2023 AoE 2 Nations Cup [$18,622 Prize Pool]

Dear AoE 2 community, this topic (Nations Cup Waiting Room) has hurt me a lot. In summer 2020, I already tried to give the community something similar with the 2020 AOElympics while waiting. Many of us believed the follow-up of the great 2017 Nations Cup would come soon, in 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022... But it never came.

Therefore, I am offering you my approach. I will organise the 2023 4v4 Nations Cup, starting in around 5 weeks. Registration will be open until Saturday, January 28, 20 GMT. The qualification stage will begin in the following week.
This will be a tournament for fun and prestige. However, if anyone wants to contribute to a prize pool, you can do so via the tournament's Matcherino page: https://matcherino.com/t/nc23 where you also can see the current donation sum at all times.

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The exact rules and settings will follow soon, but some important key points are:

• The main event will consist of a group stage (8x4 teams) and a double-elimination knockout stage.
• Max. 4 teams from one nation can enter the main event.
• Teams consist of 4-10 players, substition and addition of backup players will be possible at certain stages of the tournament.
• When a team registers, they have to give list of up to 5 maps which they want to have in the tournament. The maps with the most points will be added to the map pool. So you decide a part of the map pool!
• How exactly the qualifying phase works will depend on the number of registered teams; more about that later.
• A Silver League for teams that don't qualify for the 32-team group stage will happen, if we have enough interested teams.

Staff currently are @Huehuecoyotl22, @enmipho, @paradox303, @welcometorapture and @Akkal.

Any questions and discussion, as well as the registration can start on the 2023 Nations Cup Discord now: https://discord.gg/5fBkzfqHhb

Everybody is welcome!

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The maps with the most points will be added to the map pool

How many maps will be added / how many maps will there be in total in the end?

 

How many maps will be added / how many maps will there be in total in the end?

Not sure yet. But should be more than 10 in total, and less than 40. It will depend a bit on how many maps are voted for how often. If there are lot of different maps with lots of points it might be more than if the 10 most-voted maps have many more points than other maps.
So if I predict now, I would rather guess in the range of 15-20, but it is not fixed yet.

 

@enmipho and @paradox303 already have offered to join the organisation team.
We will work on the rules and settings this week, but with almost 6 weeks (and until after Chinese New Year), there is good time to get everything planned well and give you the best community Nations Cup we can offer.

Edit: @welcometorapture has joined the team too.

 

@paradox303 has become the tournament's official treasurer. So he will manage the finances and if you have any questions about it, please contact him.

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

Why doesn't Microsoft fund this?

 

Why doesn't Microsoft fund this?

They don't want a repeat of TGM, especially in Nation cup and even more if Qatar had a team.

 

So if I predict now, I would rather guess in the range of 15-20, but it is not fixed yet.

I would really urge you not to go wild with the number of maps, please. Even at 15, that's a lot of maps to keep track of, both for players and viewers. More than that and it just waters down the quality of preparation and willingness of people to pick a range.

 

Even at 15, that's a lot of maps to keep track of

Do we even have 15 fun and different enough non-gimmicky maps for TGs? Michi/Arabia clones don't count.

 

 

TGs are almost always longer than 1v1s.
So BO7 or more feel too long. So a map set of 10 should be enough.
BO3 for Group+quaters, BO5 for semis, BO7 for finals.

 

TGs are almost always longer than 1v1s.
So BO7 or more feel too long. So a map set of 10 should be enough.
BO3 for Group+quaters, BO5 for semis, BO7 for finals.

For the match lengths we will most likely keep it traditional, like we have seen it in most recent TG tournaments (Nomad Wars, BoA, RotC, etc.):
Semifinals and Final Bo7, other KO stage matches Bo5.
Group stage Pa3.
Qualifiers: Last round Bo5, previous rounds Bo3.

Regarding the maps and map numbers, we will get a much clearer picture what the majority of players who play in the tournament want, when teams actually register and enter their map wishes.

