AOE-II the Brainless beating Barbie thread

United NationsBrainless

Well-Known Member
Dec 22, 2011
1,540
65
63
Sagittarius A
#1
[ EDIT ]
This thread is dedicated to games vs and with the AI Barbarian. (AI = Artificial Intelligence, the program controlling the computer player)

It started by me posting my own 1v1 games, but all are free to add their own records, as long as Barbarian takes part in it.
It is appreciated to play the latest version, which you can download here: http://aok.heavengames.com/blacksmith/showfile.php?fileid=11085&f=&st=10&ci=
Unzip it into the games AI folder.

The current version is Barbarian 2.16c, played in AOC userpatch

These game are meant as a testing ground.
It is sometimes unclear however who is tested, Barbarian or me.
After this text the original first message continues.
[ END EDIT ]


Here an example of what can be done in Steppe map.

Castle age in 13:48, then spamming CA.
1v1 Brainless vs Barbie hardest, map Steppe, speed slow

Not very special, no tricks involved, just staightforward fast castle.
But i must say, TC placement is crucial in this map.

Beat that Barbie!

[ EDIT 27-08-2015 ] altough this thread is pretty old people are still downloading this 1st record (177 times!). You better scroll to the end, because bot barbie and i got better overtime. And we found better game configurations to play.
Also, the first few recs are AOFE, but later they are all AOC with userpatch. Be sure to have the latest userpatch version, in order to play them! http://userpatch.aiscripters.net/guide.html
 
Dec 1, 2011
86
0
21
#4
Re: Brainless beating Barbie (AOFE hardest 1v1)

@viewers: Keep in mind that this is an outdated version of Barbarian though, the new ones don't work on AoFE anymore since it uses an old version of the userpatch (except if you manually upgrade it).
 

United NationsBrainless

Well-Known Member
Dec 22, 2011
1,540
65
63
Sagittarius A
#6
Re: Brainless beating Barbie (AOFE hardest 1v1)

+1 Promi

Brainless beating Barbie (AOFE hardest 1v1)
AOFE...what version?

Version: AOC 1.0c
...confusion...

Anyways; most likely old-UP Barbarian - gb :D
- AOFE 2.2 : its the only version anyone should use, if you use the launcher it auto-updates if you have an old version.

- the confusing 1.0c flag is an AoCZone problem, its just an AOFE 2.2 record.

- i dont know how many updates Barbarian had after 10-05-2013 but this one is pretty awesome already. No gb :D if you have not tried it yourself please.

But if you say i might try to do the same in UP 1.4 i will. I just miss the option to select Barbarian in the players menu of UP 1.4, like it does in AOFE.
 

FinlandTheMax

Known Member
Sep 12, 2012
381
211
48
#7
Re: Brainless beating Barbie (AOFE hardest 1v1)

- AOFE 2.2 : its the only version anyone should use, if you use the launcher it auto-updates if you have an old version.

- the confusing 1.0c flag is an AoCZone problem, its just an AOFE 2.2 record.

- i dont know how many updates Barbarian had after 10-05-2013 but this one is pretty awesome already. No gb :D if you have not tried it yourself please.

But if you say i might try to do the same in UP 1.4 i will. I just miss the option to select Barbarian in the players menu of UP 1.4, like it does in AOFE.
Latest version of Barbarian is 2.14b (updated in 6-4-2014). AoFE 2.2 uses 2.13 beta (which still lacked quite a few features final 2.13 had, like ability to cut with siege onagers on maps defined as michi), which was the last version to work with UP 1.2, and AoFE is based on that.

Selecting AIs can be selected exactly the same way with UP 1.4 as with AoFE (the ability to pick AIs in multiplayer is an UP-feature, not AoFE exclusive).

I certainly would love to watch AI games from UP 1.4 with latest AI versions, and so would other AI scripters. There are multiple good UP AIs that should be able to play almost all maps: Barbarian, IS_Machine, Promi, The Horde and UnfairSteel (Juggernaut is a more recent AI from the same scripter, but it only plays land maps at the moment).

