ECL Questions & Answers

Finlandbuhanisson

Longswordman
May 29, 2015
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"Would you be willing to spend hours to help us when we remove your current priviledges?" And even if they were, theres still the question of time zones. But yeah, I too'd be interested in hearing from the organizers themselves if its realistic any time in te future.
 

AustriaThePr0phet

Known Member
Nov 14, 2017
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I know I always have a very strict and harsh approach to such topics. and i take the flame.
but why just not excluding all chinese players? Sure china is big lot of people and big for growing if it starts growing. But I still think that the biggest community is in Europe if you piss of the people here it is worse than not having them "with us". If they dont show any understanding of the situation and trying to take a step towards "us".
Would the organizers be ok. if Viper would decide to stream it there POV because then it is "ok".. dont think so. they would very quick find a solution. but only because they dont speak english or just dont show any interest in helping and the money and viewers they "lose" is not big, they just dont care about it.

If we get to those prizepools and everything is online there should be probably a paid admin at that point, who earns money for looking at those streams etc and if they dont follow the rules they get kicked off the tournament and just dont play in those big prizepools anymore.

Me personally, I dont have a problem with 5 top players less. There are enough players who follow the rules who I like to watch... but just a mad mans (in aoe community terms) opinion
 

ChinaMr_Yo

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somehow ppl in china prefer to watch a game live even with tons of problems like fp drop pause

even if this match goes from 8pm to 5am

especially when it comes to a player's pov they like ,so they can feel the

passion/anger/happniess/sadness same as the players ,laugh with them cry with them

which is one of the main difference between stream and tranditional tv

Here's the fact , i tried to stream a match from ECL which i think no one had spoil the result ,

and have lower viewers than playing a random 18+ nomad game , not to mention a tournament pov

and it was AM vs Serect .

I am sure there are ppl who are fine to watch the rec, but sadly it is the fact that as a streamer it's simply

not worthy for me, so i would rather not to stream any ECL recs, and it is the biggest reason

why none chinese streamers want to stream them.

with that being said , if streaming recording games is the future as some said , so be it

We'll still follow the streaming rules if nothing changes , as least i'll tell them not to break it.

But if you dont want to just give up whole chinese viewers from douyu/panda tv ,who helped make Clan

Master(the prize was raised in paladin's stream) and some small invitaional show match

here is a solution i can think of

we can put password in stream channel when streaming , it is doable in douyu , and we can just write

on the stream title saying if you want the password join our QQ gourp , this forbids any foreigners who

wants to watch our stream and know the result.And with twtich and discord blocked in China , i honestly

dont think there will be ppl would bother use VPN go to twtich just to spoil the results.

it's just one idea of mine ,it will be great if ppl can give more suggestions.i really hope we can find a

solution soon since ECL is such a good tournament and there are two chinese team competing ,it

shouldnt go silent here in douyu like now.

thanks!

btw just wanna ask , is there actual ppl spoiling results on any twtich channel?
 
Mar 10, 2018
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btw just wanna ask , is there actual ppl spoiling results on any twtich channel?
As far as I understood most recent spoiling has (mostly?) taken place on Discord.
I personaly have only been spoiled for the first stage (one time via twitch (accidentially by the streamer) and one time on AoEZone when someone was wondering about Vivi's stream title).
But i have been spoiled neither for the second nor the current stage, that however might be lucky on my end, despite watching AoE streams several hours a day if possible 11
 
May 29, 2010
192
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I like what Yo said, which is good for Chinese players and their viewers because the rec. streaming is just impossible in their cases -- the viewers would prefer to watch the random live games.

However, I don't think the admin will find a solution here. At the beginning of ECL, the admin actually did not state clear enough for the policy of the Chinese streaming. Only after several rounds, they forbid them streaming. Well, I believe that suddenly these top Chinese streamers lost huge money for not being able to stream in live. This will not affect the other teams because no other teams would like to stream tournament games in live.

