NAC 4 - Off Topic

[Progeusz]

Yes, I’m very aware of Philippe. Me and him have some history. He actually trolled me for a few years collectively.

Regarding Nili’s behavior and comments about what he’s done, I think you misunderstand me a bit. Like I mentioned above, I don’t disagree with some of the things that have been said. I’m actually in some agreement. What I agree with Nili however, was that by his response he was more tired of the forums in general (or at least my impression) to which I’d be on that side as well. Pros even going back 10 years or more have mentioned stuff like it as well. Even some casters past few years have said same. It is all the same thing more or less. Doubt they want to be named and I don’t believe in randomly bringing them into it. I’m sure others remember a little at least.

I see. Looks like I indeed misunderstood what you meant there. Sorry.
Yeah. no need to bring them up, wasn't my intention to do that. I believe you there were multiple people like that. And yeah, I remember such statements from pros and casters over the years too, but usually they were followed by something along the lines "if you look past bad apples, it's still the best place to talk about aoe2/announce tournaments etc.".

 

[Shakal]

until you realize Nili's response was to ****ing Philippe le Bon, guy who was never serious. Getting uppity over his comments is just pathetic. Nili wasn't really hurt by that, he was just looking for an excuse to throw a tantrum and chose the lowest hanging fruit.

Nili called AoEZone toxic several times before that incident, it was more like a last straw that broke camel hippo's back

 

[T90Official]

Tell me this is a joke pls.

Literally every tournament that has kept the game alive over the past 15 years primordially existed because of this board.
There are obviously a lot of trolls on this forum but who cares? There are trolls on reddit aswell but the despicable up/down vote concept on reddit just drowns them out. Everyone with even half a brain knows who to ignore on the boards. But no, let's act all butthurt because three trolls disliked my event

It's even straight up bad business. Why ignore one of the most influential AoE communities? I honestly don't know. In my country we say that even bad press is still press.

Not to mention you'd be hard pressed to find a single person who'd completely disagree with some of the criticism he has received.




Meanwhile Huehuecoyotl is hosting a Nations Cup on top of the AoE-olympics he organised earlier.
Tournaments entirely communtiy funded and primordially promoted on this website, in which players of varying skill are allowed to participate.
Over 450 registered players and he isn't crying one bit about the AoEzone trolls.

Meanwhile T90 is organising a 2nd season of his T90's titans league in which people of varying skill are able to compete.
And yet, eventhough he arguably is one of the biggest names (if not the biggest) in the community, he replies here and explains some of his decisions.
He even takes the time to congratulate other people on their tournaments.

Please don't use my contribution on this site as an argument others should do it more. The majority of the time I click into aoezone it's something I regret, and I mainly do so because old habits die hard. Let's not act like "three trolls disliked the event" is the reason someone like Nili might not want to invest energy and time here. Look through a few pages of this thread and it's gone well beyond that, and it was way worse at times in the past. This has happened in various degrees towards Nili, Memb, and myself over the years and while it has varied in seriousness, it almost always crosses the line. Hell, even if someone is praising someone they often use it as an opportunity to tear another down at the same time. The most concerning point is that those who cross the line are often encouraged by having the highest amount of upvotes which just feeds the cycle.

Saying "every tournament that has kept the game alive over the past 15 years primordially existed because of this board" may be very true. But to me that's like saying we should stay on Voobly because of the role it played in keeping AoE2 alive. Times change and when something isn't best for the community people move on, and I can totally understand why many don't want to interact here as much.

Hosting a tournament takes a lot of time and energy. In my case I often put a year or more planning & brainstorming on what I want to achieve for the event. In Nili's case I am sure he's in a similar boat. Why would anyone want to put time and effort into AoEZone when their trailer thread is going to turn into people shitting on you for page after page, and bringing up the past at every opportunity?
I still believe everyone here loves the game and is passionate about it, but I really wonder how much that matters versus the drama these days. While most would say they do care about the tourneys and such, it seems the main thing that gets people active here is drama. For example, Titans League Silver generated next to zero discussion on this board, we had Gabi getting into Gold which was freaking awesome for our scene, we had Hoang getting good results on mixed maps, Heart and Lan returning to high level tourneys for the first time in a long time. The list goes on for Silver, but now we've got people like Running winning 2-1 vs Vinch in the first round, ridiculous games from Dracken to take down Liereyy on arena, again the list goes on and on. Maybe this is my fault for not creating a separate discussion thread for TTL (which I will do soon as this has made me think about it) but this isn't just for TTL, it's a consistent theme on this board that people prefer to talk about the game less and drama more.