I am aware that TG are different than 1v1, but I disagree with
- that there are not 15 maps which are unique enough to be used; we do not have many mixed standard map TG tournaments, but in 1v1, Warlords had 21 maps and The Resurgence had 18.
- that the map pool only needs to be slightly bigger than the final's maximum amount of games - as a viewer I get bored if every set of a tournament has 80+ % the same maps.

If you already are preparing a team, you can try to make lists of your top 15 maps and see how good or bad those would be. I can give you an example, just based on subjective perception of what I have seen played a lot in tournaments and ranked/unranked games in the last years.
1. Arabia
2. Black Forest
3. Arena
4. Nomad
5. Team Acropolis
6. Atacama
7. Land Nomad
8. Chaos Pit
9. Fortress
10. Gold Rush
11. Golden Pit
12. Hideout
13. Migration
14. Team Islands
15. Mediterranean
I am not saying that this is a perfect map pool and it would not be my personal choice, but I think it is a good example of a map list nobody should feel uncomfortable with.

 

Just to update everyone, thank you to everyone that donates.

If you would like to donate you can do so via my Twitch page or at [email protected] on PayPal.

Any donations large or small are much appreciated! Some donations may be received in pounds. It is best to send in USD if you can, if not no problem!

We currently sit at $1550

TheMadCADer, $1400 on 21/12
LowEloNobody, $100 on 21/12
paradox303, $50 on 21/12

 

It's probably not intended, but drawing contries' frontiers (in the banner) in cases, which are officially under dispute, might be perceived as a political statement.

Very very very hyped about the tournament, though. Thank you so much for organizing this after all those years =)

 

It's probably not intended, but drawing contries' frontiers (in the banner) in cases, which are officially under dispute, might be perceived as a political statement.

I am aware that this problem will always come up once a nation-based event happens. However,
1. This is just the announcement banner, we will have a different, official, more professional banner to be used by streamers later, and
2. I have already learned that it is safer to talk about "nations" than "countries", because teams will definitely not be based on what is internationally and undisputedly recognised as a "country" or "state".

 

2. I have already learned that it is safer to talk about "nations" than "countries", because teams will definitely not be based on what is internationally and undisputedly recognised as a "country" or "state".

What exactly do you mean by that? Because there are not thaaat many cases (relevant to aoe2 players) where a country is not recognised (by most). Please do not tell me you plan on allowing teams from different countries where there is really no doubt, like austria + swiss (just an example), just to get better individual teams

 

What exactly do you mean by that? Because there are not thaaat many cases (relevant to aoe2 players) where a country is not recognised (by most). Please do not tell me you plan on allowing teams from different countries where there is really no doubt, like austria + swiss (just an example), just to get better individual teams

No, I mean cases like Taiwan, Hong Kong, Palestine, Kosovo, Scotland, Wales, etc. (Scotland and Wales, because you could argue that you may only represent GB/UK, but not England, Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales).

 

perfect, thank you

 

For the match lengths we will most likely keep it traditional, like we have seen it in most recent TG tournaments (Nomad Wars, BoA, RotC, etc.):
Semifinals and Final Bo7, other KO stage matches Bo5.
Group stage Pa3.
Qualifiers: Last round Bo5, previous rounds Bo3.

Regarding the maps and map numbers, we will get a much clearer picture what the majority of players who play in the tournament want, when teams actually register and enter their map wishes.

I am aware that TG are different than 1v1, but I disagree with
- that there are not 15 maps which are unique enough to be used; we do not have many mixed standard map TG tournaments, but in 1v1, Warlords had 21 maps and The Resurgence had 18.
- that the map pool only needs to be slightly bigger than the final's maximum amount of games - as a viewer I get bored if every set of a tournament has 80+ % the same maps.