I don't think the other teams will support the admin to make the exception for Mr. Yo or so, in particular now the two Chinese teams are in #2 and #3. I think Secret won't care (they can easily take #1 spot) and Heresy won't care (everyone knows) -- however all the other 6 teams still have the chance to compete the second place. Indeed, if ECL live streaming is not allowed in China, definitely their top players will lose the interest (no extra motivation) and then they will eventually drop from the standing.

Anyway, I think this should not bother Yo a lot, they need to figure out other ways to increase the viewers. ECL is just one tournament (and not supported by SY), that's it. The prize is not that much -- see the amount of $ for BO37 between Viper and Daut?

Just my personal opinion: live streaming from the players in serious tournament should not be allowed! But if everyone agrees that AOC is dying, then that's another story -- do whatever you can to increase the viewers!!!
 
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UnknownLanchi

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Dec 19, 2016
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Very greeting seeing Mr.Yo says his POV here

somehow ppl in china prefer to watch a game live even with tons of problems like fp drop pause
even if this match goes from 8pm to 5am
especially when it comes to a player's pov they like ,so they can feel the
passion/anger/happniess/sadness same as the players ,laugh with them cry with them
which is one of the main difference between stream and tranditional tv
This part is actually for viewers all over the world, everyone prefer live and POV stream
Battle of Angkor, EGM1~3, All-Stars, ... many Escape event already "trained" us get used to not live. The one who hate rec casting already goes away or know no matter how much he talk Escape Gaming is not going to change it, so they stop.

Here's the fact , i tried to stream a match from ECL which i think no one had spoil the result,
and have lower viewers than playing a random 18+ nomad game , not to mention a tournament pov
and it was AM vs Serect.
I am sure there are ppl who are fine to watch the rec, but sadly it is the fact that as a streamer it's simply
not worthy for me, so i would rather not to stream any ECL recs, and it is the biggest reason
why none chinese streamers want to stream them.
This is not a fair comparison. First that AM and Secret fans count is way less than both china teams in china, and viewers actually know the result
 If you mean 4v4 then viewers saw Secret vs SY in final already
 If you mean 3v3 then viewers saw Secret vs Frantic in final already
How to make a fair comparison?
1. All china players don't tell any viewer in any way about the scheduling, the bracket, the result, every thing
2. Choose a time to cast the rec with wide announcement, (at least one china team need to be in this match)
Ofc viewers may less than POV live, but shouldn't less than 18+ nomad.
But another problem comes, that this time you already know the result.
I remember china also have some caster that not in both team, right? like 秋桥?
Actually in all ECL rooster, maybe only TaToH do the casting work.

we can put password in stream channel when streaming , it is doable in douyu , and we can just write
on the stream title saying if you want the password join our QQ gourp , this forbids any foreigners who
wants to watch our stream and know the result.And with twtich and discord blocked in China , i honestly
dont think there will be ppl would bother use VPN go to twtich just to spoil the results.
Maybe twitch can't do this, but what if for example Viper found another platform, and ask to stream POV with password protected, and post the pwd in discord? Admins don't seems to accept this

btw just wanna ask , is there actual ppl spoiling results on any twtich channel?
I believe 99.9% viewer won't do this. The main problem shouldn't be the spoiler thing if we say that who go to douyu means he want himself to be spoiled.
Problem comes from some team allowed to stream pov/live some team not
and some team get punish/warning for letting viewer know the result and some team not
 
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May 29, 2010
192
13
18
Only now i know spoil result will be strike, now i have 100 VOD evidence on douyu.tv, sec

(I mean after vivi been warning)
I think most people know that they streamed in live for the first several rounds (and thanks to you for the great effort repeating here and there again and again). I believe you had talked (or messaged) to the admin many times about this issue, and the admin made the call (forbid them to stream in live again). After that, Vivi broke the rule once (and receive a warning) -- that's why the clear rule is important, they got the punishment.

