NAC2 - Feedback thread

United KingdomHyunAOP

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#51
This is going to be unpopularish opinion since the vocal majority have all pretty much said the same thing here.

This is what I liked in this event:

The addition of Turkman Memb and Ornlu. Sure we didn't have killer b, zak or T90 but it's nice to have other casters get some spotlight too. Maybe next NAC (if another happens and I hope it does) we can have some more new casters join.


This is what made me tune in:

Seeing new faces like F1Re and Nicov who weren't in NAC1 and of course seeing Jordan again, as well as DauT.

This is what I think could be improved:

I'm gonna get disliked for this but I didn't mind the DauT casts with F1Re (in fact DauT and f1re was fine imo), as well as him casting with Jordan although if at any point you felt it was too much perhaps someone could have came in and warned them or told them to focus on the game more.

Humour is subjective and it's not always everyone's cup of tea and I get that and there probably was a line crossed in that specific game that daut+jordan casted and it may have ruined the professionalism but I think it's a little excessive for people to throw anger at this. Or saying that it was disrespectful of DauT being there for all players being flown in there and he resigns min 7 first game and made too many jokes when casting with Jordan. It's just DauT being DauT. Maybe with some players it's best to have 1 caster 1 player in future. Unless it's someone like mbl+liereyy who both can cast well together, that was probably my favourite player cast by far.

This is what made me turn off:

I don't think anything in NAC2 tuned me off, I liked the whole event and went above my expectations of NAC1. I think maybe working on interview questions more perhaps but other than that. I'm someone who isn't really fussy when it comes to aoe2. I love watching the game and the people and people who actively select/single people out is kinda sad really. Just appreciate the fact people went through all their lengths and came all the way in one place to play and entertain you all especially the casters who I believe didn't get paid for the event (correct me if wrong) everyone did their part in the event whether you like them or not. So thank you for that.

Edit: actually no one said this but seeing same civs over and over again was boring. I think it would be nice for first few rounds to have a civ pool. I know players hate this and based off of KOTD2 people didn't seem to like this setting. But the civ variety was poor and only viper went out his way to expand on other civs. At least for first round and second I think top tier civs shouldn't be played. Also I think the map pool for NAC2 could have some better maps in the future.

This was my favorite moment:

memb and jordan casting
daut and f1re
mbl beating viper
Mbl countering yasama towers with outposts
Seeing Nicov at an event he meets everyone for the first time especially his team mates liereyy and mbl

General notes/ what I also wanted to say:

praise the mods and the overlay guy and the invited basketball
 

GermanyThe_Philos

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Mar 14, 2018
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#52
This is what I liked in this event:
Great organisation, keeping it mostly in the schedule and the overall present enjoyment of everyone for this tournament. It had the vibe of a fun LAN-Party from back in the days, but was also quite a professional tournament. I loved the mix.
Every short recap at the end of the last series, especially the heart-to-heart interview with MbL and later Nicov.
The organisation for a public viewing, which was quite unique.

This is what made me tune in:
Seeing great players in real competitive mode and just enjoying the game with each other. Also great casting (really liked Memb's casting with basically any co-caster) and variety of maps and civs.

This is what I think could be improved:
I think, it was already mentioned many times, that the hoped for variety of civs wasn't really the case and knowing which civ and map to draft had a huge impact on the outcome of series.
I'm also on the side to keep the drafting, since it adds strategical depth to the game, but also include mirror matches or a civ-pool for certain maps. Seeing the best player battle it out with the best civ or the worst would be really interesting imo.
The public viewing location was not optimal (since they ran out of beer!) and you couldn't really hear a thing there. I ended up rewatching some of the casts, because I gave up listening to it after a few minutes. However it was a great experience to watch AoE in a crowd and should definitely be repeated!
I would also vote for the caster+player combo since these were the castings I enjoyed the most.

