Two Pools 2 | Qualification Stage & AW's

[welcometorapture]

Except the time to play the series was one full week. Everybody is only casting recorded games.

Impressive how everyone is giving Pets a pass for just deciding not to continue because of lag. I remember aoelympics 4v4 arena when Norway just completely suffered under lag stemming from cong's potato PC. Of course, they continued, as did their opponents. But yeah, I mean Lidakor is totally unreasonable for expecting players to not just walk off the pitch. It's not like he is putting time and effort into this.

Two wrongs don't make a right etc etc
I don't give them a pass (not that it matters who I give a pass to), but the decision seems unfairly harsh

 

[Spawn]

I can agree with LidaKor on his assessment that the AoE community lacks professionalism

He should really take that comment and focus on him self as well, because the way he conducted him self at the start of his stream and frustration he let out towards these players was miles above any lack of professionalism the players had. The way he conducted him self in my opinion was shameful for the community and a host to lash out at these players in these circumstances is terrible to see.

Their is a reason over 20 years of tournaments team events have taken time its not easy to schedule its simple as that, and if your giving a short timeframe for a qualifier matches to aws will happen.

 

[Thorben the Unjust]

a short timeframe for a qualifier matches

Six days are too short? How much time do you want?
And why didn't Bugum and AJ finish out the set when it was too bad for Daniel, and for him alone?

 

[-R-]

Six days are too short? How much time do you want?
And why didn't Bugum and AJ finish out the set when it was too bad for Daniel, and for him alone?

Do you even know if AJ was available at all at that time?

 

[welcometorapture]

Do you even know if AJ was available at all at that time?

Bugum addresses it in his first post:

The problem still was that AJ was gone on saturday

 

[bulletchen]

this topic makes me sad
must be so frustrating for everyone involved..

 

[Influenza]

Six days are too short? How much time do you want?
And why didn't Bugum and AJ finish out the set when it was too bad for Daniel, and for him alone?

Very different timezones like in the case of this match, with NA, EU, Asia means the only possible times to play is the weekend. "6 days" is pretty meaningless when in reality, only 1 day was even feasible. Think a little jeez

 

[chicklet]

Without transparency we’re all left to draw conclusions from limited information.

Based on the responses here and in Lidakor’s stream, my own assessment is that the punishment is astonishingly disproportionate.

Directing anger and claims of disrespect for the tournament and sponsor seems misplaced. You could use this platform and opportunity to address the same sponsor - explain why the games weren’t fulfilled, and to fix their damn game!

Unless I see something to change my assessment, I will be boycotting Two Pools 2 and all future Lidakor tournaments.

 

[Spawn]

Six days are too short? How much time do you want?

Not trying to sound to condescending however the way the mismatched time-zone works is unfortunately if players work, well that can cut out 8-10 hours, and unfortunately while one player isn't working it means another player might be, which can easily cut off 5 days entirely so yes 6 days isn't a lot when they only have one.

Also everyone is acting as if this is some crazy prize pool tournament, It might be S class but it's still only a 10k prize pool, with teams bottom 8 teams in the main event only getting $200 which means less $100 to each player or less, which can easily be less then a days work, so not exactly worth taking off.

Reminder for everyone that in most cases when it comes to AOE Tournaments its the hosts/casters generally making more money from stream revenue not the players.

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

We opened the pandora box POGGERS

 

[LidaKor]

All right, let's clean things up.

First of all, I am probably the most disappointed in the situation. As a caster, I want to see games being played. I am trying to be as flexible as possible, but sometimes things won't turn out the way that everybody likes it.

My main question about future ban: if I say: "hey its okay", what prevents this from happening again? Sponsors (regardless of who it is) want to see content for their money. We had 3 forfeits out of 8 decider sets in a tournament. Raise your hand if you think it is normal. Imagine you donate a bunch of money for an event, and then half the players just say in the last second "sorry we can't play". The playing times were well known for a long time, it was published the same time as the announcement.