AoEZone has been important to our scene over the years. But let's not act like the dominating conversations on this board are invaluable to our community these days. And to be clear, I'm not trying to diss whoever is reading this personally as it can vary from person to person... But surely there's an easy theme to pick up on when being on aoezone these days.

 

[Cuth]

Please don't use my contribution on this site as an argument others should do it more. The majority of the time I click into aoezone it's something I regret, and I mainly do so because old habits die hard. Let's not act like "three trolls disliked the event" is the reason someone like Nili might not want to invest energy and time here. Look through a few pages of this thread and it's gone well beyond that, and it was way worse at times in the past. This has happened in various degrees towards Nili, Memb, and myself over the years and while it has varied in seriousness, it almost always crosses the line. Hell, even if someone is praising someone they often use it as an opportunity to tear another down at the same time. The most concerning point is that those who cross the line are often encouraged by having the highest amount of upvotes which just feeds the cycle.

Saying "every tournament that has kept the game alive over the past 15 years primordially existed because of this board" may be very true. But to me that's like saying we should stay on Voobly because of the role it played in keeping AoE2 alive. Times change and when something isn't best for the community people move on, and I can totally understand why many don't want to interact here as much.

Hosting a tournament takes a lot of time and energy. In my case I often put a year or more planning & brainstorming on what I want to achieve for the event. In Nili's case I am sure he's in a similar boat. Why would anyone want to put time and effort into AoEZone when their trailer thread is going to turn into people shitting on you for page after page, and bringing up the past at every opportunity?
I still believe everyone here loves the game and is passionate about it, but I really wonder how much that matters versus the drama these days. While most would say they do care about the tourneys and such, it seems the main thing that gets people active here is drama. For example, Titans League Silver generated next to zero discussion on this board, we had Gabi getting into Gold which was freaking awesome for our scene, we had Hoang getting good results on mixed maps, Heart and Lan returning to high level tourneys for the first time in a long time. The list goes on for Silver, but now we've got people like Running winning 2-1 vs Vinch in the first round, ridiculous games from Dracken to take down Liereyy on arena, again the list goes on and on. Maybe this is my fault for not creating a separate discussion thread for TTL (which I will do soon as this has made me think about it) but this isn't just for TTL, it's a consistent theme on this board that people prefer to talk about the game less and drama more.

AoEZone has been important to our scene over the years. But let's not act like the dominating conversations on this board are invaluable to our community these days. And to be clear, I'm not trying to diss whoever is reading this personally as it can vary from person to person... But surely there's an easy theme to pick up on when being on aoezone these days.

Don't worry, it was not my intent to use your contributions to get others to post more, just appreciating the fact that it happens.

Hell, I wouldn't (and I don't) read all the garbage that gets posted here. I just believe it's foolish to willingly ignore one of the larger platforms in the game out of spite. The Nations Cup post has over 40k views. Post my event and ignore, that's what I would do. But then again, I am not a public figure, let alone a controversial one, so....

The legacy of Voobly or AoEzone shouldn't matter all that much but AoEzone is one of the easiest way to stay up to date regardless. I really despise reddit so I guess I'm pretty much stuck here.

It is true that drama has somewhat taken the upperhand here which I regret. AoEzone is not aoczone when it comes to discussing games or performances but atleast there is still some discussion left.
I guess I'm just better at filtering out the nonsense.
Drama will always generate more content and attention. That's unfortunately just the way the world works.

 

[robo]

I guess I'm just better at filtering out the nonsense.

It's easy to filter out nonsense when it doesn't personally concern you.

Try dealing with almost daily harassment and abuse and see how well you deal with it.

 

[Rayne]

I didn’t expect two of the names I was thinking of to post all of a sudden.


Didn’t want to quote T90 as I don’t believe in quoting known people unless I have a question, but these days are definitely far worse than any other time period for forums, and I’ve been around since early 06.

Not to be the opposite and an aoezone hater, but literally any drama in the past never got as bad as anything these days. There was RoR having higher rated players smurfing for lower rated players for 2 WCLs which resulted in perma ban (small topic), Daut vs Dreams briefly on legion forums for WCL6 (everyone mostly watching), Chris posting a pack on aocgroup and many people calling him an egoist (sad because Chris was one of few tops that posted then), top players smurfing for friends in tournaments/one requesting save and exit to avoid -30 pts in rated, or Dreams firing back at people criticizing his/others games with his famous “You must be 2k to talk about 2k+ games”. That last one with Dreams is the only thing comparable to these days where almost everyone on the forums got offended and hated him, but still not as bad as stuff that is around or comes around these days.

