NC17 - SL KO QF - SK28 France A vs Austria A

[edie]

I never said anything about tanks and never promised he was coming. You should not make assumptions about things just the way i don't make assumptions about what Edie was talking to admins and what solution he was suggesting. I did not want to bring the topic up for the reason both teams were talking to admins in private which makes the story two-sided and unless someone saved all those conversation we will never see it as a whole from both perspectives.

Lierey was late due to external cause - the tournament he played in was delay almost one hour (Viper could not play, Daut was late). In my opinion this is in no way his or my teams' fault and since France did not want to wait (which i understand; i did not want to sit and wait either) the most mature and fair decision is to reschedule the match. I will not speculate about the reasons France refused to reschedule and if i were an admin i would force the rescheduling as i most fair solution (to my opinion).

I will just answere where I am concerned.

You didnt tell tanks was coming, but Lb said it from the start, he was coming to replace lierey. But he showed up only 1h later. So hani was right when he said in the room "you said tank is coming".

I was discussing privatly with admin but I have nothing to hide, just the room chat was too much trashtalk and non sense so I had no point to talk there. My proposition to the admin after 30mins+, were to have AW for the G1 since you was only two able to play, tanks was not here, lierey was in another tournament game. I was nice enough to not ask for an admin win which if we follow the rules we could have attempted to, especially since:
1) you could not play at all on saturday, made my team mates cancel IRL stuff for this round but didnt show up
2) had the players to play the round but didnt want.

Because I didnt want to win with a AW round, I rather lose. All we wanted was to have the games be played and the round be done this day and not too late.

Lierey clearly told me you were aware he had a tournament at this gmt and depending how long it would take he would maybe not be able to play at this gmt, so he didnt understand it either.

I clearly said to admins and to you reschedule is not an option and this from the start, we cant play tournament game on week day, and never could, most of us have work, some other are in internship and have only laptot in weekday. And play two round in one week-end is also just impossible, already one round require us too much time, I should not have to explain it but most here have a life and must. So force a reschedule when you know its impossible for the team who was here at the time schedule is not what i would call a fair decision.

When we saw the admins first decision to be 'reschedule' after 50 mins, when they knew it was not possible for us, we just wanted to quite the tournament because it was frustrating, unfair, and a disrespect to us. But, in the time, admins also said "or go 2v2" and then few mins later tanks showed up so we were finally able to play 3v3 after 1h of waiting.


It's true that hani got impatient "fast" and started to say "........" " where is your team" "14", but when you know we canceled and made everything possible to play this the day and gmt you want I think its understandable and normal reaction isnt it?
You should just be sorry for the inconveniance and apologized but instead your answer was "s.t.f.u" and continued the talk, and in top of it you comment here and complain about hani attitude ?

 

[Influenza]

If you had 3 players online, and it's after 20 minutes of waiting you should have to instantly begin playing. If you only have two players online at that time it should be 2v2 only if France accepts, otherwise AW is the obvious choice.

USA was missing important players in 3 weeks of games, but we didn't think that the "most reasonable solution" was to delay the tournament with a reschedule. We fielded other players and played the games on time as scheduled.

And being involved in a second tournament is really not a good excuse for Lierey. Don't sign up for simultaneous tournaments if you can't fulfill the obligations. Scheduling on the same day a few hours apart is a risk that was taken, and the consequences of that risk were alleviated by the admins' allowance and the French team's kindness. But it really shouldn't be expected for opponent teams to facilitate the AOC tournament all day lifestyle.

It's really hilarious (but sadly expected) that Lavie would make some accusatory posts after avoiding AL by the skin of her teeth. Should just thank them for waiting as long as they did. The fact that no one could supply the supposedly disrespectful quotes of Hani leads me to believe they probably don't really exist. If the French team really waited an hour and still there are complaints... 11

 

[Foxtrot]

Blablabla senseless bullcrap. Instead i was annoyed and this contributed nothing to solution.

.

Oh you were annoyed Little Princess?
How did these miserable peasants dare to annoy you Milady?
Oh yes by showing their bad humor to your amazing person! These shameless and ungrateful bastards should be satisfied enough to be granted the opportunity to play against you and your fantastic team, no matter if your graceful person is delaying every of them making them wait, after all you are worth it!
And how dare they come on here and blame you for pointing out how miserable and annoying they have been to your graceful person!
We all should be thankful to you for sharing your invaluable opinion about these kind of lower people.

are you sure you have heard the whole story from both perspectives before you make judgements like that?

