I'm afraid but the list makes no sense to me.
Who are you afraid of, son?
I'm afraid but the list makes no sense to me.
You have to realise that you can't compare straight up one to one tournament victories and prize money between the mid 2000s and the late 2010s. If you could, this list would have no point: just look at prize money earned on e sports earnings and call it a day.Just look at these 5 i copied together:
23. Nicov
Alternate IDs shadowplay_, Kalashnicov Name Nicolás Bruno Year of Birth 1992 Teams/Clans aM Recurrent team partners MbL, Hera, Liereyy, Hearttt Tournament activity 2013-present Best tournament achievements Battle of Africa 2 (2020) 1v1 tournament 1st places 2 TG tournament 1st places 8 Total cash prize earned $23,059 Links esportsearnings | aoe-elo | voobly | aoe2.net | gameplay
22. BacT
Alternate IDs bacgioifro, 8euro Name Ha Bien Year of Birth - Teams/Clans TyRanT, VNA, VNS Recurrent team partners ACCM, RiuT, slam Tournament activity 2013-present Best tournament achievements ECL Middle East 1v1 (2018), Clan Masters Invitational (2015), runner-up in War is Coming (2015) 1v1 tournament 1st places 7 TG tournament 1st places 1 Total cash prize earned $22,371 Links esportsearnings | aoe-elo | voobly | aoe2.net | gameplay
20. Windy
Alternate IDs SWJ_Windy Name - Year of Birth - Teams/Clans SWJ, SY Recurrent team partners Cloudy Tournament activity 2003-2004; 2013 Best tournament achievements FOPT Arabia Masters (2003) 1v1 tournament 1st places 1 TG tournament 1st places 0 Total cash prize earned $1,935 Links esportsearnings | aoe-elo | voobly | aoe2.net | gameplay
19. MbL
Alternate IDs MbL40C Name Morten Levernes Year of Birth 1994 Teams/Clans aM Recurrent team partners Nicov, Hera, Liereyy, Hearttt Tournament activity 2015-present Best tournament achievements Battle of Africa 2 (2020) 1v1 tournament 1st places 2 TG tournament 1st places 9 Total cash prize earned $34,931 Links esportsearnings | aoe-elo | voobly | aoe2.net | gameplay
16. TaToH
Alternate IDs Rob3rStinson Name Roberto Jiménez Year of Birth 1989 Teams/Clans WolfpacK, TyRanT, Secret, Gamer Legion Recurrent team partners Viper, DauT, JorDan Tournament activity 2014-present Best tournament achievements Battle of Africa (2018), ECL LAN finals (2019) 1v1 tournament 1st places 13 TG tournament 1st places 9 Total cash prize earned $44,869 Links esportsearnings | aoe-elo | voobly | aoe2.net | gameplay
15. IORI
Alternate IDs BsK_KISS, _MyST_IORI Name Year of Birth Teams/Clans BsK, MyST Recurrent team partners BT4 Tournament activity 2004-2008; 2017 Best tournament achievements WCL 4 (2005) 1v1 tournament 1st places 0 TG tournament 1st places 1 Total cash prize earned $3,231 Links esportsearnings | aoe-elo | voobly | aoe2.net
So i'm just gonna get straight to the point: this list just seems extremly biased towards dinosaurs. How on earth is it justified that Windy is 20th, only won one tournament, was tournament-active for a year and $1,935, while Nicov/Bact where far longer active, won over 10 times more money and tournaments? Similar stuff about IORI and Tatoh/MBL. IORI won one tournament, while MBl won 10+, Tatoh even 20. Both won over 10 times more money and were longer active. I'm afraid but the list makes no sense to me.
I think most people here know that TaToH was in TyRanT lolThat also means that Hera made it to the top level in a shorter amount of time than TaToH and MbL, which in turn also kinda makes Hera... better than them two?!?
