I remember a lot of come backs from ancient legends, on game park they got 1800 on igzones 1700, take ruso as example from 2600 to 1900 in voobly, abe the best old mexican from 2300 to 1800 in voobly, great players from the past had a hard time adapting to the faster and evolved meta, well even jordan from 2700 voobly to 2200 voobly 2 years later, when you see those cases and believe me there are plenty more, instead of remember or ranking a player for one or two good years, you have to take into consideration the other years and the most recent especially since the game level keeps increasing.
Alot of the koreans played in the same cybercafe, Koven, Grunt, RD_Champion + many others. kkab said in a post they often were 30 2k players hanging there all day so they propably got training from one of their friends so its easier to remember who, while western players learned from eachother from forums, record games,ingame etc. so they were kinda more selfmade and did not have one spesific trainer learning them the basics of the game.
Same with top Taiwan players, all from same cybercafe, makes it easier to become good when you learn from everyone around you.
The best and most legendary tournament that daut won and was trained by kkab, was the Master of the huns, somehow it doesn't appear on his profile, clash of titans he was third...We certainly have something to add to DauT's list of best tournament achievements.
Excellent summary of Daut style, at least back then. (Not following aoc scene last few years) I remember when I joined wW clan, here_Iam_ and me had some good love/hate relationship since he taught me how to play. During our lessons (which were basically duels where he beat the **** out of me) we sometimes analyzed recs of other players. Or rather, one player. It was Daut. I remember Funito vs Daut games were exactly how you describe them. To add to what you said, Daut had very distinct way of walling map, kinda minimalistic yet it brought a lot of safety. One could learn a lot by watching his games. And back then without streams and many tournaments, each rec was like little treat to players.Back in the day what I recall about Daut, his style was very effective vs rushers (assume we mean feudal) was because Daut had a seriously good understanding of map. Present and future issues. And I mean the whole map, not just his. He also didn’t make many mistakes vs rushers, and some rushers made mistakes which Daut took advantage of. Daut was very patient that way and didn’t panic, overreacting to the rush. Then yes, macro and way he managed economy if game hit castle come into play much more. That’s all I recall since I haven’t watched those games from Daut since I was around 1600 that time. Would have to revisit, just working from memory.
Excellent summary of Daut style, at least back then. (Not following aoc scene last few years) I remember when I joined wW clan, here_Iam_ and me had some good love/hate relationship since he taught me how to play. During our lessons (which were basically duels where he beat the **** out of me) we sometimes analyzed recs of other players. Or rather, one player. It was Daut. I remember Funito vs Daut games were exactly how you describe them. To add to what you said, Daut had very distinct way of walling map, kinda minimalistic yet it brought a lot of safety. One could learn a lot by watching his games. And back then without streams and many tournaments, each rec was like little treat to players.
@ ages old debate "old vs new pros". I think, as I always did, that it does not matter that playstale is more "advanced" or "nuanced" (call it whatever you want) now than it was before. If you wanted to be top player before, you needed exactly same qualities that you need now. (hard to specify which qualities tho) Meta has evolved but top player is top player never the less. It kinda reminds me people discussing if contemporary people are more intelligent than people in the past. They think that because 5 year old can use smartphone. From my knowledge, I would say that level of ingenuity/intelligence of ancient people is on par with contemporaries. I basically see no difference. (well sometimes I think of us being actually inferior lulz)
The game has evolved a lot, so the criteria to rank players will never be accurate and specially most players will never agree with it since they will have their preferences according to their best times with the game.
Viper changed the game, a pro player before viper was good at micro or macro, after viper to be in the fight you had to be good at both, only jordan managed to follow him in that revolutionary year.
From 2016 thanks to lierey the game went even further a top player and contender would have to be a micro maniac in order to compete with the snake, viper quickly adapted to the insane micro and gave us as result the best micro intense fights were ballistics is ignored and counter units, fast response and the fastest reaction ever seen.
Only mbl, hera and tatoh have adapted to that heavy game play, while mr yo unable to compete in such micro intense scenarios has polished the rush strats to put their enemy outside their field having a solid macro game play.
So having that in mind mbl or tatoh are miles away of any older legend, basically any new top player is faster and stronger than the old experts could ever be, if you study a rec from 2004 from the very best of that year, you only see big exchanges of army, not micro well not even patrolling, tons of iddles, poor macro with the exception of daut, so if it was up to me any old player before 2005 should be ranked in a honorable list, since the skills were not even remotely close to what we have now.
"basically any new top player is faster and stronger than the old experts could ever be" Look at Chris channel and see how fast he is.The game has evolved a lot, so the criteria to rank players will never be accurate and specially most players will never agree with it since they will have their preferences according to their best times with the game.
Viper changed the game, a pro player before viper was good at micro or macro, after viper to be in the fight you had to be good at both, only jordan managed to follow him in that revolutionary year.