It's also possible to use UP 1.4 with AoFE, which allows using later AI versions that aren't compatible with with AoFE's outdated UP version:
http://www.aoczone.net/viewtopic.php?p=327373#p327373
 

United NationsBrainless

Well-Known Member
Dec 22, 2011
1,540
65
63
Sagittarius A
#8
Re: Brainless beating Barbie (AOFE hardest 1v1)

Selecting AIs can be selected exactly the same way with UP 1.4 as with AoFE (the ability to pick AIs in multiplayer is an UP-feature, not AoFE exclusive).
Can you help me out in this? To be sure i just downloaded and reinstalled the latest UP from viewtopic.php?f=101&t=93911


I am sure you know what you are talking about so help this noob out and i will upload some nice AI testing records soon...
 

United NationsBrainless

Well-Known Member
Dec 22, 2011
1,540
65
63
Sagittarius A
#11
Re: Brainless beating Barbie (hardest 1v1)

OK now... all installed and tested:

Brainless vs Barbie 2.14b hardest
AOC UP 1.4
1v1, map Sea Haven, explored

comment: no interesting game at all. I always experience the sea element in maps like this as an obstacle for dynamic gameplay.
Barbarian obviously is too agressive, it thinks its too strong and attacks itself to death. It should adapt to a well defended situation.
 

Attachments

  • General Advancing Chat Researches

    • Version: AOC UP1.4
      Duration: 00:57:50
      Avg. rating: N/A
      Map: Sea Haven
      View of: Brainless
      Click on the map to enlarge
      Team 1
      Brainless
      Spanish
      Team 2
      Barbarian
      Persians
    •   Feudal Castle Imperial
      Brainless 00:09:06 00:13:44 00:40:30
      Barbarian 00:08:00 00:15:12 00:38:41
    • PREGAME CHAT
      INGAME CHAT
      [00:57:45] <Barbarian> gg, well played
      [00:57:48] <Brainless> gg
      [00:57:50] * Barbarian resigned
    • Brainless
      Barbarian
      Time
    Version:
    AOC UP1.4
    Duration:
    00:57:50
    Avg. Rating:
    N/A
    Map:
    Sea Haven
    PoV:
    Brainless
    Team 1
    Brainless
    Spanish
    Team 2
    Barbarian
    Persians

FinlandTheMax

Known Member
Sep 12, 2012
381
211
48
#12
Re: Brainless beating Barbie (hardest 1v1)

Barbarian does not have code to take sea towers and that monk ship into account, which led to excessive aggressiveness early. There also seemed to be some bug that prevented retreating against the castle, I'll have to take a look at that. Attacking, and especially not retreating, without proper cannon galleon/transport support looked bad.

The map isn't very AI-friendly though, since the hills will prevent placing additional town centers (which were required for more docks) and it'd require a very complicated code to migrate to other islands without knowing their exact location. Barbarian burned the wood out pretty fast.

Thanks.
 

United NationsBrainless

Well-Known Member
Dec 22, 2011
1,540
65
63
Sagittarius A
#13
Re: Brainless beating Barbie (hardest 1v1)

The map isn't very AI-friendly though, since the hills will prevent placing additional town centers (which were required for more docks) and it'd require a very complicated code to migrate to other islands without knowing their exact location. Barbarian burned the wood out pretty fast.

Thanks.
It wasnt friendly for me either, but i decided i did not need a 2nd TC that hard if i could protect my fishers. The main trouble with barbarian is it didnt migrate or invade, or change plan.
 

United NationsBrainless

Well-Known Member
Dec 22, 2011
1,540
65
63
Sagittarius A
#14
Re: Brainless beating Barbie (hardest 1v1)

Brainless vs Barbie 2.14b hardest
AOC UP 1.4
1v1, map Savanah, explored

This is how you should not handle barbie: trush, then archers.
It looks like unfair play, because its becomes obviously totally chaotic.
But if you dont, you loose. However i have played vs earlier versions where vills acted more alert when in send mine between them. KEEP CALM and get rid of that mess, a little bit more of that? These vills make me think of a flock of sheep being held together by sheperd dogs..
Anyway i think i lost a vill + 2 archers, it puts up a fight in the end
 

Attachments

  • General Advancing Chat Researches

    • Version: AOC UP1.4
      Duration: 00:30:09
      Avg. rating: N/A
      Map: Savanah
      View of: Brainless
      Click on the map to enlarge
      Team 1
      Brainless
      Spanish
      Team 2
      Barbarian
      Spanish
    •   Feudal Castle Imperial
      Brainless 00:11:32 00:20:29 -
      Barbarian 00:10:30 - -
    • PREGAME CHAT
      INGAME CHAT
      [00:30:04] <Barbarian> gg, re?
      [00:30:07] <Brainless> 1
      [00:30:09] <Brainless> gg
      [00:30:09] * Barbarian resigned
    • Brainless
      Barbarian
      Time
    Version:
    AOC UP1.4
    Duration:
    00:30:09
    Avg. Rating:
    N/A
    Map:
    Savanah
    PoV:
    Brainless
    Team 1
    Brainless
    Spanish
    Team 2
    Barbarian
    Spanish

