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-R-Then you probably shouldn't go around accusing people without getting your facts straight in the first place, eh?
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Two Pools 2 | Qualification Stage & AW's
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Chrazini
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I think that's the real issue with your posts. You seem to get extremely frustrated at Legendary Pets for not doing things they actually did or for doing things they did not do. You complained that Belgium scheduled a game against an European player at 5.30 and I still don't know what you're talking about because he never claimed that. You said they should have asked for Admin Time, and they actually did. You said that they should have asked to play Sunday, and they actually did.
The impression left is that you lashed out at players who did the right thing but had unfortunate circumstances, without consulting your admins first, and that you targeted them over the other 2 teams for no apparent reason.
I don't think anyone would disagree that 3 AW in the same round is a huge issue and that you have every right to be frustrated and to come up with appropriate sanctions/bans after reviewing the situation.
But writing on AoEzone to target one specific team out of the 3, with erroneous information, while calling for a ban of all tournaments based on one unfortunate instance... That seems to be a reaction of anger, not of reason. That does look extremely unprofessional, which is kinda ironic given the circumstances and your repeated "this is esports we have to be professional" claims.
The impression left is that you lashed out at players who did the right thing but had unfortunate circumstances, without consulting your admins first, and that you targeted them over the other 2 teams for no apparent reason.
I don't think anyone would disagree that 3 AW in the same round is a huge issue and that you have every right to be frustrated and to come up with appropriate sanctions/bans after reviewing the situation.
But writing on AoEzone to target one specific team out of the 3, with erroneous information, while calling for a ban of all tournaments based on one unfortunate instance... That seems to be a reaction of anger, not of reason. That does look extremely unprofessional, which is kinda ironic given the circumstances and your repeated "this is esports we have to be professional" claims.
if anything, the teams that could be punished are the ones who didn't show up/didn't schedule. Not legendary pets.
But as someone has said before, banning teams from future tournaments for such reason is not healthy at all because the competitive scene is rather small and if we are going that way then we'll have half the players blacklisted by the end of the year.
But as someone has said before, banning teams from future tournaments for such reason is not healthy at all because the competitive scene is rather small and if we are going that way then we'll have half the players blacklisted by the end of the year.
edwinTargeting just 1 team that tried to play when 2 other teams didn't even show up makes 0 sense. Either be fair with your punishment or don't target 1 team in particular to punish
archxeonPersonally I don't think Lidakor's heart is in the wrong place, probably should have thought about it a bit more before posting here or making bold decisions.
Maybe hire a publicist.
Still looking forward to the tournament.
Maybe hire a publicist.
Still looking forward to the tournament.
This escalated quickly. Mainly because it feels like the initial reaction was purely based on emotions.
Comparing this qualifier to a Hidden Cup semi-final is just ridiculous. Although this is a big prize pool it's not comparable to Hidden Cup. Also, the players involved are not pro's as in Hidden Cup. So that brings whole different problems to the table.
As mentioned by many others in this topic, the competitive scene isn't that big. The only thing to improve this is to work together. Players (from all levels), hosts, admins, etc. Fighting and blaming each other won't help.
This whole case sounds like (future) bans were issued even before consulting the players. I can't help to feel like the players of Legendary Pets are initially damaged by the statement made by the organizer and that's just wrong.
Comparing this qualifier to a Hidden Cup semi-final is just ridiculous. Although this is a big prize pool it's not comparable to Hidden Cup. Also, the players involved are not pro's as in Hidden Cup. So that brings whole different problems to the table.
As mentioned by many others in this topic, the competitive scene isn't that big. The only thing to improve this is to work together. Players (from all levels), hosts, admins, etc. Fighting and blaming each other won't help.
This whole case sounds like (future) bans were issued even before consulting the players. I can't help to feel like the players of Legendary Pets are initially damaged by the statement made by the organizer and that's just wrong.
@LidaKor I understand how bad the situation is for your tournament and I get that you want some sort of punishment for the players that didn't show up, but did you consider to swap other teams in for the teams that could not schedule, like in HC 2?
It's their bad, if they miss such a great tournament... You would get some content for you and the viewers and I am certain The Imortals or who ever would have had some great games in them as well... I know it's not ideal and difficult to organize in a very short time, but it would have saved a lot of drama potentially.
I'm still hyped for the main event! Thanks for organizing it!
It's their bad, if they miss such a great tournament... You would get some content for you and the viewers and I am certain The Imortals or who ever would have had some great games in them as well... I know it's not ideal and difficult to organize in a very short time, but it would have saved a lot of drama potentially.
I'm still hyped for the main event! Thanks for organizing it!
LidaKorWe don't have enough time to swap out teams. Since in order for the event schedule to be kept (which as I detailed above is something I have to keep myself to), they have to start playing the main event starting monday at latest. Finding the other team and arranging a scheduled game with them in one day is nearly impossible. If there is a reasonable amount of time, and there is no way they can play, that would have been the case. Though, first the priority is still to try and make sure that the original team can play before the deadline. Or potentially expand deadline if possible.
