Nations Cup 2019/20

[raxy86]

Catalonia as a nation doesnt exist and never will in near future. Tibet is part of china.

"Sth is part of" is a bad argument. Poland and other lands in europe were once part of NaziGermany...

 

[kw1k000000]

"Sth is part of" is a bad argument. Poland and other lands in europe were once part of NaziGermany...

I am not talking history neither future in 10 years. As of now Poland is a free country, Catalonia is a state of Spain and Catalonia is just a fringe movement which is dying.

 

[Athasos]

I am not talking history neither future in 10 years. As of now Poland is a free country, Catalonia is a state of Spain and Catalonia is just a fringe movement which is dying.

well gibraltar, faroe islands are both no states but compete in football ...
Also how about kosovo, Abkhazia etc, which are only partly accepted

 

[Tarzan]

Well Suomi would have more chances without Secret or AM. Not a bad thing though.

 

[eskimo]

So that is me currently? 11

why not? It's reasonable and that's why more and more show matches (invitational) happen. For NC, I don't expect to see too many teams participate. Even for China, I will be shocked if they can form more than 3 teams right now.

 

[diseased]

Regarding what counts as a valid nationality to sign up as, think there are common sense ground rules that are easily established that would keep it from getting silly, e.g.:

-Player must elect to represent a presently existing sovereign state only, not any other political entity or non-state region, or defunct state (e.g. no Wales or Tennessee, no Yugoslavia or USSR, no non-state organisation like EU)
-Player's chosen state must be fully internationally recognised or at least have a firm de facto existence (e.g. Taiwan does not officially recognise the PRC or vice versa, but those two states obviously still exist, on the other hand Tibet clearly doesn't have any functioning independent government or sovereignty, regardless of the feelings of Tibetans, and breakaway regions by their definition do not pass the smell test for being recognised)
-Player may only elect to represent a single state for the duration of the event even if they have multiple citizenships (to not dilute the concept of representing one's nation and not unfairly give some players multiple chances of winning the tournament)
-if for some reason there is a credible challenge to a player's status as a national of some country, they will be required to give some basic proof of their nationality, but this isn't required out of the gate

There are surely more ambiguities but I think those few rules would squash most of the obvious ones.

 

[Poxo]

Enough with this viper can play for Germany or not, leave that for the admins on the weeks/months to come.

Now we want some real info, when is it happening? any estimation? We know it will last 10~12 weeks to play, but some players might want to decide on playing depending on when it does start.

Looking great so far @robo

 

[TriRem]

Catalonia as a nation doesnt exist and never will in near future. Tibet is part of china.

What do you do about Taiwan though? Or Hong Kong ?

Also, I like how you are extremely confident that Catalunya will never be independent. Do you have first hand insider infos about that ? Because I know literally millions who would like to know as much as you.

 

[green eggs]

Catalonia as a nation doesnt exist and never will in near future. Tibet is part of china.

"Nation" is not the same thing as "sovereign state". A nation is an identity shared around things like language, historical origins, cultural touchstones etc. In academic circles it's widely referred to as an "imagined community".

There is obviously a debate to be had about whether Catalonia and Tibet (and Scotland) should be given sovereign status, a debate that I'm not going to get into. But their existence as nations is a sociological fact.

 

[SouFire]

What do you do about Taiwan though? Or Hong Kong ?

Also, I like how you are extremely confident that Catalunya will never be independent. Do you have first hand insider infos about that ? Because I know literally millions would like to know as much as you.

The international law doesn't allow separation from a established country, especially if that country on its internal constitution doesn't allow it.

Even if you want to get independent you need the acknowledgement of the UN as a country, so you need enough vows, otherwise you will be just an independent organism.

The Hong Kong issue as you can see is far from been solved, but as long as they have enough money and allies they can keep fighting, see Israel as an example a thing violating international laws violating UN recommendations just because they have the support of the US and few other small countries but left a side the countries supporting its the money by itself and interest, the small state of Spain isn't in the same circumstances as the other u mentioned so yeah that thing to happens seems impossible.