This is what made me turn off:
As already mentioned many times, the drunk casting, but also the drunk playing. I like DauT as much as the next guy, but I was a bit disappointed in his performance and overall his approach to the tournament (like taking it not seriously). So most of his series I didn't watch till the end. In comparison to Jordan who had even lower chances to get far in this tourney, you could see he wasn't even trying.
As much as goofing around and banter should be part of this tournament, that was a bit too much.

This was my favorite moment:
Hard to pick a moment from such a long time, but I'll take the sunday series between Viper and MbL. Not only was it an incredible casting by Memb and Jordan, but also a great series to watch. Reaching 11k Viewers and the 10k Dono by Matt was just incredible and will be remembered.

General notes/ what I also wanted to say:
I had a great time on the weekend in Hamburg and I want to say again: Really really thank you, Nili, but also to everyone involved. It was a great experience to meet some people you only heard or saw on screen, so thanks again for this opportunity!
 
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BrazilBruZi

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#53
Congrats for the great event, it was indeed amazing.
Many things I would say have been said by other members, so I will just quote some of the statements that I agree with.

This is what I think could be improved:
3. Would love to see a return to player colours.
This was my favorite moment:
Loved Liereyy+MBL casting. Wish we could have seen more of them!
General notes/ what I also wanted to say:
Not having any chinese player was a bummer considering how strong they are in AoE.
This is what I think could be improved:
I think Arena as the second most popular and standard map deserves some love
This is what I think could be improved:
- Player cams synced up;
This is what I liked in this event:
Organisation/ no delays
This is what I think could be improved:
- Less "one-dimensional" maps that heavily favor one civ over all the others
This is what made me turn off:
- Civ wins.
This is what I liked in this event:
6. Using different color Xs on the draft screen was nice
This is what I think could be improved:
3. Player colors - I miss seeing player colors
This is what I liked in this event:
Players playing without lag

Now some opionion of my own.

This is what I think could be improved :
Congrats for the visual work related to NAC2. I think it has been made better since NAC1.
That being said, I think there is still room for improvement. Perhaps you could use the current NAC logo and enhance it , aiming for something more distinctive and less generic.
In that regard, I think the ECL logo designs (tournament and stage logos) are a great example of what to look upon. Also, Memb's new logo (made since kotd2) and the video that introduces his new logo are inspiring work as well.
 

IndiaRogganWololo

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#54
This is what I liked about the event / This is what made me tune in

Pretty much everything. 8 of the best players in the world, playing at the highest possible level. No lag helped as well. It was quite nice to see all the players super focused on the games, in spite of the many distractions they could have had.

It was also super nice to see players helping other players prepare for their matches, with the draft and helping them with deciding their home maps, etc.

I loved the variation in the maps, from super aggressive maps like Seize_the_Hump to boom intensive maps like Regicide Fortress.

Also, being able to witness casting duos that hardly come together to cast tournament games, like MbL + Liereyy, Memb + Jordan, etc.

This is what I think could be improved / This is what made me turn off

The sound settings. There were some moments where one caster's mic was too loud and the other mic was too quiet.

Some caster pairings took the games a bit too casually for my taste, which was a bit of a bummer. A little trash talk here and there is fine, but the main focus, in my opinion, has to be on the game.

There were some maps where map generations were a bit unfair. For example, there were many instances in Gold Rush where the centre gold was significantly more closer to one player than the other.

Strictness of chat moderation. In my opinion the time outs/bans were too strict. Cheering for players using emotes (like the dorito for tatitoh) should be allowed and isn't something that viewers should be timed out/banned for.

This was my favourite moment

Hard to pick out one moment here, but I'd like to pick a few which I particularly enjoyed

- The moment when we hit 10,000 viewers and Memb and Jordan's reaction to it
- MbL and Liereyy casting
- MbL beating TheViper


General notes

Credits to Nili & co for hosting possibly the best 1v1 tournament in the history of the game. I, sadly, was unable to attend the meet and greet this time, but it was nice to see the community getting together and interacting.
 