FinlandTheMax

Known Member
Sep 12, 2012
381
211
48
#15
Re: Brainless beating Barbie (hardest 1v1)

Whether the villagers react to your forward builders is determined by town-size, which hasn't been touched; you were just slightly outside of it. The one-tile pathfinding issue unfortunately prevented the [email protected] from clearing low-hp house around the tower.

I'll test if expanding town size against detected forward would help. Building own tower with multiple villagers to prevent the enemy tower from going up would be the best option, but the game engine prevents that from happening, since it doesn't let placing anything in the range of the enemy tower (even if it isn't up yet). UP has improved the possibilities AIs have against forward towers, but they still remain very nasty.
 

United NationsBrainless

Well-Known Member
Dec 22, 2011
1,540
65
63
Sagittarius A
#17
Re: Brainless beating Barbie (hardest 1v1)

Brainless vs Barbie 2.14b hardest
AOC UP 1.4
1v1, map Blue Arabia, not explored

A dire situation: dark age starvation. No sheep, deer, fish or boar, just one single berry bush.
It forced me to do strict priority management: build farms, not lumbercamp until i could keep up the vill production.
Hence, a late feudal time
 

Attachments

  • General Advancing Chat Researches

    • Version: AOC UP1.4
      Duration: 00:38:38
      Avg. rating: N/A
      Map: - blue arabia -
      View of: Brainless
      Click on the map to enlarge
      Team 1
      Brainless
      Saracens
      Team 2
      Barbarian
      Saracens
    •   Feudal Castle Imperial
      Brainless 00:16:56 00:20:52 00:41:21
      Barbarian 00:15:58 00:24:56 -
    • PREGAME CHAT
      INGAME CHAT
      [00:38:33] <Barbarian> gg, well played
      [00:38:36] <Brainless> gg
      [00:38:38] * Barbarian resigned
    • Brainless
      Barbarian
      Time
    Version:
    AOC UP1.4
    Duration:
    00:38:38
    Avg. Rating:
    N/A
    Map:
    - blue arabia -
    PoV:
    Brainless
    Team 1
    Brainless
    Saracens
    Team 2
    Barbarian
    Saracens

FinlandTheMax

Known Member
Sep 12, 2012
381
211
48
#18
Re: Brainless beating Barbie (hardest 1v1)

Oh wow, Barbarian's dark age was absolutely terrible, it was only saved by the fact hardest cheats. I must improve playing on blue arabia.

Against that forward castle there isn't much to do since it failed to see the castle before it was up, and then you quickly blocked the access to wood.
 

United NationsBrainless

Well-Known Member
Dec 22, 2011
1,540
65
63
Sagittarius A
#19
Re: Brainless beating Barbie (hardest 1v1)

Oh wow, Barbarian's dark age was absolutely terrible, it was only saved by the fact hardest cheats. I must improve playing on blue arabia.

Against that forward castle there isn't much to do since it failed to see the castle before it was up, and then you quickly blocked the access to wood.
Actually... i must confess i do not post my losses vs barbie here.
I lost the 1st one in this map. Barbie put a castle on me, while i tried knight rush. I tried 2nd time, restarting game, same map. So i had advantage knowing the map. So i copied barbie this time. The strange thing is, it does not copy itself in 2 identical situations. It changes strategy, sometimes it wins, sometimes it does not, because mostly bad luck i think?
 

FinlandTheMax

Known Member
Sep 12, 2012
381
211
48
#20
Re: Brainless beating Barbie (hardest 1v1)

Flush detection might have triggered and switched the strategy, since most times AIs do the same strategy on restart (since they usually generate same random numbers).

Barbarian's strategy is partly random. It initially loads something and then may switch the strategy if it thinks that doesn't suit the situation (like flush -> FC as pocket or FC -> flush if detected enemy flush).
 

