AOE-II Monk macros (cheats) are becoming increasingly popular

[drmrboss]

Hello, Voobly Technical Support here - We aknowledge this thread and we are looking into this issue.

Thank you very much for your attention. But the outcome can be still be good or bad.
1. If voobly can not take any action due to complicated nature of software and current available technology, he will proudly say that it is officially approved.

2. If voobly can do something, it will be a good thing for community that would like to see an action against someone who has no idea what fair play is.

 

[SouFire]

The least they can do is ban that guy, the next things is opening a topic about suspicious behavior using monks, so other guys that also tend to use that macro gest reported and eventually get banned too, modifying the anticheat to detect those softwares is going to cause conflict with other apps and maybe affect innocents guys, also like scripter said its maybe is going to cause a lot of CPU usage.

Banning is the simply way around, you have to discourage ppl from using them.

 

[drmrboss]

If people are simple enough, cheat system are not necessary. A lot of people are still playing millions of games of 'standard chess and correspondence chess games' online. In those games it is extremely easy to get assistance from computer software but in reality more than 99%of hardcore chess players dont cheat cos they play with the dignity. For 1%of cheaters, no software or technology can detect during the game. Cheat detecting system can only do retrograde analysis of games of very high rated players or players who are being reported.

 

[Ovenka]

I am so glad now that I am in his ignore list 11

 

[_TH3_M0Nk_]

A bigger question is How will voobly detect if Macro is installed or not?

 

[Brainless]

Hello can someone link me to this macro please? I wanna win with monks.

As long as I don't stream with the streamlive icon on while doing a giveaway I doubt Voobly will do anything.

Unfortunately, this is an industry-wide problem that affects aoc, HD, and even modern games like SC2 and PUBG. I don't feel this is a case of intentional negligence on the part of voobly, though those cases may have existed in the past. It's just very complex and detecting input tampering without a rootkit or false positives is extremely difficult. I can't speak for voobly, as I'm not staff, but after making some test macros over the past 2 days, I can see why they've responded (or not publicized/responded) to this issue in the way that they have over the years.

This is one of those cases where a quick fix for one form of the macro, which might satisfy those looking for direct and immediate action, would only lead to more complex evolutions of the macro without actually resolving the issue. It will likely need to be resolved with changes to core game behavior instead.

Everyone is working hard to research and come to an acceptable solution. I apologize if this issue has ruined any of your games, Carlini. I hope you understand and I'm sorry for the trouble.

Because this topic is specific about "monk macro" and not about macro's in general, i state that it is not the macro's that are the real problem, but the possibility to mass-convert. This macro just abuses a flaw/opportunity in the game. Mass conversions are OP(it has been discussed in the early pages of this thread).

Yes, it may be another discussion, and also hard to fix, but i think it wont harm the game if mass conversions were nerfed. Like as if the devine power does not come unlimited: 1 conversion can run smoothly, but the more simultanious conversions are running, the slower they get.

 

[_TH3_M0Nk_]

The fact that such a Macro exists is not brought to everyone's attention by voobly. So I think there should be some damage control right away to at least make people aware. I have sat as spectator for so many BF games involving cyan and I couldn't figure out that its a monk macro being used, though in most of them he trush. We just happen to catch him in the act. We don't know real numbers of players who actually out there and use it.

Now, if you consider cyan's pov of letting people use these macro scripts - not just monk macro - then tomorrow there would be some other demand for letting people use scripts for some "fundamental" game tasks like spawning villagers, or automatically moving idle villagers to lumber or mine. Maybe it is already there and we don't know.

Enabling an external script, making it legal to use provides lot of room for sneaky clever developers to create their own and inject it in the game, bending it in their favor.

