May I team Daut?

[Modri]

Here's the situation:

1. Both me and Daut were born in Yugoslavia and we thus had Yugoslavian citizenship. Later (in the 90s) the country broke into several smaller countries. I am Slovenian, he is Serbian. We speak different language but we'd easily understand each other speaking our native toungues. We probably live about 500 km apart. Don't bring up any Roman or Mongol Empire parables, thank you.

2. Neither of us has anybody in the top 300 (or anywhere close to it) on the ladder. Sure we can sign up, knowing we'd lose every single game of every single match against a team of two 2k players. So don't bring up »That's the charm of it, it forces players to get out of their comfort zone« BS either, thank you.

3. We wouldn't be endangering any contenders by teaming up. Daut is a top 15 player, I am certainly not. We have zero chemistry, in fact we have never ever played as allies before (to my knowledge). Hell, I don't even know if he has time or wants to play with me in this tournament (supposedly he wanted to do it in AoElympics). I figured I'll sooner finish writing this up than waiting for his reply. So there would be a lot of »charm« and »getting out of your comfort zone« if we actually teamed up and took a shot at beating some established teams. And that's the beauty of World Cup, right?

4. It's not the first time something like this happened this year either. In AoElympics (that just finished) we asked the same: host of the tournament made a poll in which captains of other teams (surprisingly) voted that we shouldn't be allowed to team (unless ofc I discovered to have a serbian ancestor which I did not do). Daut then didn't participate at all and I played in 1v1 brackets only and earned 2 medals. Would love to have played some 2v2s there as well.

5. If it was 1 team per country then it would be a double edged sword because being a 4th or 5th best player in a super strong country (being Stark or Paladin) would mean you wouldn't get to participate. But since Brazil and China can field atleast 6 total super competitive teams it's just totally unfair to smaller nations.

6. You CAN draw a line. A suggestion from earlier: if you're a top player and nobody from your country is in top 300 in 1v1 ladder (or above 1900 or whatever), then you may team up with another such player from a neighbouring country, especially if the said countries have strong historical and/or cultural connection. In the case of me and Daut both of us are in the same situation. Somebody like ProjectBelgium should be able to team up with a high level Dutch player and ClassicPro with a decent Russian player. Let Heart team up with one of the many 2k Brazilians. And same for other cases like these. We're not trying to scam our way to win the tournament, we're just trying to participate on somewhat even grounds.

 

[yodan]

Just sign up as yugoslavia and see if T90 notices 11

 

[Breakfast]

This is the most compelling way anyone has ever said 'notice me senpai'. I can't help but agree.

 

[DracKeN]

I support this idea and I'd like to team Lierrey.

 

[polyomavirus]

In AoElympics (that just finished) we asked the same: host of the tournament made a poll in which captains of other teams (surprisingly) voted that we shouldn't be allowed to team (unless ofc I discovered to have a serbian ancestor which I did not do).

That's very unfortunate - I think it's awkward to leave the decision in the hands of other team captains. IMO, rule changes/definitions like this should ideally be decided by organizers, and not by other teams (due to bias/self-advantaging). A coin flip would be more fair than the latter.

Leaving aside whether or not teaming like this should be allowed, I hope that whatever decision is made, it's not by a poll of competitors.

 

[GmanStreams]

yeah but what about the roman empire bro

 

[teutonic_tanks]

can confirm this guy is a known stacker and cow thief

 

[Paint]

I think tournaments are better if the best players get to play.

 

[AkeNo]

That's the charm of it, it forces players to get out of their comfort zone

 

[Darknoob]

This is a tricky question to answer: on the one hand it is just very unfortunate but it would kill the idea of a ''nations cup'' or world cup tournament. That being said, most of the top teams already come from the same country so in the end its mainly the top teams being split up for 2v2s. The fact that the world cup finals could end up as China A vs China B (just an example) is questionable as well. It kinda kills the fun of seeing new teams/countries that could bring a new flavour to the battlefield.

It would be nice if the tournament admins could take any of these thoughts in consideration or find a nice path in the middle for issues like these. It is just extremely unfortunate if a tournament this size would miss some of the best players that are unable to make a team while for example Brazil could reach the top16 with 4 different teams. I am afraid we will only see about 5 countries in the world cup top16 which is questionable and does not feel like a world cup anymore.

This is a tough problem to deal with because in either way, some strong players will be sacrificed. All the best luck for the hosts to deal with this!

 

[robo]

The fact that the world cup finals could end up as China A vs China B (just an example) is questionable as well.

That is not possible, multiple teams from a country will face each other in the early rounds (Ro16/RO8) of the finals.

 

[Hearttt]

So which southamerican wants to team up with me to bring back the Inca Empire to it's former glory?

 

[Tarsiz]

So which southamerican wants to team up with me to bring back the Inca Empire to it's former glory?

Peru's Leaderboard (top players from Peru )- AOE2 CLUB

AOE2 CLUB. Age Of Empires 2 : Rankings, Stats and more and Always remember the #1 rule.

aoe2.club

Looks like you can switch your usual Tempo partner for a different one.