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#55
This is what I liked in this event: Almost everything, especially to see the players and all the good vibes between them. DauT ofc 11 the lord is hilarious. players mics and interviews before and after games and also irl stream from memb and others.

This is what made me tune in: DauT! everything that i said before is what made me tune in, but especially the daut+fire and daut+jordan cast made me tune in and watch series that otherwise i wouldn't have seen. I think the best thing of nac is the union of top players playing each others in competitive series and top players being friends, drinking and joking on camera. Nac give us that, a mix of good aoe and IRL stuff to know the players and casters better and enjoy with them through the stream.

This is what I think could be improved: Some sound problems and some cringe moments when no one seemed to know what to do.

This is what made me turn off: basically real life 11 to many hours of games so i had to choose what series to watch and others just check the results. Unfortunately i can't spend more than 10hs per day watching aoe but i wish i could 11. And i didn't liked the nili+viper cast, seemed weird to me so i didn't turn off the stream but i did turn off the volume 11

This was my favorite moment: There were a lot of good moments can't choose one really but i really liked the daut vs viper playoff series, daut playing focus after been joking and trolling all the week, making viper work for the wins especially in g1 and g2. Also fire+daut and jordan+daut cast. memb+bbq and memb+jordan cast were amazing too.

General notes/ what I also wanted to say: There is no much to add. great event nili hope nac3 will be even better. Congratz!
 

United Statespatao

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Apr 2, 2016
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#56
This is what I liked in this event:

Amazing live audience, games. Qualifiers were a great decision.

This is what made me tune in:

This event was a can't miss - the lineup, prize pool, LAN setting etc.

This is what I think could be improved:

Viper is too good at 1v1, even more so with non-standard maps. There's no way around it at this point - it even sucks for him at this point, because the competition feels like a foregone conclusion, and he can't even lose without getting accused of throwing.

I think some type of system to give lower seeds an advantage would help, although I'm not sure what it'd look like. Perhaps some type of gambling system where the higher seed can cede advantages (map pool, civ pool) in exchange for prize or point bonuses.

KOTD2 tried to implement something like that with the multi-round civ pool, which was really creative and made Ro32 at least somewhat more interesting, but had the massive flaw of killing what would have been important series later on. That plan backfired.

This is what made me turn off:

Really felt like it was won before it started, the only question was how unmotivated Viper is.

This was my favorite moment:

The 10k series, had the best games and the best casting.

General notes/ what I also wanted to say:

<3


Editing instead of responding, to avoid 'heavy discussion':

This will massively dilute the competitiveness of the event and anyone who manages to beat Viper in a knock out with this help will never be considered a genuine winner. I can not recall any competitive tournament in any sport having such handicap for better player.
I understand the concern, but only 3 times in 25 series did the loser win more than one game. The majority of the series were sweeps, including the playoffs. As I said, KOTD2 literally just tried to do something about it last month, but it was a bad solution in the end. Maybe there's no good solution to it, I'm just being honest about what made me turn off.
 
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#57
I think some type of system to give lower seeds an advantage would help, although I'm not sure what it'd look like. Perhaps some type of gambling system where the higher seed can cede advantages (map pool, civ pool) in exchange for prize or point bonuses.
This will massively dilute the competitiveness of the event and anyone who manages to beat Viper in a knock out with this help will never be considered a genuine winner. I can not recall any competitive tournament in any sport having such handicap for better player.
 

GermanyJohn the Late

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#58
This is what I liked in this event:
The different casters. Best combination in my eyes were a high energy caster and a professional cocaster. Gives hype and quality commentary.
The player selection was good.