Then Cain which is something of an unsolved mystery, don’t know how many know or remember that, but he’s the only true fraudulent top player ever, even more than Ertug. The topic back then was small comparatively, these days it would easily be a 500 topic if not even 1000 posts somehow. There’s a lot involving it.

Otherwise, it’s kind of sad somewhere this topic or one other is how the new year gets kicked off. I was wondering how long it would take for something like this to happen, barely 2 weeks. Mainly referring to the alt account that was talking down Memb, the funny thing too is some of the writing style only reminds me of one user on here that wrote similarly back in July or August. Is this really the way some want to start the new year? I don’t believe in New Year Resolutions but I just don’t get it tbh, it’s like the families that come together for the holidays and just fight.

 

[Socksyy]

Chris posting a pack on aocgroup and many people calling him an egoist (sad because Chris was one of few tops that posted then)

As long as you included Chris in your top 5 player of aoc list you were safe from his wrath

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

Please don't use my contribution on this site as an argument others should do it more. The majority of the time I click into aoezone it's something I regret, and I mainly do so because old habits die hard. Let's not act like "three trolls disliked the event" is the reason someone like Nili might not want to invest energy and time here. Look through a few pages of this thread and it's gone well beyond that, and it was way worse at times in the past. This has happened in various degrees towards Nili, Memb, and myself over the years and while it has varied in seriousness, it almost always crosses the line. Hell, even if someone is praising someone they often use it as an opportunity to tear another down at the same time. The most concerning point is that those who cross the line are often encouraged by having the highest amount of upvotes which just feeds the cycle.

Saying "every tournament that has kept the game alive over the past 15 years primordially existed because of this board" may be very true. But to me that's like saying we should stay on Voobly because of the role it played in keeping AoE2 alive. Times change and when something isn't best for the community people move on, and I can totally understand why many don't want to interact here as much.

Hosting a tournament takes a lot of time and energy. In my case I often put a year or more planning & brainstorming on what I want to achieve for the event. In Nili's case I am sure he's in a similar boat. Why would anyone want to put time and effort into AoEZone when their trailer thread is going to turn into people shitting on you for page after page, and bringing up the past at every opportunity?
I still believe everyone here loves the game and is passionate about it, but I really wonder how much that matters versus the drama these days. While most would say they do care about the tourneys and such, it seems the main thing that gets people active here is drama. For example, Titans League Silver generated next to zero discussion on this board, we had Gabi getting into Gold which was freaking awesome for our scene, we had Hoang getting good results on mixed maps, Heart and Lan returning to high level tourneys for the first time in a long time. The list goes on for Silver, but now we've got people like Running winning 2-1 vs Vinch in the first round, ridiculous games from Dracken to take down Liereyy on arena, again the list goes on and on. Maybe this is my fault for not creating a separate discussion thread for TTL (which I will do soon as this has made me think about it) but this isn't just for TTL, it's a consistent theme on this board that people prefer to talk about the game less and drama more.

AoEZone has been important to our scene over the years. But let's not act like the dominating conversations on this board are invaluable to our community these days. And to be clear, I'm not trying to diss whoever is reading this personally as it can vary from person to person... But surely there's an easy theme to pick up on when being on aoezone these days.

Pls next Hidden Cup

 

[Progeusz]

Can't speak for others, no idea if it's the same for them but i prefer watching casted games on YouTube, in my own free time, usually some days after they are uploaded, sometimes watching one set over two-three days. This leads to me being behind and avoiding threads for games to not encounter spoilers. On top of that, people tend to focus on newest events and are unlikely to respond to a comment about a game which was uploaded five days ago. If i need it, i talk about the games with friends in PMs instead. That said, most of the time i simply enjoy them on my own as they're more enjoyable to watch than football or other sports.

"Drama threads" however are more accessible and it's easier to chip in. As for why they are so popular... sadly this is how human mind works, it's been scientifically proven time and time again that our brains make us engage in negative topics more. If something bad or dangerous happens, we're quick to spread the word around but if we simply enjoy something, there's less desire to share that. It's something worth working on, to improve ourselves, I agree, but it's a tough fight against fundamental instincts and mechanics.

