TLC Grand Final Tsu (vs) QuEnDi A

Australiarobo

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#1

Tsu 5:2 QuEnDi A
Game 1: Tsu Home Map TI - Tsu
Game 2: Tsu Home Map Baltic - Tsu
Game 3: Arena - Tsu
Game 4.1: Goths GA - Tsu_NilPferD (Tsu)
Game 4.2: Franks Ghostlake - Rubenstock (Tsu)
Game 5: Ghostlake - QuEnDi A
Game 6: Prairie - QuEnDi A
Game 7: TI - Tsu

Congratulations to both teams, but especially Tsu for really taking advantage of the Captains Mode drafting throughout the tournament. They consistently managed to get great civ combos which combined with their excellent play, made for many exciting games!

Missing QuEnDi A's PoV for g4.1.
 

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GermanySkittle

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Sep 4, 2010
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#2
Expected for me, well done!!
Grats nili, shine, ruben and grats quendi for 2nd :smile:
 

UnknownCutht

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Aug 24, 2016
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#3
Beating quendi twice and horseforce aswell.
Well deserved victory! Really made good use fo the settings. While both 2nd and 3rd place are better players individually, they were somewhat lacking in teamplay and definitely in the drafting procedure.


Thanks for the great tournament guys. Was really alot of fun to watch and follow.
 

GermanySney

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Mar 14, 2010
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#4
good analysis by cutht, +1 there
gratz guys, well done
it was nice to see Nili proving by the goth war, that they can beat the tops in other settings aswell (fast mirror civs, even in 1v1)
 

Franceedie

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May 9, 2013
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#5
Congratz :clap: . Gonna watch it as soon as i can.
monsterShine poZpower 《3
 
Nov 22, 2013
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#6
Congrats
Tsubenstock.

The draft mode has been pointed out already, but I was astonished by how dominant Tsu was on water.
However, I think the 1v1s was decisive. Really great game by Nilpferd and ensuring them a matchpoint on water was the key.

Hats off to Shine for playing that unprepaired yet that stronk. "Opening our draft sheet on the other laptop was all preparition I had."11

Fun to watch.
And its always curious to see the civ picks on maps where RM would dictate completely different choices.
 

AustriaClemensor

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Jun 9, 2014
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#8
Let me start this out with saying, that Tsubenstock really played well in this series and showed a better performance overall. I especially want to point out Nilis performance since he played all games, won the 1v1 against Kellan and seemed to be the main playmaker in his team and pulled some nice moves out of his pocket.

On the topic of drafts: We really have given the bans and picks a lot of thought beforehand. I think the main issue now in hindsight was that we tried to play too much against the opposing team rather than the map itself. We took quite some time looking at past games of Tsu and analyzing their picks and bans for certain maps. We then got caught off guard a few times when we were confronted with unexpected situations. So maybe we wouldve been better of just focusing on the civs we want to play rather than focusing on countering their supposed picks.
On the viking pick: On TI the start is crucial and in all the compring and testing we did viking performed really well and we were confident in choosing them in the end. I think the focus shouldnt be too much on the drafting, since I dont think it was one of the main factors in the end, to not take away from the great performance by Tsubenstock.
 

ArgentinaImRiver

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#10
Well Quendi got all the open land maps 2v2 >< Which is what they play, slower maps give slower players a big advantage, because they got more Macro-Skills and are not start-depending

congrats tsu! Wp Quendi <3 nice perfomance too!
 
Jun 2, 2010
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#11
First of all congrats to Tsu. They really played great and totally deserve it.

I would like to express my feelings and share my point of view in a positive way to improve the future tournament formats for dm.