I did remember TaToH looong ramblings and slow-but-steady progression on the Voobly 1v1 ladder and in tournaments results, way before he was in TyRanT
(yep, he was in TyRanT lol. For the newcomers, TyRanT was the ancestor of Secret, and Secret the ancestor of GL). I was one of his biggest fanbois back then.
MbL had a similar progression than Hera to be honest, he went very good very fast.
I remember him around 2015 (he was 20-21 back then) kicking miguel ass off on balance patch tourney (varied map pool), going full berserks vs miguel Hun Paladins.
3rd in WCG 2001Guys like mimmox, yanzi doesn't deserve to be there, unless you talking of 2003-2004 achievements not the greatest ever.
The sheriff is not there and he invented or did first every single strategy you see now.
Guys like mimmox, yanzi doesn't deserve to be there, unless you talking of 2003-2004 achievements not the greatest ever.
Alive and cyclops have been in top 10 and even top 1 for some time for more years than any other player in aoe, even more than daut and see their places on their list, outranked by 1 or 2 years players, so you tell me whyplayers that have adapted to the new meta have evolved with the game and kept their top level should have less recognition than one guy that was good with skirms in 2003 and when that old top player cameback few years later they couldn't even get 2k(most of them).
Just look at these 5 i copied together:
23. Nicov
Alternate IDs shadowplay_, Kalashnicov Name Nicolás Bruno Year of Birth 1992 Teams/Clans aM Recurrent team partners MbL, Hera, Liereyy, Hearttt Tournament activity 2013-present Best tournament achievements Battle of Africa 2 (2020) 1v1 tournament 1st places 2 TG tournament 1st places 8 Total cash prize earned $23,059 Links esportsearnings | aoe-elo | voobly | aoe2.net | gameplay
22. BacT
Alternate IDs bacgioifro, 8euro Name Ha Bien Year of Birth - Teams/Clans TyRanT, VNA, VNS Recurrent team partners ACCM, RiuT, slam Tournament activity 2013-present Best tournament achievements ECL Middle East 1v1 (2018), Clan Masters Invitational (2015), runner-up in War is Coming (2015) 1v1 tournament 1st places 7 TG tournament 1st places 1 Total cash prize earned $22,371 Links esportsearnings | aoe-elo | voobly | aoe2.net | gameplay
20. Windy
Alternate IDs SWJ_Windy Name - Year of Birth - Teams/Clans SWJ, SY Recurrent team partners Cloudy Tournament activity 2003-2004; 2013 Best tournament achievements FOPT Arabia Masters (2003) 1v1 tournament 1st places 1 TG tournament 1st places 0 Total cash prize earned $1,935 Links esportsearnings | aoe-elo | voobly | aoe2.net | gameplay
19. MbL
Alternate IDs MbL40C Name Morten Levernes Year of Birth 1994 Teams/Clans aM Recurrent team partners Nicov, Hera, Liereyy, Hearttt Tournament activity 2015-present Best tournament achievements Battle of Africa 2 (2020) 1v1 tournament 1st places 2 TG tournament 1st places 9 Total cash prize earned $34,931 Links esportsearnings | aoe-elo | voobly | aoe2.net | gameplay
16. TaToH
Alternate IDs Rob3rStinson Name Roberto Jiménez Year of Birth 1989 Teams/Clans WolfpacK, TyRanT, Secret, Gamer Legion Recurrent team partners Viper, DauT, JorDan Tournament activity 2014-present Best tournament achievements Battle of Africa (2018), ECL LAN finals (2019) 1v1 tournament 1st places 13 TG tournament 1st places 9 Total cash prize earned $44,869 Links esportsearnings | aoe-elo | voobly | aoe2.net | gameplay
15. IORI
Alternate IDs BsK_KISS, _MyST_IORI Name Year of Birth Teams/Clans BsK, MyST Recurrent team partners BT4 Tournament activity 2004-2008; 2017 Best tournament achievements WCL 4 (2005) 1v1 tournament 1st places 0 TG tournament 1st places 1 Total cash prize earned $3,231 Links esportsearnings | aoe-elo | voobly | aoe2.net
So i'm just gonna get straight to the point: this list just seems extremly biased towards dinosaurs. How on earth is it justified that Windy is 20th, only won one tournament, was tournament-active for a year and $1,935, while Nicov/Bact where far longer active, won over 10 times more money and tournaments? Similar stuff about IORI and Tatoh/MBL. IORI won one tournament, while MBl won 10+, Tatoh even 20. Both won over 10 times more money and were longer active. I'm afraid but the list makes no sense to me.
