Major Priority |
Malay |
- Unit: Elite Karambit
- TaToH: I feel like karambit are a bit overpowered in 1vs1, they do really good vs trash units as their prize is low and creation speed is too fast. They are good for raiding, and good against almost any melee unit used in 1vs1. You can send them to die against low army and still do almost always good trades for you as you can have 50 in 1 min again.
Hyuna: Their main problem actually isn't the 0.5 pop. It's their freaking creation speed and cost. Imo it should cost 30f 15g take as long as samurai to make and have -1 attack. Samurai still two hit them and they can't push into mass hc/slinger/catas/boyar/ETK/Ejag/EBerserk but those are UUs which not many have. Making them one pop takes their uniqueness away and Shotels would basically be the better choice.
Karambit spam is worse than Goth spam of champions yet I consider Goth spam balanced because champions without platemail have such an easy counter and they don't move as fast. If they take up 0.5 pop they should be as good as 0.5 pop. Right now they are as good as 0.75 pop. Fun fact: they take up 1 garrison pop spot.
- TaToH: I'd lower their creation speed to at least double ( 5s to 10s ) and lower their attack from 8 to 7. Imo change their armor is useless because they die quite fast anyways.
Nicov: There are 2 simple changes I can imagine atm: make them cost 1 pop again so you don't spam 120 karambit in 2 minutes anymore. Also increase the creation time.
Rorarimbo: Also Karambit warriors I would say slower production time and full 1 pop. The half population space have never made sence to me not only it makes them OP but we have galleons and War wagons for 1 pop space not more why go away from 1 pop per unit rule.
- TaToH: I feel like karambit are a bit overpowered in 1vs1, they do really good vs trash units as their prize is low and creation speed is too fast. They are good for raiding, and good against almost any melee unit used in 1vs1. You can send them to die against low army and still do almost always good trades for you as you can have 50 in 1 min again.
Malians |
- Bonus: Wood bonus ( 15% )
- TaToH: I think malians have enough bonus, and they save so much wood from this, making almost useless teutons, huns, japanese "wood" bonus.
Hyuna: Fine bonus TG. Could be OP 1v1 I don't think it needs nerf. Everyone tells me lategame Malian is awkward with no real pushing power. I think it's fine. They got enough nerfs recently.
- TaToH: I'd lower it to 10% or even 5%.
Nicov: Wood bonus reduced to 10%, as tatoh says.
- TaToH: I think malians have enough bonus, and they save so much wood from this, making almost useless teutons, huns, japanese "wood" bonus.
- Bonus: +1 armor / age
- TaToH: I think it is too much, makes almost impossible to deal vs malians in post imperial ( 1vs1 games ) just because their pikeman are impossible to kill. They have so much bonus that make them hold for it as well.
- TaToH: I''d make it +1 feudal and castle, and remove imperial age one, so at least you have +6 as max.
- TaToH: I think it is too much, makes almost impossible to deal vs malians in post imperial ( 1vs1 games ) just because their pikeman are impossible to kill. They have so much bonus that make them hold for it as well.
Italians |
- Unit: Condottiero
- TaToH: I think the idea behind Condo was a unit enable to counter gundpowder. Now is used mainly to kill in early imp because their stats are just too good for that. Also, they are created fast and they are affected by civ bonus so some civs are extremely good with this units ( Malians, Goths, Aztecs, Burmese, Japanese... )
Soufire: they are basically champs and perform much better than its original purpose
- TaToH: I'd say their stats are good for late game. So i'd not lower stats because that will make them a bit underpower for their objetive. Make actual condo as 'Elite Condo', and add a new unit Condo with worse stats, so at least you need to invest some resources into make them Elite before stomp someone really fast.
Nicov: I would make them not affected by team bonus anymore. Because the malians' 1+7 pierce armor or the 10+7 (burmese) and 10+8 (aztecs) attack is very OP for such a cheap unit. Also, as tatoh said, I would add a condottiero upgrade (no clue about price). Decrease movement rate or creation time. There are several ways to nerf this unit.