1. Having Ga played so few times in a DM tourney is annoying the least.
2. Captain's Mode was an interesting new thing but it turned down removing some wonderful civ from being played the whole tournament. It also unorganized the way of preparing any strategies in most games and made the players confused and overall increased the luck factor. It was like the better working picks win the games.
3. Seeing 3 out of 5 wins in finals coming from water maps is just a shame to my eyes. Water does NOT belong in the legit DM rules and i m pretty sure it frustrates most dm players.
4. I really dont like the rule that the winner brackets winner gets only one/two hm advantage in finals. In this case it worked great for Tsu cuz water existed but lets say both teams wanna play the normal maps. Its almost zero advantage.In this format every team should lose 2 sets including the WB winner.
5. I know its not easy to be active etc but we must do something about the scheduling and having the games played on time cuz it really kills the whole tournament having a round delayed like 1 month due to a team being unable to schedule. It makes everyone losing the touch and interest.

At last, i do believe that horseforce (me and orkut) should win this but somehow we missed the big plays or we had some bad civ picks. Congrats to quendi and tsu for beating us tho but i would like to say that if we played again we were gonna smash them easy :wink:
 
Mar 10, 2016
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#12
Congrats TSU. You totally deserve it with your plays and also your emphasis on civ draft. Your civ choices compared to opponents in civ drafts are better and intelligent. In saying that I also agree with most of the things Jidba said. Too many water maps and too less GA. I would also like to have atleast 40% of games in set with hidden picks rather than civ draft.
 

TurkeyTheCode

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Jan 15, 2015
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#13
Congrats Nili, Shine and Rubenstock for winning the tournament directly from the winner bracket! You guys have proven to be really solid as a team 8-) .

About the final games and general tournament observations,

Tsubenstock
They repeat what they do the best throughout the tournament : smart decisions on civ drafts and absolute water dominance. On top of these, Nilpferd convincing win against Kellan in 1vs1 kind of sealed the victory.

Quendi A
Congrats to Quendi A as well for making it to finals and showing great performances throughout the tourney. It certainly was not their day yesterday.
I really like Clemensor and he is a true rising star of DM, but still, choosing him over Wayne in 1vs1 matchup was a significant error in judgement, which in my opinion might have costed them the whole series.

No Walls Mode
I really like the no-walls mode. It encouraged the mobile game style throughout the tournament, which the main core of DM skill. I would be happy to see it adapted in every tg tournament from now on.

Captains Mode
It has been quite fun to play/spectate with the captain's mode. But I strongly agree to Jidba here as well. It basically eliminated the greatest civs of DM. Plus, it turned out there is more luck factor then what I thought before, especially for the second picks. Captain's mode in overall is fun to play but not suited for competetive tournaments, especially not suited to apply basically for every game.

Water maps
Seeing 3/5 water map wins in the grand finals was painful to watch for me as well, but it was the rules and Tsu earned the right to pick two home maps by coming from the winner brackets.
I was more inclined to including more water maps in DM tournaments before, but I am now convinced that they should not be included at all. It does not provide any viewing beauty, very boring to play, very limited set of skills and 3xluck factor compared to land maps. "Water only tournaments for fun" is ok, but I will probably never sign-up for a dm tournament with water-land maps mixed again.

Tournament heroes
Thanks to Robo for all the organization regarding the tourney in terms of scheduling, admin work, posting recs etc..Same goes for Nili for streaming and Kellan for doing most of the preperations for the tournament. Kellan did not only bring a whole new level to AOC DM in terms of skill but also put extensive efforts to keep the interest in DM going up :clap:
 

GermanySnyper1_

Active Member
Jun 5, 2011
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#14
Gratz
TSU
super strong play!

First of all congrats to Tsu. They really played great and totally deserve it.

1. Having Ga played so few times in a DM tourney is annoying the least.

3. Seeing 3 out of 5 wins in finals coming from water maps is just a shame to my eyes. Water does NOT belong in the legit DM rules and i m pretty sure it frustrates most dm players.
How about you think about that YOU having the better sets for you years over years and tournament over tournament ? It is not like there are no water maps in AOC at all. You got a point that we could discuss about the number of water maps in such a tournament. But since it is not "Champion of GA DM" or something like that, but an overall DM tournament, water maps have a legit authority to be part of it. The sets proved that TSU was clearly the best team on these settings (winning nearly all of the water maps/halfwater maps if i am not mistaken :ugeek: ) but also managing to take games on land maps aswell.