This is the central idea to me as well. I feel that for the most part there is a big difference between a player that at whatever point in time is fighting for #1 and a player that is fighting for #10, I think it makes sense that a list of the best players features players that fought for #1 at their prime time.W
Windy and Iori have a legit claim at being the best player in the world at one point. Both of them competed with, and beat Daut when everybody thought he was the best. If we were going to make a team of the best TG players of all time, Windy would have a good shot at making it.
None of those other guys have ever been #1 (unless it's happened pretty recently).
The Creative Mind | "Grunt was already an AoE2 player when he became an apprentice of Koven. Under his wing, Grunt evolved into a more clever, efficient player. He became solid in all aspects of the game, notably macro and economy. He immediately recognized what was required for survival in bad situations and adapted appropriately. His quick wit, brilliance, and creative thinking helped him win games. At some point in time, Grunt decided to play in tournaments. Although he was inactive for months or even a year, when he competed in a tournament, he trained hard for the event. Grunt won the Microsoft International and Legion Cup 1, and generally placed second or third in other tournaments. The Microsoft International was particularly special, because Grunt was the only player who did 22 pop scout rushes. He used this strategy in the final match. His expert handling of the 22 pop scout rush was the reason he won the event. He walked away with the largest 1v1 prize pool in AoE2 history. In 2004-2006, Grunt participated in WCL Tournaments where his team won three events. After WCL 4 ended in 2006, Grunt temporarily left AoE2 and started playing Rise of Nations: Rise of Legends. There he became the number one player. Following Rise of Nations, he played AoE3 and competed in the WCG 2007 Tournament in which he won a gold medal. Since Grunt had previously won a gold medal in another tournament, and he had two gold medals, he was eligible for induction into the Hall of Fame." - Rayne and Funito |
Alternate IDs | BsK_erer_s, iamgrunt, wargrunt_kr, __Mossar |
Name | Kang Byung Geon |
Year of Birth | 1983 |
Teams/Clans | BsK, TyRanT |
Recurrent team partners | Halen, kkab |
Tournament activity | 2001-2006; 2011 |
Best tournament achievements | Microsoft International Tournament (2001) |
1v1 tournament 1st places | 3 |
TG tournament 1st places | 5 |
Total cash prize earned | $74,430 |
Links | esportsearnings | aoe-elo | voobly | aoe2.net | gameplay |
--------------------------------- The Explorer | "A legendary player, Halen was on the famous BsK team back in the MSzone days. He participated in the WCG 2002, which was the biggest tournament that year. He won without losing a single game. In the tournament, Halen’s Feudal Age was unique. He used a stable forward and later added archers in some games. In those days that was a distinctive style of play. He had great micro, killed villagers in many spots, and got an advantage. Halen’s biggest strength, however, was in the Castle Age. He frequently made many TCs to boom, amassed a huge economy and villager lead. This increased an advantage that was usually obtained earlier when he advanced to Castle Age first. His macro worked great with this style of play. He kept up the villager and military production, maintained an economic equilibrium, and raided his opponent all at the same time. The rest was history for anyone behind in the game. After the tournament, Halen retired from AoE2, played Age of Mythology for about a year, and then returned to AoE2 in 2004. Back at AoE2, he played TGs with friends and became one of the best TG players. Halen and other BsK players (Grunt, kkab, Koven, and Yanzi) won three of the WCL tournaments." - Rayne and Funito |
Alternate IDs | poZ_Ray, _oN_Silva_ |
Name | Akihiro Nakamura |
Year of Birth | - |
Teams/Clans | CNS, BsK, poZ, TyRanT |
Recurrent team partners | grunt, kkab, Koven, Chun_Yu |
Tournament activity | 2001-2007; 2011 |