 

[Cuth]

It's easy to filter out nonsense when it doesn't personally concern you.

Try dealing with almost daily harassment and abuse and see how well you deal with it.

I'd use the ignore button or take it up with whoever runs the boards.

Unless it's the admins harrassing as you can't ignore them.

 

[Rayne]

"Drama threads" however are more accessible and it's easier to chip in. As for why they are so popular... sadly this is how human mind works, it's been scientifically proven time and time again that our brains make us engage in negative topics more. If something bad or dangerous happens, we're quick to spread the word around but if we simply enjoy something, there's less desire to share that. It's something worth working on, to improve ourselves, I agree, but it's a tough fight against fundamental instincts and mechanics.

I think it is actually more a byproduct of the “like system” rather than the negativity bias (agree with it somewhat). It is positive reinforcement in a way (trumps negativity, believe we all learned this long ago). Old drama threads before 2016 never had this, which I think is a reason most never got so out of hand (there was always crap posting in general since 2006).

Mean posts like T90 said get liked, so an opinion is ‘reinforced’. Then it happens multiple times which means multiple reinforcement, and viola. Gets fed. It’s tapping into the reward system of the brain involving amounts of dopamine being released once the “reward” is obtained. Naturally people like doing things that feel good over and over again. There may even be a small surge of adrenaline and even some potential addiction going on in multiple areas. Also even aside from that, there have been studies showing how emotions are contagious, both positive and negative. It is how the brain recognizes emotion in general if I’m not mistaken. Lot of things going on.

There’s even Harvard and Yale studies about social media/likes. They said the like system can be much like “learning a language” in order to get more and more likes. Very fitting honestly. Makes me glad I am not into social media on the whole.

 

[JoshuaR]

Can't speak for others, no idea if it's the same for them but i prefer watching casted games on YouTube, in my own free time, usually some days after they are uploaded, sometimes watching one set over two-three days. This leads to me being behind and avoiding threads for games to not encounter spoilers. On top of that, people tend to focus on newest events and are unlikely to respond to a comment about a game which was uploaded five days ago. If i need it, i talk about the games with friends in PMs instead. That said, most of the time i simply enjoy them on my own as they're more enjoyable to watch than football or other sports.

"Drama threads" however are more accessible and it's easier to chip in. As for why they are so popular... sadly this is how human mind works, it's been scientifically proven time and time again that our brains make us engage in negative topics more. If something bad or dangerous happens, we're quick to spread the word around but if we simply enjoy something, there's less desire to share that. It's something worth working on, to improve ourselves, I agree, but it's a tough fight against fundamental instincts and mechanics.

Tougher these days to keep up with live action, especially on US West Coast where you'd have to wake up at ungodly hours to watch aoe2 on the weekend (like when slam wakes up to compete), and if there's time on a weekday evening, it's vods or youtube since nothing live is happening.

I do wish the tournament hosts/organizers would be more involved on aoezone highlighting when matches are happening, hyping things up before and after.

All the things T90 mentioned? Didn't know about them. I can reply to this topic because there IS a topic. I can't reply to or engage with stuff that doesn't exist.

 

[willdbeast]

While I don’t disagree with some of what you said, I can see why Nili would feel the way he did/does. It just gets tiresome.

I have watched some of my friends that are known people in the community for instance get slandered for literally hundreds of posts, many feeling unnecessary and negatively over the top. From that, I would never get to the place where I’d tell them, “Hey, just ignore it. It’s only a couple hundred posts. Or hey, you only got death threats for a few months. Just let it go buddy.” It is easy for you or others to say just look the other way.

Also, most people on here I’d say aren’t teenagers where they only have an online life. Dealing with whatever irl stuff they have, then come online to get harassed or criticized over the top? Unneeded in my opinion. You can color it however you want saying it’s only criticism or someone is just being “honest” (which sometimes I’d say is a codeword for excusing rudeness), which I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with that point btw, but one also shouldn’t disagree or be surprised when it is those exact things that alienate someone.

I don’t think you or anyone else would hit someone with a stick a dozen times or so and expect them to take a few hundred more hits. And then wonder what their problem is when they run away. Then there’s some that think they could act better when that has yet to be proven. That’s not intended to be a subtle dig at you btw or anyone else in particular, just something I don’t believe.

