Re: If a new expansion could be created...
but they strong points are more related with fishing and exploration so it will be hard give vikings a fight. maybe use caravel as unique naval unique unit. but cysion said that he will not do that because it takes a lot of time...
i am being funny (or trying ops but it's not that untrue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Aljubarrota go to the aftermath and read about Brites de Almeida
let's stick with the real ones?
can you give me a link like the incas one to the portuguese army ops:
as for the magyars if you really don't think they should have palas do you know what kind of units they were good countering? they hussars could have a bonus vs x units or even a speed bonus (maybe free husbandry?) and they wonder could be just a big beautiful yurt?
yes the moors are pretty much the same as saracens as far as i know. they are just for another region...
i was thinking in giving the carto bonus to the portuguese since they started to explore the seas for new lands but if sara take it the bonus could be a team bonus of carto 50% cheap or just costing food.. they would get a good boost for team games i guess.
for aztecs ring archer armor armor or even heavy scorps is a good ideia. but it as to be tested
britons destroyed the spanish armada 1588 so it's not really inaccurate
for the ca the huns bouns should remain as it is. they should be just a little cheaper for the other civs
mongols siege bonus is fine. what mongols can do without castles?
"Decrease their attack bonus against EW. Reason: Plumed Archers are OP generally. And you might be able to see some other kind of units in a Mayan war than hundreds of plums. EW is to counter ranged units... But are hopeless against Plums now. Plumed is a solution in himself, which is not good again." i agree
the aztecs ew could have a +2 bonus attack vs mayans eagles...
turks with that gold and that stone would have and aztec drush and top trush... they would be op.
this is an opportunity to fix the franks "free bloodlines"
i have some ideas for portugal too. they should have guns since they were the ones that gave it to the japonese and maybe some bonus related to that. they should have all the monastery techs. they should only have cavs and no cavalary archers(the cavalary archers is for game balance) and i think they only had light cav. they should have bloodlines and husbandy but miss the last armor upgrades they should have a strong infantry line with all the upgrades and maybe a bonus but that can be discussed later. for the water they could get free upgrades to the galley line or something like that... just to give a litlle fight to the vikings but not able to defeat them. on the unique techs they could have some king of religious tech that gives extra damage to all the units. they can also have some Chu-Ko-Nu unit because of the besteiros. i can give more ideas later those are just some major points that are a mirror of portuguese history. it would be nice that portugal and england had complementary armys for the team games because http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Portuguese_Alliance.
anyway if you see some mistake or have a better ideia feel free to say it. sorry for the messy post and if want to know more about portuguese history see this link http://historymedren.about.com/library/ ... almain.htm
portugal as a naval civilization to compete with viks would be nice
but they strong points are more related with fishing and exploration so it will be hard give vikings a fight. maybe use caravel as unique naval unique unit. but cysion said that he will not do that because it takes a lot of time...
ps: oh and portugal had a really good time kicking spain in the ass 11
hmm, you are being subjective
i am being funny (or trying ops but it's not that untrue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Aljubarrota go to the aftermath and read about Brites de Almeida
What about Atlantis? Platon knew about them. A new civ to compete with huns... good on water and on land.
let's stick with the real ones?
Regarding Civs:
- Inca is definately worth creating. They were the most powerful empire in South America. They were militaristic conquerors and fierce warriors. You can read about their war discipline, weapons and other equipments here:
http://tonydunnell.suite101.com/inca-we ... rs-a146341
You will see that they did not really use siege engines. But of course in the game they will have to have at least decent siege. (Aztecs and Mayans did not have either, though they are quite good at siege in the game). You can read about the different kind of weapons and their use in tactic. It might give some good ideas about creating the Inca civ. You can also find some articles about their culture and architecture there. I dont hink that this page is very into details, but its good to get the basic feeling about Incas.
- Hungarians aka Magyars: so I write here my further ideas.
They came from east, so I wouldnt give them the Teutonic building style. I rather give them the Persian one. During history Magyar people lived together with other turkish and khazar tribes for a few hundred years. I think it would be logical to give the same building style for them.
They were nomad people, so they didnt construct big and strong buildings. So they will definately not have Masonry and Architecture. In real world they had only yurts, almost nothing else. These constructions were cheap. I think because of this they could have a bonus like buildings cost -10% in feudal, -15% in castle and -20% in imperial. No fortified wall and advanced towers.