Facts
§9 - Schedule Reliability, Admin Wins, Rescheduling
Once two teams have arranged and confirmed a time to play, the maximum waiting time is 20 minutes. If one of the teams fails to arrive or a team is delaying the start of the match for an invalid reason, the waiting team must take a screenshot showing http://www.worldtimeserver.com/current_time_in_UTC.aspx (so the current time is clearly visible) with the Tournament Lobby Game Room and post the screenshot in Admin Requests topic. This way, tournament admins will know how long the team waited and upon Admins decision, the team that did not come might get an Admin Loss for the games. Do not try to edit time arrangement posts in an attempt to get free wins, because the forum registers the exact date and hour of each edited post. Such actions are considered cheating, and the offender will be punished. It is always in the interest of the tournament to get games played, so if it doesn't delay the tournament, rescheduling would objectively be the better option than Admin Wins. It's the decision of the team who showed up if rescheduling shall happen.

-This is part of the rules you agreed to when you signed up to this tournament.
-France team was on scheduled time
-Austria team was partly present (2 players ready to play, 1 "coming" aka waiting on another nickname to not be forced to play without the best one wich was => 1 already playing another tournament)
-15minutes after the scheduled time, Hani showed his bad humor of having to wait. To which Austria answered by "S.T.F.U" as I stated in an earlier post.
-20minutes after the scheduled time, France was present, Austria wasn't.

-At that point, no matter if it doesn't please you or the admins of the tournament (who MADE these rules!), France team could have requested an admin win.
-They did not push for an AW and agreed to wait more.
-40minutes after the scheduled time, France requested AW for the 1st game with the other games yet to be played.
-45minutes after the scheduled time, admins came up with an admin decision "games to be rescheduled" (opposed to their own rules) and seeing France anger came up with another option "play 2v2"
-50minutes after the scheduled time, France requested 2v2 to be played, Austria refused
-1h+ after the scheduled time, 3v3 was played with Austria 4th player (opposed to admin decision)
-Roughly 1h45 after the scheduled time, Lierrey finally showed up and played the remaining games.

Double standards much.
I still can't believe you dared to come up here and complain about anyone from a team who, according the tournament rules, allowed you to remain in the tournament.

 

[joubine9]

After i saw the first post of Lavie complaining, i just have one question to my friend edie: HOW THE F UCK MAN U DIDN'T TAKE THE AW TO THOSE PEOPLE?!! IDIOTO 11

 

[Tarsiz]

Players have expressed themselves and I don't think it's necessary to fuel more drama.
Of course, that would be expected of people like the two above.

For spectators and immature and vocal "fans" that are graciously allowed into the lobbies when it would be a strict right of both teams to choose to play without specs, I think a great man summed up pretty well what you should do: here.

 

[prv_limb]

Let's just put this "discussion" behind us. Some things were said in the heat of the moment, nobody was happy by the situation. Fair play to France not wanting the AW and that they were willing to wait in the end, from team Austria's POV it's really understandable that they didn't want their games to be affected by a player in a different tournament. In the end the games were played and the best team won the match. We would like to thank both teams for playing.

Any posts after this that don't contribute to how good the games were will be removed.

 

[Foxtrot]

Pretty much sums up half of Austrian team mindset :

Not even showing guilt or regret, classy.

Tarsiz, you're not even applying your own standards to yourself. Cute.
After watching that video I will use some words I read somewhere "Jesus... Such anger and violence."

I was disappointed with the games, probably biased tho.
Imo France clearly underperformed.
Austria clear winner on the battlefield, France has never been able to contain Lierrey's power.

 

[Chessfreak_]

Anyone casted the last two games?

 

[teutonic_tanks]

Anyone casted the last two games?

Memb promised to finish streaming the last 2 games, but afaik he didnt until now. He only streamed game 2 so far.

 

[rustyknivess]

France is in overall way better than Austria. Austria depends way too much on Lierrey just like Norway did with Viper last NC. Austria was just lucky that France has a high tolerance and France just had a bad day I guess.

Kinda a pity because I wanted to see France vs Czech in winners semi's but now as long as CZ can handle Lierrey it would be a breeze for em.

Props to Eddie for being a good sportmanship!

 

[_VM_]

Austria played better, games were pretty clear about it. Arena strat ripped us, and I would say Lierey power was used in the best way in all games.
GL Austria for the next round !