This is what made me tune in:
Great hype and basically what I mentioned above. Good gameplay with good commentary, not much more needed. :smile:

This is what I think could be improved:
Swiss system was pretty good, but I would have liked a round robin, too.
For the meetup: Hosting it in the summer would have been nice, so the outside area of the club would be more used and that good weather would be more likely. (However, we were really lucky this weekend and had some great weather for February!)
More standard maps! Arena should definitely be in.
As said by many people before: Mirror matches sometimes. I used to hate 1v1 Hun wars on Arabia, but these days with the many many civs I really would not mind seeing one or the other again.

This is what made me turn off:
At one point the casting paired two very quiet persons together. While they are both good individually, neither of them contributed the high energy/hype I mentioned before, turning the stream into more or less enhanced spectating. I don't want to call anyone out, since as I said before, they're both good on their own and in their own style.
Later sets weren't as interesting as the group stage ones.

This was my favorite moment:
Tournament-wise: The group stage with the many sets and many different matchups and many casters.
Meeting-wise: Meeting so many friendly people from all around the world, many previously known by their names but also many completely new. An especially nice surprise was to meet ShiNe. :D

General notes/ what I also wanted to say:
Thanks for organising the whole thing, from tournament to meetup!
 

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#59
This is what I liked in this event:
The games, the casting, the players, the way down time was filled.

This is what made me tune in:
NAC1 was the best tournament in recent aoe2 history.

This is what I think could be improved:
I loved KillerB in NAC1. Get him in NAC3 at any cost.

This is what made me turn off:
Fun day (I had to do some work anyway, I didnt mind skipping one in 9 days).
Casters that didnt moved the focus of the game in favor of drunken jibberish.
This is gonna make me unpopular, but it annoyed me slightly that Viper had to be called when his games were played earlier than scheduled.

This was my favorite moment:
Mbl vs Viper
Mbl interview (i hate/love the guy even more). Nili was amazing and Mbl really opened up. Thanks for that.

General notes/ what I also wanted to say
When is NAC3?
 
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Nepalarchxeon

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#60
I went through most of the posts here and I think I agree to a lot of the feedback (casting, organization, interaction etc.). I’ll just try to provide anything new that haven’t been mentioned before.

For me one of the best AOE2 tournaments. I tuned in whenever I could.

Just suggestions to address two minor problems that I saw:

  • Long series (potential to be terrific when its close but hard to watch when its one-sided)
For me the BO5 was the best settings of the tournament. Worked very well. Was able to finish in one go. I wish the playoffs, semis and finals were BO5 too. Also, 3-0 is more palatable than 5-0 or 7-3. If that’s not possible extend the games like tennis, where the winner in the final set needs to win with a score difference of 2. So, if the score is 2-2 in a BO5, then anyone that wins two games in a row, wins. You could have a tie-breaker after 9 or 13 games.

  • Civ/Map pool becoming repetitive.
Maybe divide the civs and maps into two pools to keep things fresh. (After two days change to the second civ pool and after another two days, change to the second map pool and finally the last two days go back to original civ pool.) If its not too hard for the players.

Aside from that would love to see more 1 on 1 with players to get to know them better like with MBL, Nicov. I think casting made everything fresh. Hope there is 1 or 2 new casters next year as well.
 

BrazilBruZi

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#61
Long series (potential to be terrific when its close but hard to watch when its one-sided)
For me the BO5 was the best settings of the tournament. Worked very well. Was able to finish in one go. I wish the playoffs, semis and finals were BO5 too. Also, 3-0 is more palatable than 5-0 or 7-3. If that’s not possible extend the games like tennis, where the winner in the final set needs to win with a score difference of 2. So, if the score is 2-2 in a BO5, then anyone that wins two games in a row, wins. You could have a tie-breaker after 9 or 13 games.
I also think shorter series is a plus.
 
