NAC 4 - Caster Discussions

[XDDXOXO]

Imagine calling someone who streamed ~1000 days in a row as unprofessional.

Memb's commitment and dedication to this game is unparalleled.

I agree with your second sentence, but disagree with your first.
There is no link between streaming hours and professionalism.

 

[oozkan]

I agree with your second sentence, but disagree with your first.
There is no link between streaming hours and professionalism.

Don't know, consistent streaming seems to be a good quality for profession of streaming.

 

[kalpit00]

Don't know, consistent streaming seems to be a good quality for profession of streaming.

streaming is a made-up profession. There's a reason people in the world look down upon gamers and influencers, they are new and non-conventional professions that does not require a college degree - something society has normalized as a means to churn money because it works out for all parties. Streaming is a form of self-employment that only benefits the streamer.

-Hot Take xD

 

[oozkan]

professions that does not require a college degree

Well actually there is a university in Turkey that has social media classes in curriculum, department is actually called "social media management". I am sure there are couple more universities have that. On the other hand, not every profession requires university degree, prostitution to drivers, garbage collectors etc to simple electric technicians (in many countries) etc.

 

[kalpit00]

I agree with your second sentence, but disagree with your first.
There is no link between streaming hours and professionalism.

Agreed. If we think of it as a day in the office with 2 employees. one employee who is working overtime and is hardworking can be compared to someone who streams 100s of hours - sure shows you are a dedicated & hard-working employee. But someone who works 4 hours a day, yet is careful of the way they present themselves, and the impact they make in those 4 hours, can be valued more. From the eyes of an employer, they not only see how many hours you work, they see how impactful you are in your work

 

[Giggling Gbeto]

Arguing about dash's twitch viewer numbers makes not much sense. Me and probably many others always enjoyed him hosting LoL-tournaments. We're talking about millions (!) of viewers at peak times. Still, I wouldn't watch him play casual games on twitch. That's just not his role and what I appreciate about him. I am, however, very excited about his contribution to NAC.

About his role being a caster instead of a host: Of course he doesn't have the knowledge of our beloved 5000 hours+ aoe2 nerds. That's why I hope he's not putting too much pressure on himself trying to hide that. For me, it would be totally fine if he adds his professionalism and casting qualities, while still being the co-caster that sometimes asks the "naive" questions that can then be explained by one of our aoe2 veterans.

 

[JayGould]

streaming is a made-up profession. There's a reason people in the world look down upon gamers and influencers, they are new and non-conventional professions that does not require a college degree - something society has normalized as a means to churn money because it works out for all parties. Streaming is a form of self-employment that only benefits the streamer.

-Hot Take xD

Streamers provide value to people who watch the streams.

There's a reason people in the world look down upon gamers and influencers, they are new and non-conventional professions that does not require a college degree

Midwits look down on people who didn't go to college, because they wasted years of their lives and a bunch of money on something that only allowed them to become a wagie (a slave).

 

[dodageka]

It is always important to keep in mind that there is a distinction to be made between a streamer and a caster. One can be an excellent caster but a poor streamer or the other way around. So if one talks about the qualities as a caster in the context of a tournament like NAC4, qualities as a streamer don't necessarily matter.

 

[Hunyadi_]

Has Dash casted any NAC yet?

 

[LowEloNobody]

Has Dash casted any NAC yet?

He casted the final set with Nili yesterday, and I believe casted some of qualifier 1 with Nili last weekend

 

[Hunyadi_]

Impressions? Was he any good?

 

[LowEloNobody]

Impressions? Was he any good?