Yes, one player had internet issues, that is unfortunate. Normally, it would be fine to try and extend it. The attitude is the problem imo. They could have asked "hey we have internet issues", would it be possible to finish the set sunday or something. No, they said, okay we are out. Leaving viewers, casters, sponsors without content. All AoE2 tournament rule books heavily penalize giving admin losses with prizemoney loss. Since the qualifiers don't have prizemoney on the line in this event, that obviously means nothing for the players. And once again: what prevents from players doing this again in a future event?

Regarding the argument about: "at least they showed up". I do hope that in the future players that are troublesome with scheduling and arriving on time will suffer from penalties. YES. I know noone is a fulltime player, they have jobs, etc. It is fine. Yet if you confirmed a time, you gotta attend it. In King of The Hippo 14++ players playing for $250 prizemoney ALL arrived on time. They also have jobs. They also have school. The problem is that it seems that many believe it is all right to screw up scheduling and constantly ask for delays. I am very flexible whenever possible: as an example when Nili asked if he can show the recorded POV of his games the same time as the cast goes, I said yes, and in fact scheduled the cast of that series to make sure it doesnt clash with the showmatch he wanted to play the same day. If they asked "hey, sorry we have internet problem, and our backup isnt available, can we figure something out to play sunday or so", we probably would have tried finding a solution. But instead, they decided to forfeit, taking a spot in the qualifiers from another team that may have at least delivered games to the viewers, sponsors. And such a thing ruins tournament experience for many, tens of casters, viewers asking what happened to other series. This happened. Forfeits all over the place. We are esports baby? Imagine if the Hidden Cup 3 main event would have had 3 forfeits because they couldnt find a time to play. Is it different? It is not. The magnitude of the event may be bigger there, but regardless, players giving multiple forfeits in sponsored events hurts competitive AoE, since sponsors will be less likely to contribute if they get half the games they were promised because of all the forfeits. You could say "it is only 3 forfeits tho". Yes, its 3 for now. Maybe 5 in the next event. Maybe 10 after. What will prevent such a things from happening if not regulations?

This to me is a really sad day as well, since I personally had good relations with many of the players involved in this, and it hurts my reputation as a tournament host quite badly as well. But it cannot be expected that deadlines can always be expanded because of things happening. That being said, I am willing to reconsider my opinion on the ban of these players on my future events after a personal discussion with them on the matter, in case they can ensure that such a thing does not happen again (EDIT: after having discussions with some involved, we will not have any further punishment for the players in future events)
I do believe a ban is a harsh punishment, but there needs to be more professionalism from the players.

One more thing to add about comments above: "why cramming in qualifiers to one weekend". AoE2 has a tournament calendar, I have limitations I have to align to. You could say: why to rounds of qualifiers. Well, is did this specifically because I wanted to be nice to people. Last TwoPools and Empire Wars Duo, teams reached out to me that they just missed the cut and why am I not making bracket bigger. I decided by 2 rounds so we can fit in 24 teams instead of 16.
Regarding the "giving 6 days to schedule" argument. Since we decided to have 2 rounds so there is less drama about teams missing out, we had to have 2 weeks. Anyone noticed that the playing times only started once most of the HC4 games were played. The 6 days were given so that a team that may have a player in HC4 can focus on that before playing two pools. And because of Jordan it really was the good decision in my opinion. Would have been it better to start playing 1 week earlier, give 10 days each team to schedule, and force Jordan to play TwoPools beofre he is finished with hidden cup? Probably no. Most tournaments have 1 week/round. This one had 6 days to accomodate players playing in HC4. Feel free to reach out to me if you believe these decisions were wrong.

I am fairly certain many will hate me know, and believe I am an arrogant jerk. You have the right to do that, but maybe some day you consider my point, if you consider that an entire day of casting was ruined (not just for me, but all casters) because of multiple forfeits. I certainly hope players will think this over themselves, and be a bit more mindful about tournaments, and only sign up for something they really want to commit their time and effort to prepare, read rules, schedule and appear on time.