You are right it's best, if the originally for the round qualified teams would play. And I understand that, because the calendar is crowded, you have to stick to the plan and can't postpone rounds, but maybe in the future you should make a deadline for scheduling far enough form the casting of the games that you have at least the chance to look for an backup. I guess it's still hart to find a team that can schedule 2 or 3 days before the round is casted but I guess it would be at least worth a try.
I'm just a noob who has never been involved in tournaments and I have definitely never organized one, but I think giving your self enough time to react to unexpected things is the key to preventing drama like this happening.
I'm just a noob who has never been involved in tournaments and I have definitely never organized one, but I think giving your self enough time to react to unexpected things is the key to preventing drama like this happening.
Yes, that would be ideal. But as my original post says, most tournaments have 7 days. This had 6. The 6 days was mainly because I wanted to ensure playing times don't clash with HC4. That is why the second round didn't start before HC finals, and I think that was the right thing to do, since as it turned out Jordan was involved in HC finals.
Ideally you have 1 whole week monday to sunday, and you cast it the next weekend. But I either do this and conflict with HC (which is bad for players) or go for a slightly shorter timeframe. I assumed 6 days that involve at least one weekend day is satisfactory, since it is not a lot shorter than 1 week that is usual. I might have assumed wrong.
I'd be frustrated, too. But sometimes things just don't go your way, and punching a wall doesn't make things any better. It just leaves you embarrassed with a broken finger, and a hole in your wall.
Lidakor has a valid point. If you do nothing about players not showing up, it might get a problem.
It also hits his reputation as a host and the reputation of the AoE2 competetive players.
Not only sponsors might not be interesseted in giving money for torunaments it is also the host which might not want to organise other tournaments. This would also hurt the community.
It seems for "Legendary Pets" it is quite a special circumstances, because they played 2 rounds, which could be shown.
I think you concentrate to much on this specific admin wins, since belgium said what happend. You better think about the other two, where one team did not even show up. (if this is correct)
As long as there is no real reason for not playing there should be consequences in som way
It is not even about banning players for the next tournament (no perma ban) or something like that. If there is no space to reschuled stuff also the calendar might be to full.
Other "punishments" could be less price money on the next tournament. Saved one is for the others.
Also just showing a yellow cart and give a warning could be an option.
It also hits his reputation as a host and the reputation of the AoE2 competetive players.
Not only sponsors might not be interesseted in giving money for torunaments it is also the host which might not want to organise other tournaments. This would also hurt the community.
It seems for "Legendary Pets" it is quite a special circumstances, because they played 2 rounds, which could be shown.
I think you concentrate to much on this specific admin wins, since belgium said what happend. You better think about the other two, where one team did not even show up. (if this is correct)
As long as there is no real reason for not playing there should be consequences in som way
It is not even about banning players for the next tournament (no perma ban) or something like that. If there is no space to reschuled stuff also the calendar might be to full.
Other "punishments" could be less price money on the next tournament. Saved one is for the others.
Also just showing a yellow cart and give a warning could be an option.
If that would be true there is be a serious problem with the players or scheduling.
The problem with punishing people for cancelling sets last minute is more complex. Some players might indeed have medical/family emergency, when they must cancel a set. That being said, I do believe if a certain player is very problematic and has issues in multiple events, then steps need to be taken.
Before people jump on me for "you think its unfair to punish them for rescheduling but fair to punish them for playing" it is a different scenario. Regardless, the issue has been resolved, please refer to the edits in my previous post and my long post.
Before people jump on me for "you think its unfair to punish them for rescheduling but fair to punish them for playing" it is a different scenario. Regardless, the issue has been resolved, please refer to the edits in my previous post and my long post.
I think it's good that the details for that particular case came out and there was a discussion about it.
Also, I can't help but wonder: What if there hadn't been a discussion about this? Would the whole team and their individual players just be banned indefinitely without anything getting cleared up or resolved?
This is why transparency is important. You might get some flack for it now but in the future everyone will realize that transparency is of key importance, especially if we move in directions and dimensions that are bigger than the current scene is.
Also, I can't help but wonder: What if there hadn't been a discussion about this? Would the whole team and their individual players just be banned indefinitely without anything getting cleared up or resolved?
This is why transparency is important. You might get some flack for it now but in the future everyone will realize that transparency is of key importance, especially if we move in directions and dimensions that are bigger than the current scene is.
People here think they have so much power to influence decicions, publications, giving info etc. and streamer/hosts/organizers tend to too easily give in to those requests. Everyone knows Aoezone is drama, so do not fuel it. Decisions or reasons do not have to be shared and discussed to that extend here. Transparency is fine, but there are things that do not have to be necessarily shared.
