he's been instrumental in keeping this community alive even in the darkest days. And please don't disrespect his casting ability and knowledge of the game. He's one of the best.

Having said that, it is Nili's tournament and he can do whatever he wants. Broadly speaking I think he has the game's best interest in mind with decisions like this. He probably thinks having fluent English speakers as casters is the best decision. It's also why he's a fan of observers. He's trying to increase the production quality and appeal of the game to a broader audience.

So I can see where he's coming from but I don't necessarily agree with it. I think there's a certain charm the way our community and our tournaments have evolved organically over time. And going outside of that to find observers and casters feels a bit jarring.

But that's just a personal opinion. At the same time I'm glad someone is trying different things and new ideas. It is kinda needed to continue to experience growth and warrant investment in the scene.

nicely said.

 

[longinator]

Hmm.. everyone that knows Dash here was saying he is a big deal. Dash was streaming with less than 150 viewers on twitch yesterday. I am confused.

He was the host of the LCS - the professional League of Legends league in North America - for the last decade until they decided to restructure the broadcast. He also hosted multiple Worlds.
For anyone who wants to know more about him, I recommend Masmorras's interview with him!

An Interview w/ Dash | Kings & Plebeians: Episode #22

0:00 James' background as an actor 10:07 Age of Empires 2!16:33 Working as a Host25:16 Going back to Acting29:34 Finding T90Official's channel on Twitch38:31...

www.youtube.com

 

[Progeusz]

He was the host of the LCS - the professional League of Legends league in North America - for the last decade until they decided to restructure the broadcast. He also hosted multiple Worlds.
For anyone who wants to know more about him, I recommend Masmorras's interview with him!

An Interview w/ Dash | Kings & Plebeians: Episode #22

0:00 James' background as an actor 10:07 Age of Empires 2!16:33 Working as a Host25:16 Going back to Acting29:34 Finding T90Official's channel on Twitch38:31...

www.youtube.com

Welp, what can I say? Looks like in his LoL days he was simply hard carried by the franchise name and not his actual skills - also maybe why he got removed from the broadcast?

His numbers on twitch aren't anything impressive. He's streaming for 100-150 people right now.

For comparison, Dave, who only somewhat recently became more popular. Streaming for 700-900 people right now.

Having new caster in the scene would be cool but i really don't see what the hype regarding Dash is about. I'd rather prefer if someone like Survivalist was given the chance first. He has actually great knowledge of aoe2, desire to share his insights, fun personality, great English and good casting skills. Everything a caster should have.

 

[KND10]

I am far from being a Memb fan but anyone who saw dash cocasting with T90 lately must be concern about this whole thing. He simply doesn’t have enough knowledge to make the casting worth watching like T90, Dave or even Nili. He seemed lost so many times, repeating either what T90 said or commenting obvious things on screen without any deeper thoughts. His cocky attitude was just another annoying thing, but that I could survive. The bottom line, why not Ornlu? He was awesome when casting for sheeps.

 

[Chanson]

Nili’s logic of selecting casters makes very little sense to me in general. If the criterion is “skill,” then he has a narrow and controversial view of what that means in the context of casting AoE2 (Memb is not for everyone but the numbers are demonstrative of the fact that he is skilled at putting together a compelling product). If it is trying to reach a wider audience, selecting someone like Dash seems like a fool’s gamble because (1) the potential benefits to the product are marginal at best and (2) the likelihood of Dash fans, if they exist, watching AoE2 seems low. If we believe we haven’t hit the ceiling yet (and I don’t see a good argument for believing we haven’t), the way forward isn’t with random casters.

It seems to me that the goal is actually Nili’s idea of building a “brand” (in a similar way to how major networks pay tens of millions for retired players in what I also think is fairly questionable from a financial and entertainment standpoint). To that end, making prestigious, splashy connections is helpful in the abstract. But I’m left wondering why I should care about or support Nili’s brand.

 

[akku]

Why not Survivalist ??

Amazing game knowledge. Loved his cast all the times I saw him casting for Warlords and such.
And for the dudes who want native English speaker, he's one too.

 

[kalpit00]

Nili’s logic of selecting casters makes very little sense to me in general. If the criterion is “skill,” then he has a narrow and controversial view of what that means in the context of casting AoE2 (Memb is not for everyone but the numbers are demonstrative of the fact that he is skilled at putting together a compelling product). If it is trying to reach a wider audience, selecting someone like Dash seems like a fool’s gamble because (1) the potential benefits to the product are marginal at best and (2) the likelihood of Dash fans, if they exist, watching AoE2 seems low. If we believe we haven’t hit the ceiling yet (and I don’t see a good argument for believing we haven’t), the way forward isn’t with random casters.

It seems to me that the goal is actually Nili’s idea of building a “brand” (in a similar way to how major networks pay tens of millions for retired players in what I also think is fairly questionable from a financial and entertainment standpoint). To that end, making prestigious, splashy connections is helpful in the abstract. But I’m left wondering why I should care about or support Nili’s brand.