With this being said, let us please try to close the drama over here, and get ready for the main event of the tournament, since the main focus should be on the positives to come. The qualifiers that were played yielded extremely entertaining games, and people should be looking forward to the games of the main event.

If anyone is still wishing to have a discussion about this, I am more than happy to answer questions in direct messages.

 

[n0brain]

the only alternative would be to pre define backup timeslots and limit signup to players who guarantee availability at said timeslots. yes, some people wont be able too and there couldnt sign up. is life unfair? yes. sadly the earth is some weird spaceball and has timezones.) or have it in weekend format, but that would be a completely different structure ofc.

excited for the main event! May the best team that has DauT win!

 

[Daniel]

All right, let's clean things up.

First of all, I am probably the most disappointed in the situation. As a caster, I want to see games being played. I am trying to be as flexible as possible, but sometimes things won't turn out the way that everybody likes it.

My main question about future ban: if I say: "hey its okay", what prevents this from happening again? Sponsors (regardless of who it is) want to see content for their money. We had 3 forfeits out of 8 decider sets in a tournament. Raise your hand if you think it is normal. Imagine you donate a bunch of money for an event, and then half the players just say in the last second "sorry we can't play". The playing times were well known for a long time, it was published the same time as the announcement.

Yes, one player had internet issues, that is unfortunate. Normally, it would be fine to try and extend it. The attitude is the problem imo. They could have asked "hey we have internet issues", would it be possible to finish the set sunday or something. No, they said, okay we are out. Leaving viewers, casters, sponsors without content. All AoE2 tournament rule books heavily penalize giving admin losses with prizemoney loss. Since the qualifiers don't have prizemoney on the line in this event, that obviously means nothing for the players. And once again: what prevents from players doing this again in a future event?

Regarding the argument about: "at least they showed up". I do hope that in the future players that are troublesome with scheduling and arriving on time will suffer from penalties. YES. I know noone is a fulltime player, they have jobs, etc. It is fine. Yet if you confirmed a time, you gotta attend it. In King of The Hippo 14++ players playing for $250 prizemoney ALL arrived on time. They also have jobs. They also have school. The problem is that it seems that many believe it is all right to screw up scheduling and constantly ask for delays. I am very flexible whenever possible: as an example when Nili asked if he can show the recorded POV of his games the same time as the cast goes, I said yes, and in fact scheduled the cast of that series to make sure it doesnt clash with the showmatch he wanted to play the same day. If they asked "hey, sorry we have internet problem, and our backup isnt available, can we figure something out to play sunday or so", we probably would have tried finding a solution. But instead, they decided to forfeit, taking a spot in the qualifiers from another team that may have at least delivered games to the viewers, sponsors. And such a thing ruins tournament experience for many, tens of casters, viewers asking what happened to other series. This happened. Forfeits all over the place. We are esports baby? Imagine if the Hidden Cup 3 main event would have had 3 forfeits because they couldnt find a time to play. Is it different? It is not. The magnitude of the event may be bigger there, but regardless, players giving multiple forfeits in sponsored events hurts competitive AoE, since sponsors will be less likely to contribute if they get half the games they were promised because of all the forfeits. You could say "it is only 3 forfeits tho". Yes, its 3 for now. Maybe 5 in the next event. Maybe 10 after. What will prevent such a things from happening if not regulations?

This to me is a really sad day as well, since I personally had good relations with many of the players involved in this, and it hurts my reputation as a tournament host quite badly as well. But it cannot be expected that deadlines can always be expanded because of things happening. That being said, I am willing to reconsider my opinion on the ban of these players on my future events after a personal discussion with them on the matter, in case they can ensure that such a thing does not happen again.
I do believe a ban is a harsh punishment, but there needs to be more professionalism from the players.