Rorarimbo: I wouldnt add elite upgrade may be its limited thinking but this would mean having the normal ones in castle age too. I would increase their production time so their spam is slower and would add technology in the castle for the allies "mercanaries" so they should have a catle and research a tech to have them available.
- TaToH: I think the idea behind Condo was a unit enable to counter gundpowder. Now is used mainly to kill in early imp because their stats are just too good for that. Also, they are created fast and they are affected by civ bonus so some civs are extremely good with this units ( Malians, Goths, Aztecs, Burmese, Japanese... )
Burmese |
- Unit: Arambai
Nicov: This unit is completely ridiculous (even more than conqs in aoc)
Hyuna: This unit is a ridiculous, the castle age variant is not that OP (but still a problem) but the Imperial one hits like a truck and after the UT gets a bonus vs buildings. They are fine in small numbers but when massed they're just unstoppable. The advantage over Conqs is they cost wood not food and they have half the accuracy of a Conq and less pierce armour overall. But once you have a mass of Arambai + 1 armour + Bloodlines + Husbandry you can just slaughter xbows/elite skirms/Pikes and even Knights. Of course it has UU which it gets slaughtered by notably the Camel Archer but having UU counter UU and having no other viable answer of a unit means the unit needs a nerf. At least with conqs. Mass halb/Skirm with rams work. Arambai seem to still demolish that and they get a better Spanish lategame combo with their battle elephants and also get siege engineer meaning Arambai and 9 range Onager and may be some hussar/elephant make them pretty unstoppable.
Nicov: I would highly decrease their attack (something like: arambai 14 attack, elite 18) and also decrease the movement rate so they are no longer so lame vs kt or camel. But even with these changes they'd be still OP vs melee.
- Bonus: 50% Monastery Tech Prize
Maximus: Most of already mentioned plus I think Burmese bonus of 50% cheaper monastery is kinda OP. IT is very situational but you can save up to thousands of gold. Generally I think monks were not really improved upon in WK. Converting still too random/too quick. Most of new civs have very strong monastery research trees.
Hyuna: 50% monk tech is pretty ridiculous, probably the biggest gold save of any bonus.
Huyna: I feel like it should cost 50% less only in imperial and somewhere 30%+ in castle age
Incas |
- Unit: Slingers
- Nicov:They need to get nerfed as well. Not only they smash infantry like flies, but they also win vs xbows
Hyuna: Of all unit that needs a nerf. It's not this guy. After Thumb Ring for both and Ballstics xbow actually win. Mass xbow also can focus fire significantly better and Slingers suck worse vs Cavalry and Skirms than xbows do and xbows already can't deal with ESkirms on equal terms. Them dropping infantry like flies is fine imo the Incas need this. Fast units that close the gap can abuse their min range if they aren't massed enough and they cost food (albeit very little) it's really only great vs infantry and maybe in imp okay vs a few archers but archers still get a way better trade because thumb ring does not make Slingers fire faster. If you really want a nerf. Only give them +8 infantry bonus castle age and +10 imperial otherwise this unit is fine tbh.
- Nicov: I would start by decreasing their range or making them expensiver.
- Nicov:They need to get nerfed as well. Not only they smash infantry like flies, but they also win vs xbows
Berbers |
- Unit: Camel Archer
Soufire: this unit is 10 times better than mangudais, cheaper and stronger vs ranged units, they patrol better and can pack in smaller spaces, i have noticed that the units that are supposed to counter it doesn't work, they outperforms mamelukes and magudais and can only be stopped with SO.
Melkor: Camel archer is just too strong overall.
Melkor: Decrease its hitpoints a bit. (maybe -5 / -10 HP )
Ethiopians |
- Bonus: Free halb
- Nicov:This civ needs a big nerf because most of the civs are useless vs this one. Specially cavarly ones.