If you already are preparing a team, you can try to make lists of your top 15 maps and see how good or bad those would be. I can give you an example, just based on subjective perception of what I have seen played a lot in tournaments and ranked/unranked games in the last years.
1. Arabia
2. Black Forest
3. Arena
4. Nomad
5. Team Acropolis
6. Atacama
7. Land Nomad
8. Chaos Pit
9. Fortress
10. Gold Rush
11. Golden Pit
12. Hideout
13. Migration
14. Team Islands
15. Mediterranean
I am not saying that this is a perfect map pool and it would not be my personal choice, but I think it is a good example of a map list nobody should feel uncomfortable with.

A larger map pool sadly does not equate to more variety. You can check warlords and see the frequency of maps used.
Can we ban the most picked map from the previous round? Its similar to what was done with civs in wandering warrior cup. This will make sure a map pool of 15 is used and you get unique maps in the finals.

 

Love it! China, Finland and Brasil will probably be the favourites here. Super Hyped. I hope there can be some joint teams though, like Balkan. I think we had these discussion multiple times already, but I'd like most players at least have an opportunity to take part

 

We are now handling all donations over on Matcherino as suggested by Adico.

Main benefits are:
- Fully transparent (people can see their donations and everyone else can see who and how much they donated)
- Allows for people to donate with debit/credit cards (so not even having to pay that high transfer)
- Once the event is over people can be paid out quickly and they can even link their bank accounts (depending on country), or Paypal to take out the cash themselves.
- One less thing for me to stress about

If you would like to donate you can do so via Matcherino: https://matcherino.com/t/nc23

 

@paradox303 has become the tournament's official treasurer. So he will manage the finances and if you want to contribute to the tournament funds, you can message him or already find his donation contact on his Twitch page: https://www.twitch.tv/paradox303/about.
If you donate there, please mention that it will be for the 2023 Nations Cup.

Better to edit this comment now that you have a different way to contribute to the prize pool

 

For the match lengths we will most likely keep it traditional, like we have seen it in most recent TG tournaments (Nomad Wars, BoA, RotC, etc.):
Semifinals and Final Bo7, other KO stage matches Bo5.
Group stage Pa3.
Qualifiers: Last round Bo5, previous rounds Bo3.

Regarding the maps and map numbers, we will get a much clearer picture what the majority of players who play in the tournament want, when teams actually register and enter their map wishes.

I am aware that TG are different than 1v1, but I disagree with
- that there are not 15 maps which are unique enough to be used; we do not have many mixed standard map TG tournaments, but in 1v1, Warlords had 21 maps and The Resurgence had 18.
- that the map pool only needs to be slightly bigger than the final's maximum amount of games - as a viewer I get bored if every set of a tournament has 80+ % the same maps.

If you already are preparing a team, you can try to make lists of your top 15 maps and see how good or bad those would be. I can give you an example, just based on subjective perception of what I have seen played a lot in tournaments and ranked/unranked games in the last years.
1. Arabia
2. Black Forest
3. Arena
4. Nomad
5. Team Acropolis
6. Atacama
7. Land Nomad
8. Chaos Pit
9. Fortress
10. Gold Rush
11. Golden Pit
12. Hideout
13. Migration
14. Team Islands
15. Mediterranean
I am not saying that this is a perfect map pool and it would not be my personal choice, but I think it is a good example of a map list nobody should feel uncomfortable with.

Every piece of feedback you have gotten on maps has *begged* you to not have dozens of crazy maps, and yet you just ignore all of it.

 

I have also in mind that there was discussion about the amount of maps and/or some exotic ones. However I couldn't remember the map rules for the past NC and if I see it correctly we had
NC'17: Map Pack 33
NC 2: Homemaps ~70?, Map Pack 26
NC 1: Homemaps ~70?, Map Pack 33
According to that 15 maps would be on the lower end.
Also having people voting on maps, should rather lead to more common maps and not "crazy maps" (@LowEloNobody )

I would like to see a NC. I just hope it doesn't bring up to much drama, even though some trouble is probably likely to happen and I wish the admins a good balance of an ear for feedback and a thick skin to make for a good tourney overall.

I guess there was feedback on the old nation cups. Not sure which, but ofc would be good to have that somewhat in mind if applicable and not forgotten in the dust of history.