He's OK. He has a very nice natural speaking voice (clear that he has been professionally hosting/speaking for many years).
IMO, he has 2 clear areas to improve:
1. Sharing space / trading-off with co-casters. At times it felt like he would just talk for the sake of talking without having a clear point, at the expense of his co-caster (Nili) not having space to interject. Given that he is the "color" commentator, he needs to always defer to the "play-by-play" commentator at key moments (big fights, etc.).
2. His game knowledge just isn't there yet. He didn't know some basic unit mechanics, buildings, etc. For example, he kept calling towers "turrets", which was a bit cringe. This will improve with time of course. However, if you look at the major casters in the scene, all of them are at least at a 16xx-17xx+ level where basic game strategy, mechanics, etc. are well known. If you look at the lower-rated casters, Memb has thousands of games playing and casting, T-west & Ornlu have extensive knowledge on the game outside of playing, etc. Dash doesn't really have that and it shows.
I hope he sticks around and gives it a fair try, but he needs to buff up his game / scene knowledge a bit. Obviously, it's a very tough ask to have your first major casting engagement be a $50k LAN

 

[SlipperySteve]

However, if you look at the major casters in the scene, all of them are at least at a 16xx-17xx+ level where basic game strategy, mechanics, etc. are well known. If you look at the lower-rated casters, Memb has thousands of games playing and casting, T-west & Ornlu have extensive knowledge on the game outside of playing, etc. Dash doesn't really have that and it shows.

Worth noting that this is all relative though. To a 2k membs understanding will seem as bad as Dash's will to a 16-17xx

 

[ninja14]

Obviously, it's a very tough ask to have your first major casting engagement be a $50k LAN

That's the question which everyone has been raising that does he really fit the stature of the event.

This feels like another premature introduction similar to Elie4k at this sheep event, total disaster

 

[kalpit00]

That's the question which everyone has been raising that does he really fit the stature of the event.

This feels like another premature introduction similar to Elie4k at this sheep event, total disaster

I disagree. Ellie did a very good job in TGM. It was that RBW stream with Survivalist where people could really notice the knowledge gap in her casting. Keep in mind that was the B Stream too, and a lot of it was planned on the fly.

I think Dash will handle NAC4 a lot better than we think he will, mainly because he as a professional host has the capacity to learn and adapt a lot quicker than someone who is just setting out into casting.

Another thing to note is that over the years, casters in AoE have "grown" into each other's casting styles and synergized with each other. And on top of that, established casters have "helped" newer casters get comfortable many times (For example, T90 casted alongside Nova which was a really fantastic casting duo, surprised me a lot how insightful T90 can be as a cocaster in someone else's main event). I have a feeling that by the time NAC starts, T90, Dave and Nili will have helped Dash adjust accordingly.

 

[kalpit00]

Worth noting that this is all relative though. To a 2k membs understanding will seem as bad as Dash's will to a 16-17xx

Honestly over the years Memb's knowledge has improved so much. He has casted so many pro games that subconsciously he can relate to certain things which must happen (like the tiniest of details, like quickwalling a vil, or a player not scouting something/reacting to some aspect of the map) and he would mention that too. In that regards, Dash is definitely not upto that level, but we hope that that's where the cocaster can compensate with their expertise.

 

[vesnoimorskoi]

While I personally going to watch the tournament on Memb's stream, it is totally understandable why a popular outsider being invited as a caster. Market expansion, you know

And anyway, how a caster line up is an issue in an open streaming event?

 

[Lokalo]

I agree with your second sentence, but disagree with your first.
There is no link between streaming hours and professionalism.

Well it depends. If you are super tired of streaming already 10 hours or because you streamed 2 days in a row 10 hours each, but you still finish your job and overall basically not missig any important games is in my opinion professionalism together with streaming hours. Being always there for tournaments and being reliable means a lot. And by reliable I mean that you almost always can check memb if there are any bigger games, doesnt matter the tournament. At least I see it as professionalism and this dedication and hours gets into same cathegory. Also I personally find myself less watching people who streams at random hours. I understand that not everybody can stream whenever and so on, but if I want to watch a stream and 70% of the time that person is not there, I will just find someone else and probably stay there.

So in short, streaming for sake of streaming might not be professionalism, although don't think you can call yourself professional streamer if you stream an hour or two here and there either, especially if you are a caster mainly, As for example being Viper and streaming few hours here and there you might do fine, but most don't have that luxury.

 

[slixgotcha]

I'm a big believer in the idea that you must "support your friends".