I think you extremely underestimate the quality of communication and public speaking skills that Dash possess. He was lead host for a major League of Legends event for more than a decade.

In almost every aspect, I think that having someone like Dash would be beneficial. It's not only the reach he brings from the LoL audience or other major RTS communities (He is such a well-known host, a twitter post for him alone would reach more newer people than anyone else in the entire AoE community). But also his skillset. I recommend you go watch Masmorra's interview with him. I used to think Nelson loved talking, but then I watched their interview and I think Nelson barely got 20% of the time talking 11. You can see how Dash approaches NAC, its a new challenge, like a problem he has to solve - getting on the same wavelength with the casters, understanding each other's habits and stop/start points, synergizing with each other's strengths. I am not trying to use big words here, trust me I am by no means a public speaker 11, but it would take years for the average man to develop such a skillset that is required to co-cast with such quality.

I know many people are recommending Ornlu and Survivalist and I love them, I prefer them over certain casters simply because of the depth of their knowledge (same reason I would watch a chill Viper cast than a T90Dave hype casting during TTL). But even they would not be nearly as systematic in this "job". Casting is a team-effort, you are working along with a co-caster and with the 20,000 viewers in the twitch chat with severely low attention span (11 Kappa), so you need to constantly grab their attention, and keep them hooked - while you are also going through hundreds of things in your mind that you have "prepared" as part of your training before a cast.

 

[MaSmOrRa]

Welp, what can I say? Looks like in his LoL days he was simply hard carried by the franchise name and not his actual skills - also maybe why he got removed from the broadcast?

His numbers on twitch aren't anything impressive. He's streaming for 100-150 people right now.

View attachment 204734



For comparison, Dave, who only somewhat recently became more popular. Streaming for 700-900 people right now.

View attachment 204735


Having new caster in the scene would be cool but i really don't see what the hype regarding Dash is about. I'd rather prefer if someone like Survivalist was given the chance first. He has actually great knowledge of aoe2, desire to share his insights, fun personality, great English and good casting skills. Everything a caster should have.

He's not a streamer, only started streaming in January and he's made it very clear he doesn't want to be a full-time streamer.

But if you want an idea of how big his reach is, Viper and T90 have both around 30k followers on Twitter, Dash has 130k.

I'm not defending (or attacking) his choice as a caster, just saying that comparing Twitch numbers doesn't give the full picture.

 

[Halleju]

I believe inviting outside casters is a wrong move, especially on moral ground.
There is a big reason, why nearly all hyped rts failed in the long run and Aoe2 continued to live on through the hardest of times to earn their reward now. Because a bunch of people loved it and never abandoned it, despite all the Wc3, Sc2 and times where mobas were on the rise with Lol and Dota. Those people, who kept this game alive for over a decade, need to be pushed right now.
Not people, who move like locusts from one game to another. I can understand that Nili is "proud" to be able to fish some important esport personalities from the past like Artosis and Dash. But they only acceept his invitation because of two reasons. Their game is dead and they get easy money for a weekend.
They have done nothing for Aoe2, they don't care about it and they will forget it the second the tournament is done. I can't understand how you can prioritize such people before the ones, who kept the game alive in the first place.

And I don't even want to mention their lack of knowledge.

 

[Potkeny]

They have done nothing for this game, they don't care about it and they will forger it the second the tournament is done.

If you wrote this about Dash too, then you must know more about him than what he tells us, considering he is following the aoe2 scene for years and even plays the game.

 

[Chanson]

I think you extremely underestimate the quality of communication and public speaking skills that Dash possess. He was lead host for a major League of Legends event for more than a decade.

In almost every aspect, I think that having someone like Dash would be beneficial. It's not only the reach he brings from the LoL audience or other major RTS communities (He is such a well-known host, a twitter post for him alone would reach more newer people than anyone else in the entire AoE community). But also his skillset. I recommend you go watch Masmorra's interview with him. I used to think Nelson loved talking, but then I watched their interview and I think Nelson barely got 20% of the time talking 11. You can see how Dash approaches NAC, its a new challenge, like a problem he has to solve - getting on the same wavelength with the casters, understanding each other's habits and stop/start points, synergizing with each other's strengths. I am not trying to use big words here, trust me I am by no means a public speaker 11, but it would take years for the average man to develop such a skillset that is required to co-cast with such quality.

I watched it when it came out and, if that’s all I had watched, I wouldn’t disagree with you that he has good communication skills but I was rather less impressed when I watched his co-casting with T90. It was sonic wallpaper* and I’d probably rather have had T90 cast it alone. He’s not necessarily bad but he doesn’t add anything distinctive skill wise to a cast that you couldn’t get from, for example, one of the many sports announcers in the US. Great interview though. I can’t help but feel that if you want whatever reach he has, you get him in as a host or interviewer instead.

*I feel the same way about most professional sports broadcasting on TV so it’s nothing against him in particular. It’s just a style that doesn’t add much to the product in my opinion.

 

[TopperHarley]

considering he is following the aoe2 scene for years and even plays the game.

This is the case for literally everyone on AoeZone. Should we all be invited as casters then?