Dont get me wrong, i dont want to critize you or your opinion, but i want to make a point that there is no "rule" or custom that "DM = 100% GA" and therefore a single tournament which has not the majority of GA DM maps in it has also its right to exist :wink:
 

Unknown_Andrew

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Jan 2, 2013
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#15
Congrats to Tsu, well deserved champions.

I also agree with all of the suggestions/points Jidba made, especially #4.
 

SwedenSpaden

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#16
Nice tournament and all, but I have to agree with Jidba and Orkut on most part. Even I as an RMer thought it was too much water for a DM tournament. Kind of removes the spirit.

My main issue though was the captains mode. Dont get me wrong, I love captains mode and I've played many tournaments with it. But the civs were kind of stale, we just get to see the same 5 civs all the time. People usually complain that the lack of variety when it is free pick of civs, but it was almost as bad here. I think captains mode should be used for every tournament, but not necessarly in every game (except the 1v1s in this one). A few TRs, maybe some random + switch, a few set 2v2 civs etc.

Anyways, thanks for hosting this tournament and congratz to Tsu and Quendi A! WP guys.
 

UnknownL3af

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Mar 19, 2011
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#17
Congrats to Tsubenstock!
I've been thoroughly impressed by the drafts on each map, team work, and Shine's knowledge on picks & bans. Also big props to Nili for winning that Goths war. That sealed the series.

My opinion for the Mayans pick is that they are a cheap civ with longer lasting resources. In a tournament with no walls it should be easy to raid and delay eco/market trade while also fighting efficiently. They can also trib a lot of resources early without losing momentum. It's just a matter of execution.
 
Oct 20, 2010
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#18
First and Foremost, congrats to Tsu! They played well to their advantages, and losing the 1v1s was also a huge loss for us. That was primarily my fault.

First, I would like to give props to Rubenstock. I felt Rubenstock played exceptionally well during the entire tournament, and was the fundamental piece to Tsu's victory during their match up vs Horseforce. As it comes to tournament play, Rubenstock always seems to step it up a level; I can only imagine how DMWC last year might have gone if things were only slightly different for him in his match up vs QuEnDi Sacrifice (Bas).

As for this series, Nilpferd surprised me with his strong play in the goth war; I only regret not training the 1v1 goths ahead of time. Needless to say, our focus was primarily on training water maps in preparation for their map picks...Clearly it wasn't enough to surmount their strong water map skills. Lastly, Shine's landing in game 7 was a super nice move! That really did it for us in losing the last game.

To my team, firstly RaGE (Wayne) played fantastic in the games that really mattered to us. With a little training, I feel Wayne is always capable of playing as good as anyone. I couldn't ask for a better teammate. I only hope that we have a shot at revenge some day. Secondly, Clemensor was also a bigger part of our team than one might think, despite the low amount of games he played for us throughout the tournament. After each of our series, he provided much needed constructive criticism, as well as being a major part of our strategy building for the finals. It was a great pleasure playing and training with Clemensor, I have no doubt he will become a top level DMer, if he so chooses.

Congrats Tsu, very well played.
 

United Statespatao

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Apr 2, 2016
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#19
Great tournament, I really enjoyed watching, and also all of this post-match breakdown. I agree re: limiting water maps, as from a spec perspective the AoC water meta doesn't seem to lend itself to DM too well. With the single dominant unit type, any advantage just snowballs and there's nothing to stop it (in RM there are options: power spikes aging up, booming on land, viable landings). That said, there's clearly skill to it because Tsu was way better on it so those were well-deserved wins :lol: The land maps were way more entertaining though. Thanks to all the players and admins, really entertaining stuff, I hope to see more and more DM!
 