 

[Huehuecoyotl22]

the sponsor (who donates most) should decide the main format of the event

Maybe people could donate for maps, I think that has been done in the past. E. g. if you donate $500 you can choose a map to be played in the Ro16. Of course it shouldn't be Michi or Forest Nothing, but some reward, like when the TyRanT sponsor chose Land Nomad could work.

 

[TriRem]

The international law doesn't allow separation from a established country, especially if that country on its internal constitution doesn't allow it.

Self-determination - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Kosovo being an example of a nation unilaterally declaring independance from its original country. Serbian constitution doesn't allow for secession under any circumstances, and to this day Serbia doesn't recognize Kosovo as in independant country while 111 UN countries do.

This to say, international law is much more a case by case scenario when it comes to declarations of Independence.

 

[gmischa]

Why are we discussing all this crap instead of being hyped for ****ING NATIONS CUPPPPPPPPPPP

GOGOGO NETHERLANDS !!!

 

[TriRem]

Why are we discussing all this crap instead of being hyped for ****ING NATIONS CUPPPPPPPPPPP

GOGOGO NETHERLANDS !!!

France will rekt whatever team Netherlands can piece together with scraps. Looking forward to seeing that.

 

[HyunAOP]

UK has no good pros

No idea why everyone is mad about what nation viper can play for or if daut Hasan klavskis and wonder and hico can merge.

We should all be like Nike and Just Do It

 

[gmischa]

France will rekt whatever team Netherlands can piece together with scraps. Looking forward to seeing that.

I understand you must have had some mouthwatering red wines before typing this.

 

[TriRem]

I understand you must have had some mouthwatering red wines before typing this.

Nah, we just need Hera to embrace his inner Quebec and join France A and we'll wipe the floor with dutchies.

Cheers

 

[dodageka]

Make South Korea great again

 

[Laskerf]

So much drama about TheViper playing for Germany and nothing about Nicov carrying Italy to top 8
This is so sad.

 

[King_Marv]

why is there a discussion about "nations" before even a single person asked if he/she could represend Catalonia. ??? This was not a problem in the last Nationss cup why would it be in this one?

And since when does moving to another country mean the same as having that nationality or the ability to represent it??

 

[Marteens]

why is there a discussion about "nations" before even a single person asked if he/she could represend Catalonia. ??? This was not a problem in the last Nationss cup why would it be in this one?

And since when does moving to another country mean the same as having that nationality or the ability to represent it??

I think so, this is just a game.

 

[Michaerbse]

And since when does moving to another country mean the same as having that nationality or the ability to represent it??

Since there are no defined rules yet about this matter. Residence could theoretically be enough if it is defined that way and there are multiple sports where you don't need to have the respective nationality to represent a nation.

I do agree though that it is kind of useless to discuss some of the topics mentioned in this thread without any reason. Although it may be better to discuss it now than when it's too late and drama has already started.

 

[King_Marv]

Since there are no defined rules yet about this matter. Residence could theoretically be enough if it is defined that way and there are multiple sports where you don't need to have the respective nationality to represent a nation.

I do agree though that it is kind of useless to discuss some of the topics mentioned in this thread without any reason. Although it may be better to discuss it now than when it's too late and drama has already started.

Many sports? I don’t know any but I’m interested.. can you name some ?

 

[Michaerbse]

Many sports? I don’t know any but I’m interested.. can you name some ?

Ok, looks like "many" was an exaggeration - I guess I was assuming so because there are so many changes of nationality in sport where people just obtain citizenship of the other country despite having no bonds to it.

One example is chess though, the regulations say the following:
"A player may be registered under a Federation if he or she has citizenship, naturalization or residency in the country of that Federation."

 

[buhanisson]

In real life, changing citizenship is a very slow and difficult process because of national security, immigration laws, taxes yada yada. A person may feel that place X is their home long before that process is finished (if it ever is), and I really fail to see any reason why any of that would relevant for an aoe2 nations cup. Isnt it proof enough of your love for country X that you are dedicated to win the nations cup for it? (As there is a prizepool, maybe not quite enough, but a very good start nonetheless)

Football rules are football rules and dont necessarily precede common sense.