Probably best answer, new civs are definitely not op and definitely easily beatable, very telegraphed powerspike of First Crusade is strong, but is also still very telegraphed and the unit can be countered. Burgundians are yet another clearly telegraphed civ, which currently has bugged UU, not meaning it's op, it's simply bugged. Once the double damage bug is resolved I suspect the unit will end up somewhere in the Arambai camp, where it's a very strong unit on it's own, but can be countered easily. The only map where one could say civ is "OP" is African Clearing - Sicilians, bcs u get 3 vil lead on every civ. Even then, some ppl might argue Mongols counter them on that map. I think people vastly underestimate how much eco bonuses impact the game, and neither new civs having them (Honestly the Burgundian bonus is only strong on maps like BF and Arena) hurts them a lot. I just hate the way both civs play out very unlike normal AoE2Where is the "it doesn't matter whether they are OP or not because either way they are poorly designed and clearly unnecessary for MP" option?
So... Are they OP overall?Burgundians have very good eco on closed maps, Half cost Cavalier in Castle age, two OP UU and Flemish revolution.
Sicilians are OP on mid to late game water, OP against counter units and OP on closed maps with first crusade and Elite Serjeants.
How exactly does the bug work? As far as I understand it they get double the charge damage against units with archer armor class?Burgundians are yet another clearly telegraphed civ, which currently has bugged UU, not meaning it's op, it's simply bugged.
Exactly like that, the problem is, mobile cavarly archer type units are one of the greatest counters to them, so removing a counter from equation makes then significantly stronger in a lot of matchups, especially more so in teamgames scenarios.How exactly does the bug work? As far as I understand it they get double the charge damage against units with archer armor class?
If so that doesnt have that big of an effect because crossbows and skirms would get oneshot either way. Its just CA and some UU that are affected then.
Excuse me what the ****?Once the double damage bug is resolved I suspect the unit will end up somewhere in the Arambai camp,
CAs are not counter of Coustilliers. They seem the only option to deal with this OP unit because they are ranged and faster so you can avoid the charge...Exactly like that, the problem is, mobile cavarly archer type units are one of the greatest counters to them, so removing a counter from equation makes then significantly stronger in a lot of matchups, especially more so in teamgames scenarios.
Literally just one guy saying that...I can't believe people saying that Coustilliers are OP only because of the double damage against archers. Could someone explain me why they consider Coustilliers fair units?
Yeah. Besides nerfing the UU, they could give them bloodlines, keep the stable tech discount (or nerfing to 33%), remove the castle age cavalier and they should be a decent cav civ with tech discounts and earlier eco ups. I agree that HC still feel meh compared to cav archers improvement.Burgundians: after the inevitable Coustillier nerf I think this might become one of the worst civs in the game. Even with the tech advantage no-bloodlines cavalry just can't compete IMO. The window to do damage with early cavalier and paladin is just too small. Currently they're OK because the UU is broken, but that's obviously not gonna last. Handcannons are still bad and they don't get siege engineers. Burmese without Arambai are a much better civ than Burgundians without Coustillier.
Its only sick if you open scouts.Sicilian Farms are pretty sick actually
this is more of a TG tech than first crusade, and at earliest used in mid-imperial (mostly post-imp) as food and wood are usually extra, while trade carts wouldn't turn into flem militia.flemish revolution is a tg tech. I've played many games where one player dies and has to reboom while the other side is winning. With flemish revolution he just gets 150 army and pushes back 2 players alone while his teammates send him the food to remake the villagers.