United NationsBrainless

Well-Known Member
Dec 22, 2011
1,540
65
63
Sagittarius A
#21
Re: Brainless beating Barbie (hardest 1v1)

I played blue arabia 2v2 with a friend yesterday. And don't worry, Barbie totally owned us in 2v2. There was nothing to do against it.

There is only one way we can defeat barbie on this map and this is by heavy laming:
( which is also tiny map + all visible + slow speed)
 

Attachments

  • General Achievements Advancing Chat Researches

    • Version: AOC UP1.4
      Duration: 00:43:27
      Avg. rating: N/A
      Map: - blue arabia -
      View of: Brainless
      Click on the map to enlarge
      Team 1
      Brainless
      Franks
      die
      Persians
      Team 2
      Barbarian
      Goths
      Barbarian
      Koreans
    • Overall Military Economy Technology Society

      •   Military Economy Technology Society Total
        Brainless 1254 2085 1708 292 5339
        die 2386 2978 2053 520 7937
        Barbarian 195 833 1664 0 2692
        Barbarian 165 444 1560 0 2169
      •   Units killed Units lost Buildings razed Buildings lost Converted
        Brainless 92 12 12 0 0
        die 203 11 14 0 0
        Barbarian 14 237 0 10 0
        Barbarian 9 58 0 16 0
      •   Food Wood Stone Gold Trade Tributes
        Brainless 8997 7144 2156 3060 0 0/0
        die 9588 10805 3369 4445 0 0/0
        Barbarian 9743 7767 0 334 0 781/0
        Barbarian 3322 2731 225 143 0 0/781
      •   Feudal Castle Imperial Map expl. Research
        Brainless 00:19:44 00:30:34 00:45:21 100% 17 (17%)
        die 00:14:51 00:30:33 - 100% 20 (19%)
        Barbarian 00:15:42 00:40:32 - 100% 16 (16%)
        Barbarian 00:18:59 00:25:01 - 100% 12 (12%)
      •   Wonders Castles Relics Relic gold Vill high
        Brainless 0 3 0 0 53
        die 0 4 2 171 77
        Barbarian 0 0 0 0 57
        Barbarian 0 0 0 0 48
    •   Feudal Castle Imperial
      Brainless 00:19:44 00:30:34 00:45:21
      die 00:14:51 00:30:33 -
      Barbarian 00:15:42 00:40:32 -
      Barbarian 00:18:59 00:25:01 -
    • PREGAME CHAT
      <Brainless> and we can also try 3v2
      <die> 2v2
      <die> all visible
      <Brainless> 1
      <die> and lame as hell
      <Brainless> it is
      INGAME CHAT
      [00:00:06] <Brainless> 14
      [00:00:06] <die> 1
      [00:00:06] <Brainless> sec
      [00:00:06] <Brainless> ok
      [00:00:06] <die> ok
      [00:00:06] <Brainless> screen
      [00:02:10] <die> i will kill you green
      [00:02:12] <die> 14
      [00:06:46] <die> be easy
      [00:06:52] <die> this song is crazy
      [00:11:30] <die> 11
      [00:12:29] <die> 11
      [00:18:22] <die> 7
      [00:27:45] <Brainless> 7
      [00:27:49] <die> 11
      [00:30:19] <Barbarian> Right.
      [00:30:24] <die> 11
      [00:30:29] <die> left
      [00:31:21] <Brainless> 9
      [00:31:27] <die> 9
      [00:38:24] <Brainless> take tc
      [00:38:31] <die> 1
      [00:40:36] <die> 11
      [00:42:59] <die> coming
      [00:43:00] <Brainless> tc
      [00:43:21] <Barbarian> gg
      [00:43:21] <Barbarian> gg
      [00:43:25] <Brainless> gg
      [00:43:27] <Brainless> 1
      [00:43:27] * Barbarian resigned
      [00:43:27] * Barbarian resigned
    • Brainless
      die
      Barbarian
      Barbarian
      Time
    Version:
    AOC UP1.4
    Duration:
    00:43:27
    Avg. Rating:
    N/A
    Map:
    - blue arabia -
    PoV:
    Brainless
    Team 1
    Brainless
    Franks
    die
    Persians
    Team 2
    Barbarian
    Goths
    Barbarian
    Koreans

FinlandTheMax

Known Member
Sep 12, 2012
381
211
48
#24
Re: Brainless beating Barbie (hardest 1v1)

I doubt Barbarian is from USA either :smile:

Barbarian's dark age was nevertheless horrible on blue arabia, but I've fixed it in my local version. I'm also planning to add something against palisade rush.
 