It's a bit of a stretch comparing someone receiving death threats or being physically beaten to someone making a joke about nili hosting closed casting events (even if it was a stupid joke)

 

[Rayne]

It's a bit of a stretch comparing someone receiving death threats or being physically beaten to someone making a joke about nili hosting closed casting events (even if it was a stupid joke)

Not trying to sound aggressive here, but this is when I am unsure if someone is trying to pick a small fight with me. That was an older post, Proguesz mentioned something like that to me, I did clear it up a bit. T90 also mentioned it was more than Philippe’s joke. I don’t think you’re that kind of user (do recognize your name), so I think I am misunderstanding you. But otherwise:

I was refraining from mentioning names as I prefer keeping them out 99% of the time, but I believe everyone (or most) know I am referring to Spring and Gabi. What Spring went through seemed mostly like a result of the topic being posted on here. Same with Nili feeling the way he did and it seems having left (more than the joke). That’s the point. Both things stem from these forums. Rather not say more on it since it is old water under the bridge.

 

[The Bloodless]

I think it is actually more a byproduct of the “like system” rather than the negativity bias (agree with it somewhat). It is positive reinforcement in a way (trumps negativity, believe we all learned this long ago). Old drama threads before 2016 never had this, which I think is a reason most never got so out of hand (there was always crap posting in general since 2006).

Mean posts like T90 said get liked, so an opinion is ‘reinforced’. Then it happens multiple times which means multiple reinforcement, and viola. Gets fed. It’s tapping into the reward system of the brain involving amounts of dopamine being released once the “reward” is obtained. Naturally people like doing things that feel good over and over again. There may even be a small surge of adrenaline and even some potential addiction going on in multiple areas. Also even aside from that, there have been studies showing how emotions are contagious, both positive and negative. It is how the brain recognizes emotion in general if I’m not mistaken. Lot of things going on.

There’s even Harvard and Yale studies about social media/likes. They said the like system can be much like “learning a language” in order to get more and more likes. Very fitting honestly. Makes me glad I am not into social media on the whole.

I think it is actually more a byproduct of the “like system” rather than the negativity bias (agree with it somewhat). It is positive reinforcement in a way (trumps negativity, believe we all learned this long ago). Old drama threads before 2016 never had this, which I think is a reason most never got so out of hand (there was always crap posting in general since 2006).

Mean posts like T90 said get liked, so an opinion is ‘reinforced’. Then it happens multiple times which means multiple reinforcement, and viola. Gets fed. It’s tapping into the reward system of the brain involving amounts of dopamine being released once the “reward” is obtained. Naturally people like doing things that feel good over and over again. There may even be a small surge of adrenaline and even some potential addiction going on in multiple areas. Also even aside from that, there have been studies showing how emotions are contagious, both positive and negative. It is how the brain recognizes emotion in general if I’m not mistaken. Lot of things going on.

There’s even Harvard and Yale studies about social media/likes. They said the like system can be much like “learning a language” in order to get more and more likes. Very fitting honestly. Makes me glad I am not into social media on the whole.

Personally, i think the like system has proven to be better than the old system. in the old forums of aoczone, there was a lot of posts of "1" or "11" and it was super cluttered. with the emoji you can do the same thing and not fill up the thread with identical posts.

It's of course nilis choice to advertise how he likes. I know personally if I hosted a tourney I wouldn't post it on Twitter regardless because I don't like the platform. But it's going to make his tourneys less popular if he snubs a platform. that includes aoezone.

T90 has a more professional approach, which likely helps get him more attention on his tourneys. Plugging them on every social media.

A lot of people seem to think aoezone is toxic while using it incessantly. Using the report option for users that went over the line is a more effective way to change the site for the better (if you think it's bad) rather than continuing to post and complain into thin air with regular posts. Or, frankly, take a page out of Nilis book and use other platforms that you like better rather than spreading negativity.

 

[Festivus]

I don't mean to repeat myself, because I asked this question in my last post on this thread, but I think it bears repeating because there appears to be at least somewhat of an overall sentiment that people would like to see actual tournament discussion in tournament threads. Are there mods on this forum that would be able/willing to keep threads on topic. If not, why? I'm not saying posts shouldn't be made with legitimate critiques of persons/tournaments. But there is NO reason for a thread about NAC4 to turn into a critique of the pros and cons of memb as a caster. I do not believe that this forum is overly toxic as many do, but it is certainly easy to see why they think that way, when every major thread gets hijacked into something completely unrelated and also negative, and then repeated verbatim on every tournament thread. Again, I'm not at all saying people with complaints shouldn't be allowed to voice them, but there is a time and a place. They have the ability to make a thread about that complaint. Meanwhile it would be awesome if tournament topics could stay on topic. That way people who want to avoid the negativity can do so, and those who want to read and discuss tournaments can do so without reading through endless pages of nonsense unrelated to what they were hoping for.