I am fairly certain many will hate me know, and believe I am an arrogant jerk. You have the right to do that, but maybe some day you consider my point, if you consider that an entire day of casting was ruined (not just for me, but all casters) because of multiple forfeits. I certainly hope players will think this over themselves, and be a bit more mindful about tournaments, and only sign up for something they really want to commit their time and effort to prepare, read rules, schedule and appear on time.

With this being said, let us please try to close the drama over here, and get ready for the main event of the tournament, since the main focus should be on the positives to come. The qualifiers that were played yielded extremely entertaining games, and people should be looking forward to the games of the main event.

If anyone is still wishing to have a discussion about this, I am more than happy to answer questions in direct messages.

On not asking for Sunday, we did ask.

I apologized to Chrazini for being rude at that moment as I was heated, but there just were no alternatives provided.

 

[ballink]

All right, let's clean things up.

First of all, I am probably the most disappointed in the situation. As a caster, I want to see games being played. I am trying to be as flexible as possible, but sometimes things won't turn out the way that everybody likes it.

My main question about future ban: if I say: "hey its okay", what prevents this from happening again? Sponsors (regardless of who it is) want to see content for their money. We had 3 forfeits out of 8 decider sets in a tournament. Raise your hand if you think it is normal. Imagine you donate a bunch of money for an event, and then half the players just say in the last second "sorry we can't play". The playing times were well known for a long time, it was published the same time as the announcement.

Yes, one player had internet issues, that is unfortunate. Normally, it would be fine to try and extend it. The attitude is the problem imo. They could have asked "hey we have internet issues", would it be possible to finish the set sunday or something. No, they said, okay we are out. Leaving viewers, casters, sponsors without content. All AoE2 tournament rule books heavily penalize giving admin losses with prizemoney loss. Since the qualifiers don't have prizemoney on the line in this event, that obviously means nothing for the players. And once again: what prevents from players doing this again in a future event?

Regarding the argument about: "at least they showed up". I do hope that in the future players that are troublesome with scheduling and arriving on time will suffer from penalties. YES. I know noone is a fulltime player, they have jobs, etc. It is fine. Yet if you confirmed a time, you gotta attend it. In King of The Hippo 14++ players playing for $250 prizemoney ALL arrived on time. They also have jobs. They also have school. The problem is that it seems that many believe it is all right to screw up scheduling and constantly ask for delays. I am very flexible whenever possible: as an example when Nili asked if he can show the recorded POV of his games the same time as the cast goes, I said yes, and in fact scheduled the cast of that series to make sure it doesnt clash with the showmatch he wanted to play the same day. If they asked "hey, sorry we have internet problem, and our backup isnt available, can we figure something out to play sunday or so", we probably would have tried finding a solution. But instead, they decided to forfeit, taking a spot in the qualifiers from another team that may have at least delivered games to the viewers, sponsors. And such a thing ruins tournament experience for many, tens of casters, viewers asking what happened to other series. This happened. Forfeits all over the place. We are esports baby? Imagine if the Hidden Cup 3 main event would have had 3 forfeits because they couldnt find a time to play. Is it different? It is not. The magnitude of the event may be bigger there, but regardless, players giving multiple forfeits in sponsored events hurts competitive AoE, since sponsors will be less likely to contribute if they get half the games they were promised because of all the forfeits. You could say "it is only 3 forfeits tho". Yes, its 3 for now. Maybe 5 in the next event. Maybe 10 after. What will prevent such a things from happening if not regulations?

This to me is a really sad day as well, since I personally had good relations with many of the players involved in this, and it hurts my reputation as a tournament host quite badly as well. But it cannot be expected that deadlines can always be expanded because of things happening. That being said, I am willing to reconsider my opinion on the ban of these players on my future events after a personal discussion with them on the matter, in case they can ensure that such a thing does not happen again.
I do believe a ban is a harsh punishment, but there needs to be more professionalism from the players.