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United StatesNobody41

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#62
This will massively dilute the competitiveness of the event and anyone who manages to beat Viper in a knock out with this help will never be considered a genuine winner. I can not recall any competitive tournament in any sport having such handicap for better player.
Go has handicaps for higher rated players, and i highly disagree that it will dilute the competitiveness of the event. DauT literally said in the interview at NAC2 that he hasn't been motivated for a good amount of time because theviper wins every thing. Its pretty obvious from reactions that tatoh and lierry are demotivated too, and if they are, then the gap just widens even more. This problem is growing, and will not go away by itself.
 

United StatesAlphaAndOmega

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#63
Go
Go has handicaps for higher rated players, and i highly disagree that it will dilute the competitiveness of the event. DauT literally said in the interview at NAC2 that he hasn't been motivated for a good amount of time because theviper wins every thing. Its pretty obvious from reactions that tatoh and lierry are demotivated too, and if they are, then the gap just widens even more. This problem is growing, and will not go away by itself.
Would make regular games into troll games lol. "Can he win with 20 seconds of forced idle time?" Viper has worked hard to get to his dominant position and he shouldn't be nerfed for that. Sc, sc2, wc3, etc never went with a handicap system. I'm sure 99%of other games did not either.

He is not unbeatable, as countless ladder games and a few tournament series have shown. I would not favor any handicapping no matter how it's implemented - - would be a huge turnoff.
 

United StatesNobody41

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#64
Go

Would make regular games into troll games lol. "Can he win with 20 seconds of forced idle time?" Viper has worked hard to get to his dominant position and he shouldn't be nerfed for that. Sc, sc2, wc3, etc never went with a handicap system. I'm sure 99%of other games did not either.

He is not unbeatable, as countless ladder games and a few tournament series have shown. I would not favor any handicapping no matter how it's implemented - - would be a huge turnoff.
Perhaps go is a bad example. Just an example of a "handicap": losing player in a series chooses their home map. Is this trolling? This also affects other players evenly, and not just theviper. Another thing to consider is that in those games you mentioned, I'm sure a lot of people make a living off those games and dedicate all their time to the game, evening the playing field. How many players do this in aoe2?
 
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#66
Just as a little side note i think its important to say, imo, if youre a big supporter of Daut then you'd know about his personality, hes quite a chilled out guy and always takes a fun side to life. Such things as destroying his tc when resigning and having a general laugh shouldn't be punished, and the fact that people are seeming to be quite ticked off about small things like that is kinda ruining the fun of the tournament.

DauT played through 2 qualifiers in order to get to NAC2, during the first he didnt get through and got eliminated, he stopped streaming the games, got his head down and managed to win the 2nd one. While at NAC and during the Viper games you could see how frustrated he got at points where things didnt go his way. People have been saying for a while now that when they are vs Viper they become demotivated and distracted because he's such a solid player.

It's not all about being serious and focusing 24/7, its about having fun in something you enjoy doing, otherwise you lose all interest in it, and its a shame that people want to pick up on DauT's rather chilled out attitude, just because he doesnt win all his games. We forget, it was a tournament with arguably europes best players (and Nicov/Fire ofc).
 

Irelanddooog

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#67
Just as a little side note i think its important to say, imo, if youre a big supporter of Daut then you'd know about his personality, hes quite a chilled out guy and always takes a fun side to life. Such things as destroying his tc when resigning and having a general laugh shouldn't be punished, and the fact that people are seeming to be quite ticked off about small things like that is kinda ruining the fun of the tournament.

DauT played through 2 qualifiers in order to get to NAC2, during the first he didnt get through and got eliminated, he stopped streaming the games, got his head down and managed to win the 2nd one. While at NAC and during the Viper games you could see how frustrated he got at points where things didnt go his way. People have been saying for a while now that when they are vs Viper they become demotivated and distracted because he's such a solid player.

It's not all about being serious and focusing 24/7, its about having fun in something you enjoy doing, otherwise you lose all interest in it, and its a shame that people want to pick up on DauT's rather chilled out attitude, just because he doesnt win all his games. We forget, it was a tournament with arguably europes best players (and Nicov/Fire ofc).
Completely agree with you. Another thing to remember is DauT, in addition to FiRe and Tatoh, were probably the best prepared players in terms of playing and familiarizing themselves with the mappool in the months leading up to NAC2.