 

[Rayne]

Personally, i think the like system has proven to be better than the old system. in the old forums of aoczone, there was a lot of posts of "1" or "11" and it was super cluttered. with the emoji you can do the same thing and not fill up the thread with identical posts.

It's of course nilis choice to advertise how he likes. I know personally if I hosted a tourney I wouldn't post it on Twitter regardless because I don't like the platform. But it's going to make his tourneys less popular if he snubs a platform. that includes aoezone.

T90 has a more professional approach, which likely helps get him more attention on his tourneys. Plugging them on every social media.

A lot of people seem to think aoezone is toxic while using it incessantly. Using the report option for users that went over the line is a more effective way to change the site for the better (if you think it's bad) rather than continuing to post and complain into thin air with regular posts. Or, frankly, take a page out of Nilis book and use other platforms that you like better rather than spreading negativity.

I’d say that is where there’s something missing however. What you’d define as clutter I would call forum engagement. And though liking, loving, or hahaing posts makes things simpler, it seems to have come at some price. Some users I used to see often that have 2000-3000 messages now just leave likes and haven’t posted much. It has made me wonder why and if there’s some connection there. There was even a time pkz made it so one must login to see/comment, and he said it was in hopes people would register and post resulting in more forum activity.

Most probably don’t remember stuff like this, but around 10 years ago there was literally a die hard Chris fan I’ve never seen copied that would come into every Chris topic (actually every single one) and write “L_Clan_Chris #1 ultra RoXxxX!!”. It made people laugh. Then there was a time he wrote a brief essay in circles, saying why Chris was the best, was the best for 10 years, he was the alpha male, he dated hotter girls than anyone, he just beat Daut in a set 3-0 that proves his point. It killed people and seeing 20 or so users write “11” or “11111” which can indeed seem like clutter, is far more amusing/entertaining than just seeing his post with 20 hahas. There’s not much reason to engage anymore. It’s like there’s some magic or art that has been long lost and only existed during ancient Egyptian times. In a way, even posting some seemingly nonsensical things is choosing to give away one’s time, which is to say a part of their life that can never be taken back. There’s meaning there imo, also the way a username pops up and slowly fills a thread. 1 second to like a post, anything from 1 minute to 10 or more to post something depending and adds to the count.

I’ll throw around another thing too, DE. Far more players in general, more top players than ever before (Gabi becoming the greatest female in history to add), more tournaments than ever before, average cash prize for tops bigger than any other time period, and finally, less forum activity than I’ve ever seen as long as I’ve been around, which is to say 16 now going on 17 years. Isn’t there a gigantic irony there? I don’t think it is strictly related to things getting simpler by liking or hahaing things (sometimes I’m too tired to respond and leave a like or simpler and it’s acknowledging), I’m sure just ‘times have changed’ is also an inclusion. Other things can be listed. But like T90 said, it just seems like people care more about drama. I’m sure if someone were to make graphs relating to forum activity between a norm and some player or caster saying something that gains traction, it would probably surprise all of us.


I know I’ve been one of the people to say stuff about these forums in more than one post past few weeks, so I won’t mention it again after this one if I’m quoted. Sorry if I’ve annoyed you or others about it. What I would respond to is that as I also mentioned before, is I could never take reporting seriously. In kindergarten, I recall there being the “kiddy corner” which is where misbehavers went, or even in 1st or 2nd grade, misbehaving students placed their heads down on desks for a time before rejoining class. “I’m going to tell Robo or PkZ on you!” I liken it to those things.

I don’t hate these forums for the record, and were it not for topics like “Best Pure DE Player” recently or some along those lines, I would’ve quietly left years ago. Every time I seriously consider it, there always comes a topic that reminds me why I’m still here. Just when I thought I’ve heard or seen everything I possibly could about any top player to the point I am unsurprised, there along comes Dracken about Liereyy. Or pulse who’s apparently been around since at least 2000 or 2001. Cuth has been here since AoK if I’m not mistaken. He spoke about being around when Koven was the best. Stuff like that blows my mind when I thought it’s impossible to get there.