Best tournament achievements | WCG 2002 |
1v1 tournament 1st places | 4 |
TG tournament 1st places | 3 |
Total cash prize earned | $33,987 |
Links | esportsearnings | aoe-elo | voobly | aoe2.net | gameplay |
The Situationist | "As far as names go, Chris was the player who will always be remembered. Versatile and highly intelligent, he played all settings. Yet he was mostly known for being a forwarder on Arabia with the Huns. During MSzone, two RM players achieved a rating over 2600: Chris and Daut. They were the strongest and the most competitive players during those years. An intense rivalry developed between them. For example, Chris issued a Best of 21 Challenge to Daut. The winner would be considered “King of AoE2.” For Chris, Arabia with the Huns was where he excelled as a forwarder. He did 22 pop forwards, and over time he became a situationist. Certain factors influenced him such as map, opponent’s style, and meta of the time. This made Chris more skillful at the game. In addition, he had great macro, controlled the economy well, exploited mistakes, and adapted accordingly. He successfully defended himself in the worst situations. Chris was virtually invincible in the Huns war. If that wasn’t enough, Chris was an AoE2 pioneer. He had ideas no one else did: no loom in Dark Age until he researched the Feudal Age, and he invented the 21 pop build order. While other methods faded, Chris’ ideas withstood time. Eventually the game changed and moved in his direction." - Rayne |
Alternate IDs | L_Clan_Chris, IamChris, Thewanderer, GTL_Chris |
Name | Chris Bourque |
Year of Birth | 1988 |
Teams/Clans | RVK, Wolfpack, Legion Clan, Infinity Legends |
Recurrent team partners | Capoch, Buddha, Bender |
Tournament activity | 2001-2017, 2020-present |
Best tournament achievements | Arbalet Cup 4 (2007) |
1v1 tournament 1st places | 14 |
TG tournament 1st places | 3 |
Total cash prize earned | $38,843 |
Links | esportsearnings | aoe-elo | voobly | aoe2.net | gameplay |
The Eternal Legend | sieste - Why do you think participants chose Daut? What are his strengths and weaknesses as a player? TheViper - Daut is one of the all time greats. His strengths are his macro, strategy and decision making (except when to drop castles). Whenever there are new civs, new game modes and new maps he will always come up with an interesting idea or approach. What are his biggest achievements in the game in your opinion? Definitely the longevity of his success. After all this time he's still achieving and competing at the top, top level. When you first arrived in the competitive scene, what did you think of Daut, what was his status? I didn't really know what to think of him, as he didn't talk much at all and wasn't an active figure, bar playing. It was a completely different landscape as there wasn't streaming, there wasn't discord and all these areas for the community where you got to know each other better. Only place was pretty much Aoczone, and he wasn't active there either. How would you say his play style evolved since then? It is fairly similar to what it was at the time. His ability to macro under pressure is what everyone was talking about back then, and although he has adapted to the times, his playstyle remained consistent. What do you learn from him? I would say my playstyle is quite similar to his all things considered. When I entered the scene he was the best, so I did look to his games to learn. In general, I never really studied games in extreme detail, but I watched many Daut games back then to see what he was doing. His overall gameplay was impressive to me. How different as a player would you be if he was not your teammate? I think I would be quite the same still even if he wasn't my teammate, probably would have more hair. I think our brains work well together though, so when we merge thoughts and ideas, we come up with really good strategies and approaches sometimes. We've played one 2v2 tournament together in our life where we actually prepared together properly, and we won that tournament. I think when we are serious together, we are a really good team, but that's rare (laughs) |