AoEZone as a forum is merely public commentary and reaction to actual events. That it's the authority on when showmatches are scheduled and tourneys organized is a bonus.
AoEZone is not responsible for events that are discussed. If anything the forums most useful purpose is this exact situation. Otherwise left to fester, and questionable decisions unchallenged it could cause a rift within the community far greater than any number of pages on a given topic could do.
Instead, a valued member of the community in Lidakor received feedback that will help him in his current and future tournaments no doubt, and a greater discussion regarding scheduling can be raised as it pertains to fairness to host/sponsor for the future. As a result, the overall community scene grows in exchange for some growing pains. One person's idea of "drama," alas, can be another's idea of "progress," in improving the community.
Transparency and dialogue bring a community closer together, not the other way around.
same thing happened to us when i was out of internet for full day (ofc i didnt knew i was going to have 0 internet that day) . since we agreed with one day (thusday) and the other team could not play any other day (wednesday - friday - saturday - sunday) we were forced into AL
we did not disapear, i was in contact with staff since minute 1 when i knew i would be without internet. issue is the other team had 0 time to play vs us in any of the other days. ofc staff give AL to us, where i can prove we were the ones trying to actually get the games done
Okay, so if you look at it from our perspective, there is 3 options.
1. Say that the team that had to cancel the appointed time takes Admin Loss. This was the case for multiple tournaments in the past.
2. Say the other team that didn't have any other time to play is the one causing the problem, and you get admin win. Would this be fair to that team? As discussed in the posts above, noone is full time, there is a chance they indeed do not have any time.
3. Say we expand timeframes: I discussed this above. Main event timeframes have been agreed upon by MS we cannot move them just like that. And since we have the main event being played during next week, we can't just expand play window by 4 days. Even if we do, what if the other team is not available on next weekdays?
Which would you choose out of these?
I can tell you, this is extremely sad for me as well. If you believe I like handing out AWs then you are wrong. I am working towards the success of the event, and trying my best to ensure entertainment for viewers, and a good tournament for sponsors.
And I am deeply saddened that you claim that I/we are forcing an AL on you. You know it very well that I am trying to be as flexible as possible. In Two Pools 1, if you still remember that, at 2-2 Goku's hard drive stopped working. You couldnt continue to play. As far as I can recall the opponent asked for an admin win. I wanted to see the conclusion and a fair ending, and we decided that you play the final game the next day. Eldhrimnyr's donation sent to you made you buy an SSD to Goku so he can play the next day, and you won. If you really want, I can try looking up the chatlogs on voobly about this. I was trying to be as flexible as possible there, and I am in general trying to be as flexible as possible. But as much as tournament hosts (including myself) have to understand scheduling is hard and sometimes there can be problems, the players also need to understand that it is not always possible to expand deadlines. Not because we are jerks, but because we are also restricted by some factors. And it breaks my heart to see ANY admin loss in these rounds, I can tell you that I would be the happiest if there weren't any admin wins.
you didnt force AL, the other team forced AL. As Chrazini told me hes just following the rules. theres is np about that, but i cant help to have the feeling that the other team forced it on us.
btw yes i remember that and yes tnx alot, but this time there was no flexibility, there was no talk, the other team couldnt play wednesday, friday, sat sunday. and thats it, we got AL
I totally get your point. However, what would be your suggestion then? If you believe opponent forced AL, what if they say they can't play for 5 more days?
The problem is: if I say AL to you for missing schedule time, that is unfair for you if opponent really tried to avoid playing. But if they didn't, and indeed it is just their life preventing them from playing at other time, and we say its AW to you, then it is unfair to them.
Unfortunately, there is no good judgement with this. No matter what the decision is, one team will feel it is unfair. I myself also wish the games would just be played, and we would not have to worry about situations like this.
The problem is: if I say AL to you for missing schedule time, that is unfair for you if opponent really tried to avoid playing. But if they didn't, and indeed it is just their life preventing them from playing at other time, and we say its AW to you, then it is unfair to them.
Unfortunately, there is no good judgement with this. No matter what the decision is, one team will feel it is unfair. I myself also wish the games would just be played, and we would not have to worry about situations like this.
SuperskinnyBLSNo offense to Fire, but I remember him and his squad forcing an AL on Luca, Vodka and Ganji, when Luca REd, when he thought he had a bugged gold ( turned out it wasn't but it required like 10 minutes of checking ) .
like it was done lots of times before, admin time is sett and we play.
i didnt miss the time, i was in contact with your admin all the time, also i cant leave my home and play somewhere else since we are at lockdown here, believe me i would if i could.
The main thing I get from that tricky situation is that Daniel would indeed have been better off saying he had no internet before the games instead of trying to play, because then he would "just" have received an AL and not been threatened of being banned from future tournaments. As I suspected.
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