Military. I just continue what I have written. So I was thinking and they will need to counter somehow Paladins for example, so they will need halberdiers. This is not very authentic, but the civ must be playable. They didnt have heavy cavalry either, so no Paladin, but they will need the Cavalier. They shouldnt have Blast Furnace (or whatever the name of the imperial blacksmith attack upgrade). So cavaliers and halberdiers will exist, and can be used, but they wont be very good, and that is like our history. Than I would change the unique technology for them to +4 attack for Light Cavalry. Remember, this is only +2 attack compared to most of the civs because of lack of Blast Furnace. They would have full upgraded Hussar, Bracer and maybe Ring Archer Armor, but that can be changed later if too imba. Despite the Persian building set they wont have Camels, I have never heared that Magyars had Camels.
This is about Magyars so far. I still dont know what will be their Team Bonus, the name of the UU nad how the Wonder look like. I am doing some further research to answer these questions.
- Moors: Correct me if I am wrong but Moors are pretty much the same as Saracens, so I wouldnt create a new AoC civ for them.
Regarding balancing existing AoC civs and units:
-Vikings: Cysion, I have read all the 34 pages of the thread you mentioned. And I could see Drixnak emphasising the vikings' need for a Halberdier. If I remember correctly only Carlos or John said that they wouldnt give Halberdier for them, because they are too powerful on water so they must sux on land. I dont agree this, because if we nerf the Viking shipping bonus, they wont rock so much and they really need to survive on land too. At least survive.. Vikings do need halberdier, because:
- They are unable to counter Paladins. All the other civs without Halberdier have Camels or super Camels.
- Take a look at the WCL7 games. Most of the times Vikings dont even advance to imperial age instead they sling mongols. They really suck in Imperial.
- Compare them to Japanese for example. Japanese have the same cavalry line, even better, because they have Husbandry at least. Japanese have the same archer line, except they have Heavy CA and Hand Cannoneer also. Japanese have crazy Champions which own all other Champions in the game and they have Samurais that own Berserk and almost every other infantry in the game (Only exception is Teutonic Knight). And yes, Japanese have the most powerful Halberdiers of the game with their faster attack rate. That is deadly. Vikings just suck with their little Pikemen. Vikings are better on water, true, but the difference is not that big, Japanese are also good at water and there are only a very few maps that is fought purely on water. Japanese are only an example to compare to Vikings and highlight the weaknesses of Vikings. I didnt say that something is wrong with Japanese. They are fine. I didnt want to compare Vikings to Mongols for example, because that is just ridiculous.
- They are historically an infantry civ, so come on, dont take away that Halberdier for them.
Of course, it will need to be tested, but still... Dont reject the halberdier from Vikings.
Saracens: they should get free Cartograpy and free Caravan, but the upgrades require a Market (which can cost less wood than other civs' market).
Aztecs:
- dont take away free loom, that is fine.
- Aztec Halberdier is a crazy idea. They definately should not get Halberdier.
- But we could give them Ring Archer Armor. They also suck so much in imp. They have no chance against Mongols or Mayans for example or in no-gold games. In mi opinion Ring Archer Armor wouldnt make them too powerful, but would provide a little bit more chance to survive...
Britons:
- Give them Cannon Galleon at least (maybe Elite too). Reason: they are the only non Meso civ without Cannon Galleon which is ridiculous if you take a look at their history. They even defeated the Spanish Armada in a sea battle (Admiral Nelson if im not mistaken). Take a look at Mongols and Huns. Why the hell do they have Cannon Galleons? They never ever built even a little fishing boat during their history, they did not use gunpowder at all. I dont say, that Cannon Galleons should be removed from them. It is OK. But Britons should get it too.
CA:
- Remove or at least reduce Parthian Tactics attack bonus against Spearman-line. Reason: The mounted units are stronger and fatser than their unmounted counterparts. Champ vs Paladin. Arbalest vs Heavy CA etc. The drawback of creating mounted units is that they have a counter unit that infantry dont. This is the Spearman line. In the current game Spearman line have no chance at all to counter Cavalry Archers. Most of the times poor Spearmen are fighting against Light Cavalry while being owned by some kind of CA in no time. This might also make some use of Swordsmen as a possible counter to Spearmen.
- Decrease base CA prise, so other civs will use it too.
- Increase Hunnic CA prise, but these are well known issues...