From 2016 thanks to lierey the game went even further a top player and contender would have to be a micro maniac in order to compete with the snake, viper quickly adapted to the insane micro and gave us as result the best micro intense fights were ballistics is ignored and counter units, fast response and the fastest reaction ever seen.
Only mbl, hera and tatoh have adapted to that heavy game play, while mr yo unable to compete in such micro intense scenarios has polished the rush strats to put their enemy outside their field having a solid macro game play.
So having that in mind mbl or tatoh are miles away of any older legend, basically any new top player is faster and stronger than the old experts could ever be, if you study a rec from 2004 from the very best of that year, you only see big exchanges of army, not micro well not even patrolling, tons of iddles, poor macro with the exception of daut, so if it was up to me any old player before 2005 should be ranked in a honorable list, since the skills were not even remotely close to what we have now.
I believe all of them are retired these days. At least from playing games professionally? For specifics:Does anyone has informations what the top players from korea doing today?
That’s wrong dude. Tatoh has been playing aoe2 for a long time. I can’t tell if KM Ator was his first nickname. But around 2008-2010 he improved very fast, reaching 2k2 from 1600-1700 in a matter of 1 year (perhaps my time perception is incorrect). After that he left playing that intense and go inactive for some years, just playing sometimes with friends in 1.0 and 1.0c on IRC; far away from the competitive scene (even inactive he remained 2k and was able to kill an active 1900 easily). He started playing again more active in 2011 and quickly his level started to boom, but still was “undercover” playing on IRC at theconquerors.es for casual -we form a casual team named IRC to play some voobly tourneys and with tatoh's help, we almost qualify for a main event after winning a set against Tim’s team but loosing against PoJ team, good memories playing at my 4AM against a Japanese team- . Then I left playing in 2012, and when I started playing again in 2018, he was a top player and became part of tyrant A team. Even though he has been talented since day 1 he played AoE, it took him a long way to reach the top elite.hera was a 2.4k player before even tatoh was playing on voobly and last year he has been playing non stop, only mbl plays the same, while tatoh last year wasn't really active like the previous year, so make no mistake hera has his years playing the game and his achivements are close to mbl and tatoh who have also beaten the snake in 1x1 tournaments.
You just answered yourself, tatoh was active before sure i know that, that is why i put "before even tatoh was playing on voobly" back at those years tatoh was more active on the HD, in fact he became popular being the ultimate top 1 player on that game version while the normal experts were grinding on voobly.That’s wrong dude. Tatoh has been playing aoe2 for a long time. I can’t tell if KM Ator was his first nickname. But around 2008-2010 he improved very fast, reaching 2k2 from 1600-1700 in a matter of 1 year (perhaps my time perception is incorrect). After that he left playing that intense and go inactive for some years, just playing sometimes with friends in 1.0 and 1.0c on IRC; far away from the competitive scene (even inactive he remained 2k and was able to kill an active 1900 easily). He started playing again more active in 2011 and quickly his level started to boom, but still was “undercover” playing on IRC at theconquerors.es for casual -we form a casual team named IRC to play some voobly tourneys and with tatoh's help, we almost qualify for a main event after winning a set against Tim’s team but loosing against PoJ team, good memories playing at my 4AM against a Japanese team- . Then I left playing in 2012, and when I started playing again in 2018, he was a top player and became part of tyrant A team. Even though he was been talented since day 1 he played AoE, it took him a long way to reach the top elite.
Mmmm, Hera become a top-10 player long time after Tatoh was already a top 15 player (at least). Tatoh use to play in voobly / IGZ since at least 13/14 years. Perhaps most of the community didn't know him, and he wasn't a top player, but he was already a 2k2, but wasn't active enough to reach his peak.You just answered yourself, tatoh was active before sure i know that, that is why i put "before even tatoh was playing on voobly" back at those years tatoh was more active on the HD, in fact he became popular being the ultimate top 1 player on that game version while the normal experts were grinding on voobly.
So there is nothing wrong there, tatoh was a good player back then but not a 2.4k-2.5k player like hera was, the best years of tatoh were when hera wasn't active and when hera was a top voobly player tatoh wasn't active on that platform.
Hera was not even considered top 10 during ECL or NAC2 neither Villese or Vinch. They had their breakout later. ECL finals was Hera's breakout.Mmmm, Hera become a top-10 player long time after Tatoh was already a top 15 player (at least). Tatoh use to play in voobly / IGZ since at least 13/14 years. Perhaps most of the community didn't know him, and he wasn't a top player, but he was already a 2k2, but wasn't active enough to reach his peak.
When Hera reach the top 10, Tatoh was already there, my point is that you argued Hera became first a top 10 player before even Tatoh were in the scene, but, its completely the opposite.