As ppl said, there is no perfect way to avoid the complete spoiling. If you are a friend of the player, you can manage to know the result no matter what, and there are chances that you "spoiled" the result. If you are "smart" enough, you can actually guess the result: check the players streaming, seeing them frustrated, not being motivated, not training at all, you know something bad happen; on the other hand, you can also tell that they must WON a big fight from the webcam. Is this a spoiling? -- at least implicitly.

Overall, streaming the rec game is GOOD, but every coin has two sides. IMO, streaming the rec and avoiding the spoiling is asking TOO MUCH.
 

UnknownLanchi

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Dec 19, 2016
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I think most people know that they streamed in live for the first several rounds (and thanks to you for the great effort repeating here and there again and again). I believe you had talked (or messaged) to the admin many times about this issue, and the admin made the call (forbid them to stream in live again). After that, Vivi broke the rule once (and receive a warning) -- that's why the clear rule is important, they got the punishment.
I only ask Robo at first 1v1 stage, and he answered that they were ok with it
After that not my business
And I NEVER said anything on AoEZone in the time that the "first several rounds" you said
 

Netherlandsrustyknivess

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I have not read every post in this topic but I always prefer watching live games over recording games.

I remember that last live TG tournament where VNS picked the wrong civ and LoS was kinda mad about it or Stark and happyhappy in the last 1v1 tourney. Of course fp and drops are annoying but seeing the players interact with each other is also fun to see.

I think the viewers of douyu/panda prefer seeing their fellow countryman play instead of non CN players in the finals.

If I could understand CN I would also prefer to watch the PoV instead of a weekend ECL. Don't get me wrong the casting and format of ECL is great but it's just less hype than any other major tournaments we had.

It's nice to see Yo's writing. It kinda reminds me of kkab writing on aoezone when he suggested that Tyrant could participate in Nation's Cup or when WiC was seeded wrongly.
 

GermanyAthasos

Longswordman
Jul 8, 2017
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I am very thankful for Mr. Yo to give his perspective.
It is indeed a very unfortunate situation as chinese streamers suddenly have lost a big part of their streaming content.
I was one of the persons who was troubled by the hypocrisy of letting people from a certain country stream freely, while the rest wasn't allowed to do so.
The fact, that casting games doesn't seem to be as big in china as in the rest of the world is also an issue, that needs to be adressed.


Streaming recorded games is NOT the future.

It is a compromise, as aoe2 isn't that big of an esorts to force players to play at certain times.
That's the real reason why escape decided to cast recorded games.
It is nice to avoid break between matches and to be able to plan how long the stream will go, but those are just sideeffect.
No reasonable person can say casting recorded games is better than livegames.
There is downtime in traditional sports as well, sometimes there is rain and a game of football has to be cancelled or fans use fireworks and a game is suspended for 10 minutes.
Nobody complains about such stuff and thinks the game should be casted at a later time to avoid such situations.

Anyhow, with aoe being where it is right now it seems to be a good idea to cast recorded games, but I would like to encourage Zak and the Admins to overthink their decisions from time to time, maybe in some situations it's possible to get a live final, why not being flexible?
You know in advance which players will be in the final (at least robo does) and if it were to happen that Viper and Daut or Mbl meet in a 1v1 final, it might be possible to arrange them playing the final live at an agreed time.

But back to the chinese streamer situation.
I think, that they should be allowed to stream live again.
There is apparently nobody who watches recorded games in china and therefore ECL would get close to 0 screentime in china, that would be very bad.
It's unfair, but sometimes things are unfair and as said before spoiling results isn't really a problem.
Most spoilers come from "western" stream or discord anyway ...
 
Mar 12, 2018
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all i would like to see added to ecl streams is that casters can talk about the map picks and civ picks before a series starts because i think thats the only thing missing from the 100% live games feel because not every viewer knows what map pools and civ pools are available.

Most times i have seen people like me asking in the chat to mods and other viewers. If that casters just take like 2-3 mins before starting a new series to explain all this then in my opinion the experience of old school viewers like me and others will improve. I hope you take this into consideration.
 

United KingdomFall

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It's only escape tournaments that use recs so far I think, not other major tournaments.