 

[robo]

I don't mean to repeat myself, because I asked this question in my last post on this thread, but I think it bears repeating because there appears to be at least somewhat of an overall sentiment that people would like to see actual tournament discussion in tournament threads. Are there mods on this forum that would be able/willing to keep threads on topic. If not, why? I'm not saying posts shouldn't be made with legitimate critiques of persons/tournaments. But there is NO reason for a thread about NAC4 to turn into a critique of the pros and cons of memb as a caster. I do not believe that this forum is overly toxic as many do, but it is certainly easy to see why they think that way, when every major thread gets hijacked into something completely unrelated and also negative, and then repeated verbatim on every tournament thread. Again, I'm not at all saying people with complaints shouldn't be allowed to voice them, but there is a time and a place. They have the ability to make a thread about that complaint. Meanwhile it would be awesome if tournament topics could stay on topic. That way people who want to avoid the negativity can do so, and those who want to read and discuss tournaments can do so without reading through endless pages of nonsense unrelated to what they were hoping for.

Done.
Based on my personal subjective opinion on each post as to where it belongs, posts have been moved to;

The Announcement/Trailer Thread - 40 replies
Caster Discussion - 79 replies
Off Topic - 41 replies (and this current thread)

 

[thepitzaboy]

It's easy to filter out nonsense when it doesn't personally concern you.

Try dealing with almost daily harassment and abuse and see how well you deal with it.

I actually didnt realize it till very recent, there was an instance where I wanted to ask memb something and he told my why PM on aoezone, he doesnt like going there as much.

I always knew aoezone has a share of its troll and hate but never bothered about it since it never impacted me. This needs to be improved, I think more active moderation would help here. The lack of moderation is what is killing the community experience here and this forum is really the only legacy aoe discussion portal going on since forever.

 

[SouFire]

I didn’t expect two of the names I was thinking of to post all of a sudden.


Didn’t want to quote T90 as I don’t believe in quoting known people unless I have a question, but these days are definitely far worse than any other time period for forums, and I’ve been around since early 06.

Not to be the opposite and an aoezone hater, but literally any drama in the past never got as bad as anything these days. There was RoR having higher rated players smurfing for lower rated players for 2 WCLs which resulted in perma ban (small topic), Daut vs Dreams briefly on legion forums for WCL6 (everyone mostly watching), Chris posting a pack on aocgroup and many people calling him an egoist (sad because Chris was one of few tops that posted then), top players smurfing for friends in tournaments/one requesting save and exit to avoid -30 pts in rated, or Dreams firing back at people criticizing his/others games with his famous “You must be 2k to talk about 2k+ games”. That last one with Dreams is the only thing comparable to these days where almost everyone on the forums got offended and hated him, but still not as bad as stuff that is around or comes around these days.

Then Cain which is something of an unsolved mystery, don’t know how many know or remember that, but he’s the only true fraudulent top player ever, even more than Ertug. The topic back then was small comparatively, these days it would easily be a 500 topic if not even 1000 posts somehow. There’s a lot involving it.

Otherwise, it’s kind of sad somewhere this topic or one other is how the new year gets kicked off. I was wondering how long it would take for something like this to happen, barely 2 weeks. Mainly referring to the alt account that was talking down Memb, the funny thing too is some of the writing style only reminds me of one user on here that wrote similarly back in July or August. Is this really the way some want to start the new year? I don’t believe in New Year Resolutions but I just don’t get it tbh, it’s like the families that come together for the holidays and just fight.

Cain was deftly a big fraud but several big names were involved back then and somehow most fans forgot about it, but that certain sponsor was gone after that.

There was this bolt guy from l clan who stole the money for a nomad event 11, nowadays we could talk about the legendary l clan canary smurfing all day long for like 6 hours killing 1400 up to 1900 and then resigning back to 1400 to start all over again, people are still making disgusting things, but now what has changed are the forums, everyone wants to have control to keep their prestige as pure as posible so that explains why aoezone doesn't really have quality complains anymore.

There was certain tournament admin who once said anyone who i see smurfing will get banned forever from any event that i organize and also was calling stupid other users, yet somehow he got even more power and the people around here will defend his behavior no matter what.

Talking about the nato war vs russia on ukrania was highly forbidden from pkz, cause he was lacking active moderators to keep things under control and the same happens about other controversial topics, the freedom of speech is very limited and i understand their reasoning behind, for the same reason most big public aoe icons prefer to stick with their discords or other social tools that are under their control.