United NationsBrainless

Well-Known Member
Dec 22, 2011
1,540
65
63
Sagittarius A
#25
Re: Brainless beating Barbie (hardest 1v1)

I doubt Barbarian is from USA either :smile:

Barbarian's dark age was nevertheless horrible on blue arabia, but I've fixed it in my local version. I'm also planning to add something against palisade rush.
That would definitely make barbie something not to toy with anymore...

In the meantime: we managed to beat it in a water map, which used to be pretty hard.
Reveal: explored, speed:slow
 

Attachments

  • General Achievements Advancing Chat Researches

    • Version: AOC UP1.4
      Duration: 00:38:57
      Avg. rating: N/A
      Map: Cove
      View of: Brainless
      Click on the map to enlarge
      Team 1
      Brainless
      Persians
      die
      Saracens
      Team 2
      Barbarian
      Franks
      Barbarian
      Celts
    • Overall Military Economy Technology Society

      •   Military Economy Technology Society Total
        Brainless 760 2314 1735 130 4939
        die 2075 3231 3075 0 8381
        Barbarian 116 419 1630 0 2165
        Barbarian 499 1161 1280 0 2940
      •   Units killed Units lost Buildings razed Buildings lost Converted
        Brainless 55 33 6 3 0
        die 130 1 21 0 0
        Barbarian 9 136 0 26 0
        Barbarian 25 50 3 1 0
      •   Food Wood Stone Gold Trade Tributes
        Brainless 7251 8036 1620 4201 0 0/0
        die 11435 13731 1429 4548 0 0/0
        Barbarian 3936 5972 0 1627 0 0/2482
        Barbarian 3330 4866 0 383 0 2482/0
      •   Feudal Castle Imperial Map expl. Research
        Brainless 00:11:51 00:17:22 - 100% 15 (14%)
        die 00:11:55 00:24:35 00:33:11 100% 30 (28%)
        Barbarian 00:10:35 00:24:49 - 100% 15 (15%)
        Barbarian 00:09:20 00:24:49 - 100% 7 (7%)
      •   Wonders Castles Relics Relic gold Vill high
        Brainless 0 1 0 0 44
        die 0 0 3 309 88
        Barbarian 0 0 0 0 44
        Barbarian 0 0 0 0 39
    •   Feudal Castle Imperial
      Brainless 00:11:51 00:17:22 -
      die 00:11:55 00:24:35 00:33:11
      Barbarian 00:10:35 00:24:49 -
      Barbarian 00:09:20 00:24:49 -
    • PREGAME CHAT
      <Brainless> ok
      <Brainless> rdy?
      <die> 1
      INGAME CHAT
      [00:00:14] <Brainless> sea again
      [00:03:29] <die> very bad start
      [00:03:55] <Brainless> killed 2 vills
      [00:04:01] <Brainless> with scout
      [00:04:05] <die> 7
      [00:04:07] <die> nice
      [00:04:53] <Brainless> killed 6 sheep too
      [00:05:01] <die> 11
      [00:05:05] <die> wow
      [00:06:34] <Brainless> 9
      [00:06:38] <Brainless> now my scout is dead
      [00:06:45] <die> 7
      [00:08:37] <Brainless> 17
      [00:08:42] <die> 1
      [00:19:17] <die> 17
      [00:19:18] <die> 11
      [00:25:53] <Barbarian> GG
      [00:25:57] <die> 11
      [00:25:59] * Barbarian resigned
      [00:26:05] <Brainless> 11
      [00:26:10] <die> really
      [00:26:12] <die> come on
      [00:26:20] <Brainless> for sure
      [00:26:25] <Brainless> this is hardest
      [00:26:30] <die> noobs
      [00:38:51] <Barbarian> gg
      [00:38:54] <Brainless> gg
      [00:38:54] <die> gg
      [00:38:57] * Barbarian resigned
    • Brainless
      die
      Barbarian
      Barbarian
      Time
    Version:
    AOC UP1.4
    Duration:
    00:38:57
    Avg. Rating:
    N/A
    Map:
    Cove
    PoV:
    Brainless
    Team 1
    Brainless
    Persians
    die
    Saracens
    Team 2
    Barbarian
    Franks
    Barbarian
    Celts

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