I am fairly certain many will hate me know, and believe I am an arrogant jerk. You have the right to do that, but maybe some day you consider my point, if you consider that an entire day of casting was ruined (not just for me, but all casters) because of multiple forfeits. I certainly hope players will think this over themselves, and be a bit more mindful about tournaments, and only sign up for something they really want to commit their time and effort to prepare, read rules, schedule and appear on time.

With this being said, let us please try to close the drama over here, and get ready for the main event of the tournament, since the main focus should be on the positives to come. The qualifiers that were played yielded extremely entertaining games, and people should be looking forward to the games of the main event.

If anyone is still wishing to have a discussion about this, I am more than happy to answer questions in direct messages.

You clear made no effort to rearrange the matches. You compare this tournament to Hidden Cup, do you think T90 would have just done nothing then start crying on forums and stream? No he could have contacted played and arranged a new time. Don’t complain about professionalism when you don’t even know what is happening in your own tournament..

 

[ballink]

On not asking for Sunday, we did ask.

I apologized to Chrazini for being rude at that moment as I was heated, but there just were no alternatives provided.

View attachment 190900

This just shows even more that he has no idea what is happening in his own tournament.

 

[Spawn]

All right, let's clean things up.

First of all, I am probably the most disappointed in the situation. As a caster, I want to see games being played. I am trying to be as flexible as possible, but sometimes things won't turn out the way that everybody likes it.

My main question about future ban: if I say: "hey its okay", what prevents this from happening again? Sponsors (regardless of who it is) want to see content for their money. We had 3 forfeits out of 8 decider sets in a tournament. Raise your hand if you think it is normal. Imagine you donate a bunch of money for an event, and then half the players just say in the last second "sorry we can't play". The playing times were well known for a long time, it was published the same time as the announcement.

Yes, one player had internet issues, that is unfortunate. Normally, it would be fine to try and extend it. The attitude is the problem imo. They could have asked "hey we have internet issues", would it be possible to finish the set sunday or something. No, they said, okay we are out. Leaving viewers, casters, sponsors without content. All AoE2 tournament rule books heavily penalize giving admin losses with prizemoney loss. Since the qualifiers don't have prizemoney on the line in this event, that obviously means nothing for the players. And once again: what prevents from players doing this again in a future event?

Regarding the argument about: "at least they showed up". I do hope that in the future players that are troublesome with scheduling and arriving on time will suffer from penalties. YES. I know noone is a fulltime player, they have jobs, etc. It is fine. Yet if you confirmed a time, you gotta attend it. In King of The Hippo 14++ players playing for $250 prizemoney ALL arrived on time. They also have jobs. They also have school. The problem is that it seems that many believe it is all right to screw up scheduling and constantly ask for delays. I am very flexible whenever possible: as an example when Nili asked if he can show the recorded POV of his games the same time as the cast goes, I said yes, and in fact scheduled the cast of that series to make sure it doesnt clash with the showmatch he wanted to play the same day. If they asked "hey, sorry we have internet problem, and our backup isnt available, can we figure something out to play sunday or so", we probably would have tried finding a solution. But instead, they decided to forfeit, taking a spot in the qualifiers from another team that may have at least delivered games to the viewers, sponsors. And such a thing ruins tournament experience for many, tens of casters, viewers asking what happened to other series. This happened. Forfeits all over the place. We are esports baby? Imagine if the Hidden Cup 3 main event would have had 3 forfeits because they couldnt find a time to play. Is it different? It is not. The magnitude of the event may be bigger there, but regardless, players giving multiple forfeits in sponsored events hurts competitive AoE, since sponsors will be less likely to contribute if they get half the games they were promised because of all the forfeits. You could say "it is only 3 forfeits tho". Yes, its 3 for now. Maybe 5 in the next event. Maybe 10 after. What will prevent such a things from happening if not regulations?

