I also don't understand why the "premier" aoe2 series of the year is going to serve as a beta test for HD balance.
A castle age technology at the Castle is not going to make up for a poor early game 11keeping the movement boost for all cavalry, no access to Husbandry and make Tusk Swords give 0.2+ blast radius so they get cheap and early access to the blast to make up their poor early game
Mongols get the strongest Dark Age economic bonus, and despite that they are hardly broken.
Mongols broken? they are average at least
i should learn to readHardly broken means that they are not broken, even though they have this strong bonus
They will. It's the lopsided type of balance that doesn't work. A double bonus like that for scouts is definitely broken especially since faster movement speed is not given to any unit in the early game except for Men-at-Arms for the Celts. It's a conscious balance decision not to have any speed bonuses until castle age or imperial age.Mongols get the strongest Dark Age economic bonus, and despite that they are hardly broken. I doubt Khmer will break the meta with 15% faster Scouts with the skipping Barrack trick, specially if their Castle Age and Early Imperial follow up are heavily lackluster.
because you apperently are unable to read?I also don't understand why the "premier" aoe2 series of the year is going to serve as a beta test for HD balance.
Precisely. As previously stated, unless a huge exploit is found because of these changes (which I don't see happening because they seem all quite reasonable, but who knows), these changes are coming to HD. It's just that since HD can't be updated right now for technical reasons, ECL is going ahead and implementing them already to keep a consistent balance for when the HD updates rolls in.because you apperently are unable to read?
It's not a beta test it will come anyway but later than the ECL starts for some reason we don't know.
But it's not because it will be tested during ECL 11
It's alright, we all want the best for the game and have strong opinions about it, but at the end of the day we all care for the same thing fighting for your opinions shows you care about them and believe in them, and with that behavior we can all make progress.Sorry, I got carried away in some comments here and there, not cool.
Devs have, not only a tough, but also ungrateful job. And I have realized, they know more about what is feasible and acceptable to change, than I do.
because you apperently are unable to read?
It's not a beta test it will come anyway but later than the ECL starts for some reason we don't know.
But it's not because it will be tested during ECL 11
Beta test was probably an incorrect way to put it, it is a pre release version. Since HD can't be updated at the moment, ECL has decided to use some of the upcoming HD balance changes, the most important ones that address imbalances in the game.Zak's announcement literally says, "The Escape Champions League will use some balance changes in the maps for the upcoming event(s). This will serve as a betatest for Forgotten Empires." (emphasis mine)
I don't really have a problem with the event using balance changes that are coming as soon as technically feasible, but all the announcements make their upcoming balance changes seem a bit more nebulous. For instance, when I mentioned the lack of nerf to halbs vs camels, I was told that there were more balance changes that would come in the official release. So, which is it? Is it a beta test for five of many more balance changes? Or are there literally only these five changes that can only not be implemented in HD because HD is somehow broken?
Again, no problem with implementing final set-in-stone balance changes to keep the tournament consistent, but when the host of the tournament literally calls it a beta test, that raises eyebrows.
That said, I have no problem with a tournament host choosing various specific settings for a tournament (such as market nerfs to reduce sling and so forth), and I don't mind if the rationale is literally to improve entertainment by reducing trushes. But serving as a beta test... just weird.
Zak's announcement literally says, "The Escape Champions League will use some balance changes in the maps for the upcoming event(s). This will serve as a betatest for Forgotten Empires." (emphasis mine)
This is a great ideaIf you want a cavalry speed bonus for khmers it would be more balance to have it be cavalry 5/10/15% faster in feudal/castle/imp. But you would need to disable husbandry to make it not be too strong for knights, and elephants badly need husbandry.
If balance is an issue it would also be just 15% starting Castle Age or 5%/15%/15%, too, obviously no Husbandry in tech tree. I just don't like much 10% no husbandry in Castle Age since it is effectively just free Husbandry, which isn't a very expensive tech anyway.This is a great idea
Hold on.
How come no one listened to all of the “noobs” complaining that trush is stupid, but now are all complaining it is stupid?? ****ing hypocritical fanbase
Really good post. I was making a shitpost but you responded seriously with a smart responseIf you, as a noob: have over a minute of idle time in dark age; don't scout it coming from seeing his eco setup; don't wall; don't have any early presence on the map to prevent it; don't realise it's coming from the early feudal time; don't see the first tower come up; don't pull villagers to try and stop it early, and complain trush (or any other strategy in general for that matter) is overpowered, is that a fair complaint?
It's easy to say, well you could have done any of the above things and maybe it would have helped. When the noob is making mistakes, not recognising counterplay opportunities or executing upon them, then it's not necessarily the strategy being overpowered as opposed to it is the noob playing badly. For example: a classic complaint is that Britons are overpowered on black forest due to longbow spam and not knowing that counterplay exists in using rams in front to soak arrows which completely and utterly changes how that game plays.
When expert players do some/all of the above or more and still find that even with these attempted find that it is difficult to stop the trush (or X strategy), then what can you say they should have done better? What other options are there? Do we just need to wait and see if new strategies to counter this develop? It's much harder to make a call because expert players are playing much closer to the limits of the game and pushing the boundaries on what we know to be possible at the current time.
The noob can be complaining about the right thing for the wrong reasons. It's like what you might call a "pub stomp" strategy in other games. To a completely new player of aoe2 any kind of rush or even a poorly executed FC is op, they just don't know how to deal with it - it's unfortunately a "git gud" situation, not a genuine reason to change the game. If you listened to every complaint made by the general playerbase you'd be probably both buffing and nerfing everything at the same time.
If you, as a noob: have over a minute of idle time in dark age; don't scout it coming from seeing his eco setup; don't wall; don't have any early presence on the map to prevent it; don't realise it's coming from the early feudal time; don't see the first tower come up; don't pull villagers to try and stop it early, and complain trush (or any other strategy in general for that matter) is overpowered, is that a fair complaint?
Yes, but some strategies are easier to pull off than to counter at a noob level, that's why noobs complain about trushes. They find the strategy hard to stop even with equal level opponents.I only disagree with one thing that pete said, normally on the other side the person that is winning is also a noob who makes as much mistakes