TaToH: Free halb imo is too powerful, makes almost no viable to go knights vs them, and they have insta combo halb + arb on imp what is a powerful one. Also the firerate maybe is too much + thumb ring.
- Nicov: I would decrease fire rate to 10% and remove free halb upgrade.
TaToH: I'd keep free pikeman and i'd remove free halb. About fire rate, maybe give them free thumb ring instead of fire rate, or lower fire rate to 10%.
- Nicov:This civ needs a big nerf because most of the civs are useless vs this one. Specially cavarly ones.
- Bonus: +100f +100g reaching new Age
- wakko: I think Ethiopians +100 food and gold is too much for early feudal age.
- wakko: It could be reduced to 50/50 in feudal and then 100/100 in castle, 150/150 in imperial or smth like that to make it more balanced.
General Units |
- Units: Eagle Warrior ( Castle Age )
- Nicov: They are pretty much like elite eagle warriors on imp. Fast creation time, fast movement rate. And if they are massed enough they win vs knights with ease. But I'm not sure how to nerf them though
Soufire: They are basically early imp eew
- Nicov: The only thing I imagine is increasing the upgrade price which is really low for such a strong unit.
- Nicov: They are pretty much like elite eagle warriors on imp. Fast creation time, fast movement rate. And if they are massed enough they win vs knights with ease. But I'm not sure how to nerf them though
- Units: Battle Elephants
- Nicov:The elite upgrade costs 800 food 500 gold. Cheaper than champion and paladin upgrade. And this unit simply kills anything (won't even mention the ones with 3+6 pierce armor :lol: ). As we have seen in WK 4v4 tournament, paladins are not used anymore thanks to this extremely OP unit.
buddy: Also I do feel the battle elephants may need some more looking into as some civs will struggle a lot vs them. They move slow which is their main weakness, and they require a lot of food. It has not really been a huge problem when I learned to play vs them, but I have the feeling it may be too unstoppable at top level play when someone is pushing with a horde of those elephants. You only need a small number of those elephants and some counter to halbs behind to make a pretty strong push vs a maya player for example.
Influenza: From what little I played I think those battle elephants need a massive nerf, especially the burmese ones.
Rorarimbo: I think in SP they are quite managable but in TGs they are way too strong indeed.
Soufire: their upgrade is so cheap and currently make more trampling damage that they should
Melkor: Maybe give battle elephants 0 base armour for hack and pierce, and then increase their hitpoints.
That would make war elephants unique in that they have armour. In addition it would create a viable way to counter them with archers, yet still discourage melee from fighting them. The only other way to make them balanced, is to make them slower, BUT WHO WANTS THAT.
That would make each civs unique bonus for their eles more interesting, with burmese getting a mini war elephant, and the other civs getting something new to aoc.
Ideally 40 arbalests should be able to kill one elite battle elephant in 2 volleys. Whereas vs the burmese ones it was more like 7-8 volleys
- :
- Nicov:The elite upgrade costs 800 food 500 gold. Cheaper than champion and paladin upgrade. And this unit simply kills anything (won't even mention the ones with 3+6 pierce armor :lol: ). As we have seen in WK 4v4 tournament, paladins are not used anymore thanks to this extremely OP unit.
Minor priority |
Turks |
- Bonus: Gold bonus ( 20% )
- Nicov: need to be adjusted in order to be more competitive. The 15% looks like a joke compared to most of the new civs' eco bonuses.
- Nicov: 30% faster gold mining (same as Koreans' stone one)
- Nicov: need to be adjusted in order to be more competitive. The 15% looks like a joke compared to most of the new civs' eco bonuses.
Chinese |
- Bonus: Cheaper Tech bonus
- Nicov: need to be adjusted in order to be more competitive.
- Nicov: Cheaper technologies price in order to make them save more resources.