It is our last match and I am happy to have gone that far, because we enjoyed it so much as a team. This Gold/Silver League system was awesome and allowed us to enjoy playing together all the tournament even if we are not top team, our players coming from pretty much all settings/generation, we didn't really know each other so much before it, and we used to meet and know each other during the Silver League and we got a awesome cohesion that we wouldn't have got without the tourney. Every match, every available mate played at least one game of the sett. We didn't play for the result, but only to enjoy this atmosphere born.
gg, thanks everybody

To admins :
I hope you guys can use the feedback from this case. I don't talk about the flame or the drama topic. I hope that you see how your 1st decision was unfair to us, on our point of view. You wanted us to simply reschedule the match as Austria team wanted after 45 min of waiting and time lost. Right after your statement they simply left and that made me very frustrated at the moment.
To be honest, if the match wasn't played and you guys admins forced us to reschedule, as it seems it was the final decision before the game were finally played, I and I think my team we would not have play it. Because it was too much and we would take it as an insult, being completely against us after all the compromises we made.
We had commitment to be there at their chosen time. Some of us didn't want to play Sunday. We got more commitment than Austria on the schedule, and more commitment during that hour, where we could have done 2v2, or 3v3 with lower player. Anyway, I prefer to lose vs Austria with Lierey playing, than win with him absent, and so do all my team, trully. They wanted their best to be on roster and that's understandable, be 100% of their power, no 4v4 as we asked, and again that is undestandable, it is a tourney and rules says both have to accept. To get this match, we made a lot of compromises, and Austria pretty much 0 from my POV. But anyway we adapted and I think we needed more support for it in the decision, rules being pretty clear about not showing on time (nobody wanted AW or a biaised win, but at least things clear for Austria, like add an extra 10-15-20 min time then force a 2v2 or 3v3 or a deadline at the end of which there would be a sanction that would not have been used ofc, but at least not a decision 100% on their interest), which sadly wasn't the case : this added frustration and could be a part that leaded to some reactions you see there.

That being said to make the future better, I would like to say that we are all very happy of the NC and our firework end, and this topic make it even better :P

Again, Thank you for all !

ps : foxtrot > tarsiz

 

[SiFly]

tarsiz is banned from France now, citizenship taken from him

 

[Timotheus_]

Rant somewhat related, been on my mind for a while and this topic touches some of the points.

While its understandable for teams to want to field their best roster, it also doesn't settle with me that teams constantly wheedle their way into playing times that only their 4 best players can play. There is a reason why the team roster has space for 10 players. It irks me that teams sign up with 4 players (in the case of small countries, fair enough) and then limit the times slots they can play (with all top 4 players) and then say: "do you have 4" when yes, you can field 4 but not your top strength.

As flu said, USA constantly fielded all players on roster so that games could be scheduled easily and without delay. Unfortunately, this meant that in the case against Japan, my brother couldn't play, which obviously sucked. Of course it would be nice to delay the tournament 1 week so that he could, but.... this is not what the tournament rules allow for. Ultimately we decided we would abide wholly to the rules (scheduling for a slot where we indeed have 4 players), and alas, we lost 2-3. Personally I feel like if we had done a scheduling war to push for extra time scheduling with our top 4, the result would have been different, but as I said, the roster size is 10!! so the games can get played without tournament delay. Pity this isn't followed to closely.

 

[dataidiot]

About the decisions of Admins​

If the claims of French team are correct, the role of admins in tournaments should be reviewed. When the rules are clear, the decisions should be done according to them. How else would players follow the rules? It is a must for a staff to give the good example.
Also, it seems to me admins fear to give AWs and thus ruin many matchups. Well, I'd like to point out the risk of having multiple breaks of rules is very high if harsh attitudes are not taken against those who cheat their own word("I agree to follow Rules & settings"). A middle term decision, to please more people, can be taken, though. Set the punition as 1 game lost after every x minutes of delay.

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

IDC about the pathetic drama, but was there a drop in arina game? I am trying to watch the recording and it stops at about 28th~ minute?

 

[robo]

IDC about the pathetic drama, but was there a drop in arina game? I am trying to watch the recording and it stops at about 28th~ minute?

Do you have the SYNC mod enabled?

 

[paroofex]

11

Should be for France, props to them for playing all games in the end. Bad admin decision, but we got used to that in AOC I guess.

Not surprised on Lavies reaction. Years ago I played a game with her, wonder and co and played bad I have to admit. And then I became the ****ing noob and she cursed me all game. Attitude didn't change it seems. Chill out.

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

IDC about the pathetic drama, but was there a drop in arina game? I am trying to watch the recording and it stops at about 28th~ minute?

Do you have the SYNC mod enabled?

OFC I do. I was able to watch each game until the end but the arina one.

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

It is working now in third attempt.

 

[joubine9]

11

Should be for France, props to them for playing all games in the end. Bad admin decision, but we got used to that in AOC I guess.

Not surprised on Lavies reaction. Years ago I played a game with her, wonder and co and played bad I have to admit. And then I became the **** noob and she cursed me all game. Attitude didn't change it seems. Chill out.

Don't feel bad mate, just go watch every rec from lavie in TGS when she is vs nicov and you will have a good laugh. :lol:

 

[Black Adder]

Interesting match with some good plays, the strat on Decentring and game reading by Edie on Arena were nice :-) Didn't even know there was this drama to complement it :d