Alternate IDs | ArgoNaut_GoKu_, CsI_Vegeta_, IamDauT, L_Clan_Shmeker |
Name | Darko Dautovic |
Year of Birth | 1985 |
Teams/Clans | ArgoNaut, CsI, Legion Clan, TyRanT, Secret, Gamer Legion |
Recurrent team partners | Rami, Viper, kkab, JorDan_23 |
Tournament activity | 2002-present |
Best tournament achievements | Brain Champion Cup 2 (2009), War Is Coming (2015) |
1v1 tournament 1st places | 14 |
TG tournament 1st places | 13 |
Total cash prize earned | $89,912 |
Links | esportsearnings | aoe-elo | voobly | aoe2.net | gameplay |
The Greatest of All Time (the jury has decided) | "TheViper has played Age of Empires for a long time before getting interested in competing. Starting from custom Lord of the Rings scenarios and Land Nomad team games, he progressively switched to Arabia 1v1 in 2011, steadily climbing his way up the ladder. Winning his first tournaments in 2012, TheViper has since become the most dominant player in the history of the game. In addition to his long tournament experience at the highest level, TheViper is a pure archetype of a complete player with great macro, micro and decision making. TheViper is a patient player, who excels at defending and saving gold for the late game, where his superior macro, map awareness and positional play enables him to take the win. Perhaps more than any other player, TheViper offers very little to his opponents, and turns enemy mistakes into a game-deciding advantage." - Tarsiz "When Viper became quite famous around 2011 he was more of a team game player than 1vs1. Then around July of that year he started playing 1vs1. By October he was around 2300, and by March 2012 he was already at the peak level a player ever played his game and of course #1 on the ranked ladder. Watching him improve so fast, faster than any player ever did, was a preamble of what he was going to be. He was probably the first player to dominate every aspect of the game: micro, macro, decision making, and especially, knowledge. I would say up until he showed up almost every player lacked a bit on some area. Viper not only became the best, he changed the way this game was played and he also mastered everything you can think of. Everyone is trying to master all civilisations now because Viper was there trying to master all civilisations and showing how fun it can be. He showed the variety this game has, how to even master all units. He was the main reason why Age of Empires 2 overall gameplay and meta has evolved through the years and he even took DM to the next level. And well, his tournament record shows how absolute dominant he has been. I don’t have the exact math but I would say that from 2013 onwards he has won something like 90% of all tournaments he entered. Won, not reaching semi-finals or finals, won. And we are talking about a game that has a lot of luck involved. He has been the main figure of the game not only by his gameplay but also by his charming personality that we got to know better through his streams. And his masterpieces are the reason why many of us thinks this game would never get boring. It’s hard to imagine in the future someone as dominant and influential as Viper has already been." - Funito |
Alternate IDs | - |
Name | Ørjan Larsen |
Year of Birth | 1991 |
Teams/Clans | RVK, TyRanT, Secret, Gamer Legion |
Recurrent team partners | DauT, TaToh, JorDan_23, kkab |
Tournament activity | 2011-present |
Best tournament achievements | Hidden Cup 3 (2020) War Is Coming (2015) |
1v1 tournament 1st places | 42 |
TG tournament 1st places | 19 |
Total cash prize earned | $129,205 |
Links | esportsearnings | aoe-elo | voobly | aoe2.net | gameplay |
Thats true loveNice list but I gotta know... who tried listing Yo as #1 of all-time?
By the way, I won't disclose individual lists. If the participants want to share their opinion in detail they'll do it by themselvesNice list but I gotta know... who tried listing Yo as #1 of all-time?
By the way, I won't disclose individual lists. If the participants want to share their opinion in detail they'll do it by themselves