 

[Brainless]

Now, if you consider cyan's pov of letting people use these macro scripts - not just monk macro - then tomorrow there would be some other demand for letting people use scripts for some "fundamental" game tasks like spawning villagers, or automatically moving idle villagers to lumber or mine. Maybe it is already there and we don't know.

technically, those macro's will be cheats too. But the reason nobody worries about them is that they dont make a difference at all. Any 15++ player can spawn villagers without thinking, manage idles and take care of eco. There are hardly any tasks that a micro can bring improvement. It could maybe ease up reseeding farms, but then, this is not vital, and the macro can be a nuisance as much as a helping hand.

As long as macro's stay away from army control - microing units vs targets, unit movements - vital actions that decide the game - they wont effect game results. They will only hide incompetence, and they will maintain incompetence, hindering the learning proces of whoever uses it.

 

[nhoobish]

I do not know about you RM noobs, but in for me in CS, I like to make the game harder for myself, so I hacked the game files and changed my ingame cursor into a hard to see stick.

Next step is to change snow to more white, so it has the possibility to hurt eyes more.

 

[dataidiot]

Now, if you consider cyan's pov of letting people use these macro scripts - not just monk macro - then tomorrow there would be some other demand for letting people use scripts for some "fundamental" game tasks like spawning villagers, or automatically moving idle villagers to lumber or mine. Maybe it is already there and we don't know.

technically, those macro's will be cheats too. But the reason nobody worries about them is that they dont make a difference at all. Any 15++ player can spawn villagers without thinking, manage idles and take care of eco. There are hardly any tasks that a micro can bring improvement. It could maybe ease up reseeding farms, but then, this is not vital, and the macro can be a nuisance as much as a helping hand.

As long as macro's stay away from army control - microing units vs targets, unit movements - vital actions that decide the game - they wont effect game results. They will only hide incompetence, and they will maintain incompetence, hindering the learning proces of whoever uses it.

In very intense Imperial Age fights it's commom, even for experts, to get the economy really messed up. I've seen players like Nicov and Mbl getting over 15 idle villagers multiple times, and I'd not say they were making mistakes in most situations. The games just required focus on military part and they've made their priorities. With macros, that strategical part of play(choosing the most important actions to be done) is taken away and game gets more and more mechanical and being smart is no longer a needed skill to improve.

 

[Haiyti]

economy macros are not as easy to spot in replays which don't make the legit. If you have to press 1 key every 25 secs to create a vill of each of your tcs it's just about gaining an unfair advantage too.

 

[Brainless]

economy macros are not as easy to spot in replays which don't make the legit. If you have to press 1 key every 25 secs to create a vill of each of your tcs it's just about gaining an unfair advantage too.

OMG what an advantage. I have to press 2 keys to create a vill.
I dont have to think about where they are, i dont have to have a complicated mouse or keyboard with programmable buttons, which i will mess up all the time. I press HC. I can do this 5x a second. The following sec i check reseeds at mill, the 3rd sec i visit my both Blacksmiths for upgrades and take a quick look at markets for making trade carts. In 5 secs i have all my economy running in pace, so i can work the rest of 20 secs on strategy. No macro's needed, they would slow me down. I'm a 13xx player. If my economy gets messed up in IMP it is only because i dont need an eco any more.
This game is perfectly playable without macro's, if you want. It is just the monk control that is challenging here.

I just think whoever uses macro is too lazy or not brave enough to take the learning path. In my eyes a dead end, not only in this game, but also for your character and sportivity. If this is the way you approach life, you will end up in the same place everywhere.
Oh yeah, one more thing, you people should play more on slow speed, if you feel you cant handle stuff properly.

 

[hdimac]

Cyan just admit you did wrong, instead you are just justifying your initial position to not appear as an imperfect person, everyone makes mistakes, maybe you thought it wasn't a big deal, well it is a big deal, because macros are outside of the scope of the designing of the game (including its mods and patches), hence macros defeat both the game and the reason it's popular.

 

[dataidiot]

economy macros are not as easy to spot in replays which don't make the legit. If you have to press 1 key every 25 secs to create a vill of each of your tcs it's just about gaining an unfair advantage too.