BrazilDFH_Risque

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Apr 26, 2010
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#20
Nice tournament and all, but I have to agree with Jidba and Orkut on most part. Even I as an RMer thought it was too much water for a DM tournament. Kind of removes the spirit.

My main issue though was the captains mode. Dont get me wrong, I love captains mode and I've played many tournaments with it. But the civs were kind of stale, we just get to see the same 5 civs all the time. People usually complain that the lack of variety when it is free pick of civs, but it was almost as bad here. I think captains mode should be used for every tournament, but not necessarly in every game (except the 1v1s in this one). A few TRs, maybe some random + switch, a few set 2v2 civs etc.

Anyways, thanks for hosting this tournament and congratz to Tsu and Quendi A! WP guys.
big +1
imo the definition of DM will be always around GA, you can put some different maps but i think GA games should be at least 50% of the rounds.
 
Jun 12, 2011
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#21
Thanks a lot for the tournament, especially to Robo and Kellan.
When it started I realized I wouldn't have any time to play during the months of the tourney so I persuaded Nili to sign up with Rubenstock instead. In the end I managed to show up for some games and even play some but my contribution was mostly on civ picks (sometimes it was made easy for us, though. I can't stop face-palming about vikings on TI).

While I generally agree that from a spectator's point of view team islands DM might not be the most thrilling thing - keep in mind we only saw 3 water/half water maps here because Quendi lost 0:3 in 2v2 Landmaps vs us in the Winner bracket before - Atacama, GA and Goldrush if I'm not mistaken. If they had won that and we would have been coming from the Lower Bracket, there would have been two open land maps in Grand finals. Same goes for Horseforce, who lost GA, Prairie and Graveyards to us in the WB final.

My point is: Even though our dominant win in the finals was mainly due to watermaps, the important wins before that were almost exclusively land maps, where we had some excellent civ choices but also really strong perfomances by Nili and Ruben.

I wouldn't be too worried though, I'm pretty sure there will be tournaments with standard civs and maps again. Even though I enjoyed captain's mode a lot and it gave us some crucial advantages, I would have liked a few random+switch or just teamrandom games, too. Or maybe a hun/goth to spice it up, as we've hardly seen some of those civs.
 
Jun 2, 2010
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#22
StorM_Tempest_ said:
Thanks a lot for the tournament, especially to Robo and Kellan.
When it started I realized I wouldn't have any time to play during the months of the tourney so I persuaded Nili to sign up with Rubenstock instead. In the end I managed to show up for some games and even play some but my contribution was mostly on civ picks (sometimes it was made easy for us, though. I can't stop face-palming about vikings on TI).

While I generally agree that from a spectator's point of view team islands DM might not be the most thrilling thing - keep in mind we only saw 3 water/half water maps here because Quendi lost 0:3 in 2v2 Landmaps vs us in the Winner bracket before - Atacama, GA and Goldrush if I'm not mistaken. If they had won that and we would have been coming from the Lower Bracket, there would have been two open land maps in Grand finals. Same goes for Horseforce, who lost GA, Prairie and Graveyards to us in the WB final.

My point is: Even though our dominant win in the finals was mainly due to watermaps, the important wins before that were almost exclusively land maps, where we had some excellent civ choices but also really strong perfomances by Nili and Ruben.

I wouldn't be too worried though, I'm pretty sure there will be tournaments with standard civs and maps again. Even though I enjoyed captain's mode a lot and it gave us some crucial advantages, I would have liked a few random+switch or just teamrandom games, too. Or maybe a hun/goth to spice it up, as we've hardly seen some of those civs.
Just to make it even more clear i dont wanna steal anything from Tsu great success. Tsu won the tournament fair and nice no doubts. I m just trying to express my feelings and point of view.
And i wanna close my words by saying I have some nice ideas about next tournament rules and format .
I hope i can help the staff next time :wink:
 

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