This to me is a really sad day as well, since I personally had good relations with many of the players involved in this, and it hurts my reputation as a tournament host quite badly as well. But it cannot be expected that deadlines can always be expanded because of things happening. That being said, I am willing to reconsider my opinion on the ban of these players on my future events after a personal discussion with them on the matter, in case they can ensure that such a thing does not happen again.
I do believe a ban is a harsh punishment, but there needs to be more professionalism from the players.

I am fairly certain many will hate me know, and believe I am an arrogant jerk. You have the right to do that, but maybe some day you consider my point, if you consider that an entire day of casting was ruined (not just for me, but all casters) because of multiple forfeits. I certainly hope players will think this over themselves, and be a bit more mindful about tournaments, and only sign up for something they really want to commit their time and effort to prepare, read rules, schedule and appear on time.

With this being said, let us please try to close the drama over here, and get ready for the main event of the tournament, since the main focus should be on the positives to come. The qualifiers that were played yielded extremely entertaining games, and people should be looking forward to the games of the main event.

If anyone is still wishing to have a discussion about this, I am more than happy to answer questions in direct messages.

Disappointing to see wall of text statement without any true reflection on your own actions after you publicly chastised the players on stream with what is seems to be coming out as out of context information as well.

 

[LidaKor]

You clear made no effort to rearrange the matches. You compare this tournament to Hidden Cup, do you think T90 would have just done nothing then start crying on forums and stream? No he could have contacted played and arranged a new time. Don’t complain about professionalism when you don’t even know what is happening in your own tournament..

Do you think T90 would have moved the semifinals two days later lets say, which he was advertising for 3 months because of this? Probably no. Remember hidden Cup 2 where Liereyy couldnt play? Was it moved. No it wasnt.
In fact, I considered moving the games to monday tuesday. But that a) would overlap with hera/Liereyy showmatch which is problematic for all casters b) Would give very short time for the next round to be played. You can say "push back next round as well". As mentioned above, the tournament caledar restricts me. We had confirmed times for the event half a year ago. We cant just push it back 2 weeks, because the other events in the calendar are based on timeframes of twopools.

2. I did not come to cry to the forums. This is an announcement about admin decisions, because people were asking what is up. In fact, I did not want to disclose ANY of this, but then people were asking "why no transparency".

 

[LidaKor]

This just shows even more that he has no idea what is happening in his own tournament.

I cant and not even supposed to see scheduling threads, since that would contain spoilers about the previous round's results. Thats the way every tournament host is doing it.

 

[archxeon]

Some posters on public forums (like aoezone) cross the lines at times but when players and streamers keep doing this **** and then when they get criticized for doing exactly what they do, the forum gets a bad name.

The least one could do is think it over and decide on a fresh mind before making a decision like giving an admin win or banning players from all future tournaments.

 

[gambasimo95]

To be fair, Lidakor doesn't know what happened during games for preventing spoilers and making his cast more "real" like T90 did.

 

[nevhil]

what about KGB clan, why did they get AL?

 

[LidaKor]

what about KGB clan, why did they get AL?

They couldnt schedule/appear on time. As stated in the long post above, we cant expand this round further since that would not give time for main event first round to be played.

 

[ballink]

To be fair, Lidakor doesn't know what happened during games for preventing spoilers and making his cast more "real" like T90 did.

If he doesn’t know what happened why is he making accusations? He says they didn’t ask for admin time which the they. He says they didn’t ask to play on Sunday which they did. I think we all agree it’s an unfortunate situation, what turns us against him is that he is falsely accusing players and threatening them.

 

[LidaKor]

Disappointing to see wall of text statement without any true reflection on your own actions after you publicly chastised the players on stream with what is seems to be coming out as out of context information as well.

I just added a part in the long topic on "my" actions. I suggest you read it and think that part over as well. Like why there is 6 days to schedule games

 

[Manu]

2. I did not come to cry to the forums. This is an announcement about admin decisions, because people were asking what is up. In fact, I did not want to disclose ANY of this, but then people were asking "why no transparency".

You should have left it at an announcement, and that would have been it.