In this case, it's clear Nili and Memb aren't friends. Which is too bad -- because Memb has been one of the most stalwart 'friends' of AOE, putting in untold hours when streaming this game wasn't lucrative. He is, quite simply, a torchbearer.

Dash is a good broadcaster. True. He brings nothing of unique value to AOE. Replacing the 'friends' of our community with an outsider that hasn't paid the price which has led to this game's current success, is a mistake. It's fueled by ego and a misunderstanding of how communities work. It's compounded by a fundamental lack of insight as to why games like this have continued to add fans in an era of unlimited on-demand entertainment.

For every vocal hater of Memb, there's five quiet fans. I'll admit - he isn't Coca-Cola, a sickeningly sweet beverage that goes down with nary a flinch, he's an espresso - an acquired taste that demands allegiance from its hard-won cohort.

The biggest difference between Nili and Memb is that Memb has fans, and by fans I mean the true definition of the word: fanatics. Nobody likes Nili's commentating that much, because it's obtuse, try-hard, and generally reminiscent of words espoused by the nerdy kid in class that was desperate to impress the teacher with how far ahead he read in the textbook. Clunky German humor that doesn't translate well to English, weird puns, just generally uncomfortable verbiage.

Despite being less fluent, Memb manages to be more compendious. His words - imperfectly chosen as they often are - invoke universal and raw emotion. The impermanence of his grammatical imperfections leads to long lasting memories of the moment described. He is an excellent conduit for excitement. If you are willing to forgive his faults, you are rewarded with a joy that is impossible to mimic.

Nili has been a poor steward of Microsoft's funds. He has repeatedly made decisions that have overtly benefited himself. I would respectfully ask him to pass the baton to another member of the community, and resume teaching maths.

 

[LePac]

I am a big believer of "soft drinks".

In this case, when it comes to carbonated beverages, few can deny the global appeal of Coca Cola and Pepsi. While some may try to remain impartial in the eternal debate between the two, it's clear that there's a passionate bias in favor of Coca Cola. The smooth, crisp taste of a cold Coca Cola on a hot summer day is a true delight for me as a player, while the taste of Pepsi falls short in comparison, pathetic to be honest.

One can't help but notice the difference in quality between these two popular drinks. Coca Cola has a certain effervescence that invigorates the senses and enlivens the palate, while Pepsi seems to lack that extra oomph. Coca Cola's caramelized sweetness is unmatched, and its balance of flavor creates a delightful and refreshing taste experience.

In terms of brand recognition, Coca Cola is the clear winner. The iconic red and white logo is instantly recognizable around the world, and the their marketing campaigns hasbeen nothing short of legendary. Pepsi, on the other hand, has struggled to keep up with its competitor in terms of brand identity, often relying on celebrity endorsements to stay relevant.

But beyond the professionalism and the taste, there's a certain nostalgia associated with Coca Cola that simply can't be replicated. The classic glass bottle, the sound of the fizz as it pours over ice, and the memories of sharing a Coke with friends and family all contribute to a sense of warmth and familiarity that Pepsi just can't match.

And let's not forget about the sheer variety of Coca Cola products available. From classic Coca Cola to Cherry Coke, Vanilla Coke, and more, there's a flavor for every taste preference. Pepsi, on the other hand, seems to rely heavily on its flagship product and hasn't ventured far beyond that.

All in all, while some may argue that Coca Cola and Pepsi are two sides of the same coin - even friends as some might argue - it's clear that there's a passionate bias in favor of Coca Cola and Pepsi has been a poor steward of soft drinks. Respectfully, I'd ask PepsiCo to stop creating sparkling and carbonated beverages and respect the community.

 

[HongeyKong]

Pepsi lovers never do Pepsi good 11

 

[ManchildTV]

I was skeptical about slixgotcha's argument but LePac convinced me that it's actually valid.

 

[Lot]

But doesn't Nili always drink Pepsi cherry max?

 

[paradox303]

I don't give a damn.

 

[LePac]

But doesn't Nili always drink Pepsi cherry max?