And if you read like 4 months ago this guy who reported the crash exploit and the response he got from a FE dev, basically he got threaten and menaced to get banned for making public critical bugs, while cheaters like god,marshmellow, ertg, etc, etc can come back anytime and do their ****, that is what this forum has become, all the volunteers from 2013 now got a job on FE or microsoft so basically they want to silence or avoid most critics as possible so we probably finally lost those wild forums where you could trashtralk the game, devs, public icons, streamers or whatever controversial topics, i have even read on twitter certain streamers almost crying or feeling depressed cause they just read a bad critic on a close friend of them or public icon here on aoezone, i don't really think those people are very sensitive but i believe that they just want to live in a perfect bubble and avoid as much as possible negative comments and with that all the critical opinions have no room around this forums.

 

[ninja14]

Hahahah .. which mod here had too much time on their hands to save NAC4 from any criticism

Now we have an off topic and a caster thread, both are out of NAC4 sub forum

 

[Michaerbse]

Now we have an off topic and a caster thread, both are out of NAC4 sub forum

Not sure what you are talking about - there is no NAC4 sub forum, is there?
(I guess they usually have to be requested by the respective admin so it doesn't make sense here as there are no official post about NAC4)

 

[Rayne]

i have even read on twitter certain streamers almost crying or feeling depressed cause they just read a bad critic on a close friend of them or public icon here on aoezone, i don't really think those people are very sensitive but i believe that they just want to live in a perfect bubble and avoid as much as possible negative comments and with that all the critical opinions have no room around this forums.

I almost didn’t want to respond as I find ignoring others when quoting me to be cruel treatment, but maybe there’s something to be said. Especially after pitzaboy’s post about Memb which made me feel a bit sad. It has something to do with it.

Regarding ‘certain streamers’, you and maybe 98-99% of others on these forums will never know what it is some known people go through. Sometimes what they’re going through isn’t criticism at all, it is basically prejudice by definition. That is to say, there is no good reason for whatever mean post is made. It is a cheapshot but is usually colored as being ‘criticism’ or just being honest. Sometimes it is a ‘joke’ too.


I don’t know if you remember, but you were one of the first few people that first did this to me 10-12 years back because I lost to dogao 0-5. I forgot exact wording you used, but something that felt very cheeky where you were mentioning how bad me (2100-2200) died to a 2500 (dogao). Bothered me, I did quote you being younger, probably still here if it transferred over, then I just let it go. It happened more though.

Then there was Philippe who followed me for what felt like 2 years collectively that regularly talked me down because I only played huns ara. Or if it wasn’t him, it was some people that just mentioned how I’d die to any fr player because they want to make sure I know my place in life. It’s as if I had to earn my rating the way others think it should be earned to get some base respect as a human, which is honestly one of the dumbest things I’ve ever entertained in thought. That stuff is just prejudice which is to say no good reason for said comment(s) except mockery. Like when an alt account for instance brings up Memb being 16+ for years. How is that remotely related to him being a caster or nac4 in general? Just a cheapshot.


But streamers (assume it is a pro you’re mentioning) feel sad or depressed because they can’t do anything when they see stuff like that. What do you expect them to do? Quote and flame every user that bothers them into oblivion? Who wants to go back to being 10 years old? I pretty much watched Spring, Hera, and I think Nicov go through things on here who are my friends (if Nicov and Hera still consider me an old one at least since not really into aoe anymore). If you and others want to know how it feels, it’s a feeling of being useless or powerless if one cares about their friends. Either adjective works. Not that most probably care though. I honestly feel for everyone that goes through it on here that’s a friend of a top player, caster, or even tourney organizer (I briefly remember some old thread about Chrazini). Also unlike me, known people have some reputation to uphold so they should be careful how they talk. They can never take it back. Like Robo said, if you think it is easy, try it. No one is a robot where no feeling will be felt in time, because to a degree, emotions will never be completely under control by any human. Most of the brain works that way. I never get why that stuff is a surprise to others.

 

[The Bloodless]

Done.
Based on my personal subjective opinion on each post as to where it belongs, posts have been moved to;

The Announcement/Trailer Thread - 40 replies
Caster Discussion - 79 replies
Off Topic - 41 replies (and this current thread)

I was wondering why I couldn't find my posts! Nice effort

 

[IYIyTh]

It's even straight up bad business. Why ignore one of the most influential AoE communities? I honestly don't know. In my country we say that even bad press is still press.

It's about control.