Mongols:
- Remove Mangudai Attack bonus against siege weapons. Mangudais are incredibly strong, they kill any units so quickly. They are a solution on their own, which is not good in an RTS game. If you remove this bonus, they will still remain the same monsters killing all the units (even Paladins), but they wont kill Rams so quick, so Mongol Castles could be Rammed. This is totaly hopeless today.
Mayans:
- Increase Plumed archer cost.
- Decrease their attack bonus against EW. Reason: Plumed Archers are OP generally. And you might be able to see some other kind of units in a Mayan war than hundreds of plums. EW is to counter ranged units... But are hopeless against Plums now. Plumed is a solution in himself, which is not good again.
EW:
- Increase their HP in Castle, thats a good idea.
- Maybe Increase 5 hp in Imperial (but that can be very OP in early imp. But if you want to make Elit up more expensive, than it could work). And fix mayan HP in 100 (So El Dorado is +35 HP). So the difference in HP between Aztec (Inca) and Mayan Warriors will be 35 only. Giving some chance to the Aztecs too, who actually are the infantry civ, and had EW in history for real, not the Mayans.
Turks: Somewhere have I read to give them +50 gold +50 stone. This is a very interesting idea. I like it. But it might be OP, because it means that they can build two towers without mining any stone and can get Blood Lines in Feudal without mining any gold. But if it is not OP it will give a very nice chance for turks, who are not very good currently.
Cyision, can you give new speach for the new civs? As you know all the speeches are real. (Chinese speak Chinese, Vikings speak probably Norwegian, but an Icelandic guy could understand it, Japanese speak Japanese, Spanish speak Spanish. These are that I am sure in. And I know that Mayan and Nahuatl (aka Aztec) languages still do exist.) It would be nice to give real speach for them, if possible. We can ask some Hungarian people to record the speach for Magyars. And somebody Living in South America could record some speach for the Incas (I am not sure what kind of language it is). Same for Indians, and so on...
Long post, I hope somebody will read it throughr really. Please, guys, write feedbacks and opinions about the above ideas. Thank you for your patience and attention.
can you give me a link like the incas one to the portuguese army ops:
as for the magyars if you really don't think they should have palas do you know what kind of units they were good countering? they hussars could have a bonus vs x units or even a speed bonus (maybe free husbandry?) and they wonder could be just a big beautiful yurt?
yes the moors are pretty much the same as saracens as far as i know. they are just for another region...
i was thinking in giving the carto bonus to the portuguese since they started to explore the seas for new lands but if sara take it the bonus could be a team bonus of carto 50% cheap or just costing food.. they would get a good boost for team games i guess.
for aztecs ring archer armor armor or even heavy scorps is a good ideia. but it as to be tested
britons destroyed the spanish armada 1588 so it's not really inaccurate
for the ca the huns bouns should remain as it is. they should be just a little cheaper for the other civs
mongols siege bonus is fine. what mongols can do without castles?
"Decrease their attack bonus against EW. Reason: Plumed Archers are OP generally. And you might be able to see some other kind of units in a Mayan war than hundreds of plums. EW is to counter ranged units... But are hopeless against Plums now. Plumed is a solution in himself, which is not good again." i agree
the aztecs ew could have a +2 bonus attack vs mayans eagles...
turks with that gold and that stone would have and aztec drush and top trush... they would be op.
this is an opportunity to fix the franks "free bloodlines"
i have some ideas for portugal too. they should have guns since they were the ones that gave it to the japonese and maybe some bonus related to that. they should have all the monastery techs. they should only have cavs and no cavalary archers(the cavalary archers is for game balance) and i think they only had light cav. they should have bloodlines and husbandy but miss the last armor upgrades they should have a strong infantry line with all the upgrades and maybe a bonus but that can be discussed later. for the water they could get free upgrades to the galley line or something like that... just to give a litlle fight to the vikings but not able to defeat them. on the unique techs they could have some king of religious tech that gives extra damage to all the units. they can also have some Chu-Ko-Nu unit because of the besteiros. i can give more ideas later those are just some major points that are a mirror of portuguese history. it would be nice that portugal and england had complementary armys for the team games because http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Portuguese_Alliance.
anyway if you see some mistake or have a better ideia feel free to say it. sorry for the messy post and if want to know more about portuguese history see this link http://historymedren.about.com/library/ ... almain.htm