OMG what an advantage. I have to press 2 keys to create a vill.
I dont have to think about where they are, i dont have to have a complicated mouse or keyboard with programmable buttons, which i will mess up all the time. I press HC. I can do this 5x a second. The following sec i check reseeds at mill, the 3rd sec i visit my both Blacksmiths for upgrades and take a quick look at markets for making trade carts. In 5 secs i have all my economy running in pace, so i can work the rest of 20 secs on strategy. No macro's needed, they would slow me down. I'm a 13xx player. If my economy gets messed up in IMP it is only because i dont need an eco any more.
This game is perfectly playable without macro's, if you want. It is just the monk control that is challenging here.

I just think whoever uses macro is too lazy or not brave enough to take the learning path. In my eyes a dead end, not only in this game, but also for your character and sportivity. If this is the way you approach life, you will end up in the same place everywhere.
Oh yeah, one more thing, you people should play more on slow speed, if you feel you cant handle stuff properly.

I'm quite surprised by your economy skills, especially if you are a 13xx player. In Arabia 1v1/TGs, it's very commom for a player to queue 2 villagers at a TC in and none at other when he's focused on the military part.When someone goes forward in Feudal Age, it's not rare for him or his opponent idle TC because of vill + skirm + spear fights, even if has 50 food and enough houses for the next villager. You could share with the community how not to ever fail under clock pressure. Brainless, I think you are underestimating macros, as they can give small advantages that, in high level games, might lead to a snowball effect and provide unfair wins. Especially if the cheater knows how to abuse of his macro extra speed. I'd say a 2k2 player could potentially beat a 2k4 consistently using macros properly.

 

[Haiyti]

Your name fits perfectly.

 

[streetpete]

Well you do not Always want to create the max amount of vils so sometimes that macro would be a liability because you have to cancel them again. Maybe it would overall be beneficial but I dont think it would have much effect. Idle vil macro sounds more powerful to me,but it would also cause some problems like idle vils in towers, or if you have an idle vil because you are about to wall, reseed of farms when you need wood more for other things etc. The monk macro is on the other hand 100 % beneficial to the user and way more powerful.

 

[Brainless]

Well you do not Always want to create the max amount og vils so sometimes that macro would be a liability necause you have to cancel them again. Maybe it would overall be beneficial but I dont think it would have much effect. Idle vil macro sounds more powerful to me,but it would also cause some problems like idle vils in towers, or if you have an idle vil because you are about to wall, reseed of farms when you need wood more for other things etc. The monk macro is on the other hand 100 % beneficial to the user and way more powerful.

yeah exactly.. that is what is was trying to say.

 

[Philippe le Bon]

Imagine the monk macro with the Spanish inquisition tech… one of the better ways to give Voobly players headaches =)

 

[FeAge]

This clearly cheating. Shouldnt even be discussed... imagine a top player using this. It would be just impossible to counter as it is already rrally hard as it is...

 

[Klaus the Conqueror]

... a top player...already rrally hard as it is...

:roll:

 

[Chessfreak_]

@Klaus the Conqueror:

What do you mean to say?

 

Yep, just plain cheating like any macro. That includes the MBL vill deleting trick (IMO). Advantages due to equipment or software are just silly. Just speaking philosophically of course, a lot of these seem impossible to actually stop.

 

[GmanStreams]

Yep, just plain cheating like any macro. That includes the MBL vill deleting trick (IMO). Advantages due to equipment or software are just silly. Just speaking philosophically of course, a lot of these seem impossible to actually stop.

How can you consider that a cheat? That method uses nothing but whats in the game already, might aswell call using hotkeys cheating then :?

 

[Shmolagin]

Yep, just plain cheating like any macro. That includes the MBL vill deleting trick (IMO). Advantages due to equipment or software are just silly. Just speaking philosophically of course, a lot of these seem impossible to actually stop.

+1 we should all just use rocks as monitors.

 

[xThomas]

how do you do the vil delete trick?