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

So which southamerican wants to team up with me to bring back the Inca Empire to it's former glory?

U have Peruano Leo Rey

 

[TheViper]

@Spaden Are you ready?

 

[bfish22090]

i know a guy that can give you passport to daut country to cheap euros

 

[hallogallo]

I'm sorry for your situation but honestly that's really not the spirit and charm of a "world cup" in my mind

Regarding your point #5, I'd rather have only one team per country (with internal qualifications beforehand if necessary) than multiple teams. So it's the opposite of the point you want to make haha.

Again I understand your frustration, but yeah.

 

[Carlini8]

If you don't want to team DauT you could also team Luca. Pretty sure he has every passport in the world.

 

[D_Cool]

I do feel bad for players like Modri who are upset at the prospect of getting m left out of a tournament like this.

I am also concerned by potential unintended consequences. Assuming LB10 is not top 300 at time of seeding, this would allow, for example, Liereyy and Jordan. They could conceivably win the thing. And I’m not convinced having a joint Austria/ Germany team win a national teams event is a great look for AOE as an esport.

And whilst teams like Benelux/ Yugoslavia/ PeruBrazil are cool in a way they do stop it from feeling like a nations tournament.

Also, how do you define neighbouring country? Slovenia doesn’t border Serbia - I know they both used to be Yugoslavia but this just highlights the mess defining which countries apply for the purposes of the proposed rule - would Poland and Latvia count? Thailand and Vietnam?

So whilst I would love to find a way for all players who are good enough to be involved, my view is regrettably that it sucks for some people but this is one where life is a little unfair.

Though I have decided I now want a big TG tournament where players sign up as individuals and are randomly allocated teams by the organisers!

 

[Cuth]

I don't like the nation format too much. It excludes too many players. The previous 2v2 tournament was pretty cool with interesting teams.

Even if players like Lierreyyy, Daut and hearttt pick up some random players, they probably wouldn't make it in because of their ELO, right? I suppose China and Brazil can make plenty of competitive teams.

 

[RobChang]

I do feel bad for players like Modri who are upset at the prospect of getting m left out of a tournament like this.

I am also concerned by potential unintended consequences. Assuming LB10 is not top 300 at time of seeding, this would allow, for example, Liereyy and Jordan. They could conceivably win the thing. And I’m not convinced having a joint Austria/ Germany team win a national teams event is a great look for AOE as an esport.

And whilst teams like Benelux/ Yugoslavia/ PeruBrazil are cool in a way they do stop it from feeling like a nations tournament.

Also, how do you define neighbouring country? Slovenia doesn’t border Serbia - I know they both used to be Yugoslavia but this just highlights the mess defining which countries apply for the purposes of the proposed rule - would Poland and Latvia count? Thailand and Vietnam?

So whilst I would love to find a way for all players who are good enough to be involved, my view is regrettably that it sucks for some people but this is one where life is a little unfair.

Though I have decided I now want a big TG tournament where players sign up as individuals and are randomly allocated teams by the organisers!

Thats why the format of a nations cup is really hard to handle, it JUST arises problems of various kinds and a lot of discussion that are now just fueled by 30k worth of dollars.
Why would you make any national contest without having national organizations that clearly define what you mean and then every orga can only send out one team.

 

[RichNixon]

Come on guys, there's an easy solution: Modri and Daut just fix all the problems and tension within the Balkans and reunite the former Yugoslav republics before WC2020 starts. How hard can it be?

 

[JoshuaR]

Yeah this is tough. I would support allowing this type of team merger (Modri/Daut)... But one thing you could do to prevent super-teams is just ban the practice if you DO have the option of playing with a country-man within x number points, say +/- 400

E.G. DauT and Modri could team up together unless DauT has a second Serbian near-ish to his strength as an option, or Modri similarly had a partner somewhere within range.

So if a 2400 player ONLY has the OPTION of a 1600 player to team with, and let's say the limit was +/- 400, then they have the option of playing with a regional partner instead of a countryman since otherwise they're not even playing with someone near their level, let alone having a chance to compete.

If the 2100 player has an 1800 player available within their country, then they MUST partner with that player or not play at all. They can't go find someone from a neighboring country to play with.

If there's a 2400 and 2300 player in a country, and a 2400 and 2200 in another country, they CAN'T form regional teams of 2400-2400 and 2300-2200 to be even MORE competitive. They must play with their countrymen.

 

[nimanoe]

Given that Modri and DauT both were born in the same nation, I'd say their situation is very similar with that of players who were born in a nation but have been living in another for a long time but still prefer to play for their nation of birth. Take Feanor and Melkor for example: They have US citizenship, but have been living in Ireland for most of their live, but still were able to compete for the US. The only difference here is that the nation that DauT and Modri want to play for no longer exists.

 

[HongeyKong]

Given that Modri and DauT both were born in the same nation, I'd say their situation is very similar with that of players who were born in a nation but have been living in another for a long time but still prefer to play for their nation of birth. Take Feanor and Melkor for example: They have US citizenship, but have been living in Ireland for most of their live, but still were able to compete for the US. The only difference here is that the nation that DauT and Modri want to play for no longer exists.