It's a shame since ECL is/is meant to be the premiere event for AoE but is being overshadowed by other tournaments which follow the more traditional twitch model of livestreaming. (The point of twitch is to livestream gameplay and events after all...)

If the take home message of ECL is that we have to settle for recorded games and that AoE isn't good enough for live events then it will have done more harm than good. I suspect that the limitations of HD have made this decision easier to make than it should have been and the negative ramifications were underestimated or not an issue for the organizers.

I think it would have been better to use ECL as the turning point/catalyst for players to take events more professionally / make a bigger commitment, especially given the prize money now being put forward. Either the organizers weren't ambitious enough in that regard or are perhaps a bit more cynical about our players than I am.

Personally I hope that this is not the case and that AoE can aspire to a similar quality of tournaments that other games have.
 
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Irelanddooog

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Mar 3, 2018
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somehow ppl in china prefer to watch a game live even with tons of problems like fp drop pause

even if this match goes from 8pm to 5am

especially when it comes to a player's pov they like ,so they can feel the

passion/anger/happniess/sadness same as the players ,laugh with them cry with them

which is one of the main difference between stream and tranditional tv

Here's the fact , i tried to stream a match from ECL which i think no one had spoil the result ,

and have lower viewers than playing a random 18+ nomad game , not to mention a tournament pov

and it was AM vs Serect .

I am sure there are ppl who are fine to watch the rec, but sadly it is the fact that as a streamer it's simply

not worthy for me, so i would rather not to stream any ECL recs, and it is the biggest reason

why none chinese streamers want to stream them.

Think this pretty much reinforces what so many have been saying about ECL in Europe and Americas and the viewer numbers on twitch also prove it. Live games will always be more exciting and immersive than week old recs, both from the build up and broadcast perspective.
 

South Africaaskl56

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Mar 7, 2018
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To ask the obvious question, if I'm a user who goes and reads discord in channels where the result has been spoiled, is that the original competition's fault? ECL has many criticisms, some which are valid (it is longer than the time to give birth to a human, or do a murder trial in anywhere outside the US), but this doesn't seem to be one of them. If someone spoils the season finale of breaking bad because they downloaded it off The Pirate Bay, do you get mad at Vince Gilligan? If anything its the moderators of the discord who should do something about it but ultimately, its your own responsibility. If you go to channels where this stuff happens then you can't be surprised when it does and it ruins the news that mbl has been beaten by some 1400 scrub from Papua New Guinea.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Just my 2c

//askl
 
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It's only escape tournaments that use recs so far I think, not other major tournaments.

It's a shame since ECL is/is meant to be the premiere event for AoE but is being overshadowed by other tournaments which follow the more traditional twitch model of livestreaming. (The point of twitch is to livestream gameplay and events after all...)

If the take home message of ECL is that we have to settle for recorded games and that AoE isn't good enough for live events then it will have done more harm than good. I suspect that the limitations of HD have made this decision easier to make than it should have been and the negative ramifications were underestimated or not an issue for the organizers.

I think it would have been better to use ECL as the turning point/catalyst for players to take events more professionally / make a bigger commitment, especially given the prize money now being put forward. Either the organizers weren't ambitious enough in that regard or are perhaps a bit more cynical about our players than I am.

Personally I hope that this is not the case and that AoE can aspire to a similar quality of tournaments that other games have.
The main purpose of ecl was never to be the Premiere aoe tournament but to award players who do not earn anything from playing aoe some monetary compensation which zak has stated multiple times. If he wanted to make it into The Premiere competition of aoe he would have had a one month event like you are referring to.

And we see that happening as today we see more players being active, practicing to get the a share of the pie.

And finally live vs recorded debate ! seriously ? at this point it seems to not even make any sense to argue with people who have fixated on one issue that we want to feel what the players feel and all escape tournaments were recs as far as i know, well apart from lan finals.
 
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Can you get a new picture added to the HD launcher? Maybe a general one without dates. Currently it is still advertising the Africa stage.
 

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