Also I thought his casting was pretty damn funny. Nili + DauT was probably my favourite cast of the tournament.
 

United StatesJoshuaR

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Oct 11, 2013
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#68
This is what I liked in this event:
-Contrary to some other opinions, I really liked the map pool. Only suggestion I might make is considering changing some of the maps in different stages.
-Caster-player duos were some of my favorite, as always, but I thought the invited casters did an excellent job. I am also very in favor of an occasional player-player duo-cast and enjoyed them all (though I can imagine some being turned off by one of the series').
-You did a better job filling in time between series. I appreciated the preparation and time spent to improve the quality of the cameras/mics/vidoes, overlay, transitions, etc.
-MbL/Liereyy were an amazing casting duo.
-Coast to mountain is an excellent map

This is what made me tune in: (the above)

This is what I think could be improved:
-Agree with Awards Ceremony. Winner gets stuffed nilpferd
-After-series interviews got better as the event went on, but then that was counteracted by the series' becoming longer. The sweetspot is recapping a few great games or plays from games. In the beginning, the interviewers didn't have their legs under them. In the end, sometimes every game would be recapped. Although I like that, it does take away from the flow when an interviewer has to go back in their memory banks a couple hours to think of what the civs were for g1, let alone some useful questions. I personally like the game-by-game recaps, but you need someone taking notes to do that.
-Everything happens in the apt/live cast. I feel like some of the great games don't get their due in individual discussion threads, highlights, or whatnot. Obviously You're too tired to post everything and keep the hype going in the hours you need to be sleeping or interacting with the players and everyone in Hamburg, but maybe someone else can be assigned?
-Agree with more "behind-the-scenes." It's cool to see the couch-cam... but then after a second you realize there's no content there. No sound, everyone just lounging around. Maybe you don't even need a couch-cam, but just every once and a while during a break give Memb or someone a cam/mic to just walk around AMONGST the people in the living room and get their thoughts/hype/whatnot. You still can maintain their privacy and lack of mic etc by making it Clear when someone is Live, walking through the living room.
-Agree with Occasional mirror series. I don't really care what... team random vs set civs can both be interesting.
-On the same note, you could always mix in limited civ pools for certain maps. I can imagine it would be cruel to have Mayans-Goths-Vikings as limited options for Arena... but you could still choose some semi-balanced options on an interesting map and see a mixture of different and mirror matches, and also take that map out of the pool of "auto-wins." E.G. rather than having rehydration as a draftable map where someone has the option of picking Indians (or the other player being forced to ban them), you could make Rehydration a mirror match or a limited civ pool match.
-For a "fun setting" could do 2v1=>1v1 co-op with two team-mates on the competition computers and mics vs Nili.
-Casters should be prepped in how to work the overlays (or have it done for them all the time - which I think you did near the end)
-Agree with an earlier suggestion that you could do "pre-recorded" interviews like you often see in reality tv series like Survivor or whatnot. Or just "intro" videos like what sports programs show about teams or lineups before the match starts.
-Early invite and visa arrangements for BacT assuming there is a NAC3.

This is what made me turn off:
-I gotta work, man.

This was my favorite moment:
-G1 Liereyy-Viper series. That incredible start with Viper stealing both boars... only to find himself LOSING in castle age, going for an incredible hopeless forward castle... somehow still managing to win the game.

General notes/ what I also wanted to say:
-Just to counter what other people said... DauT was perfectly fine as a player. He tried, he performed at his current level. His presence was completely justified. Even deleting his TC and resigning at 7 minutes was fine. It was a funny moment, and he had lost the game. I think people are conflating the effort and seriousness he put into casting with the effort he put into his games.
-Next we need a MattSalsa Apt/House Cup organized by Nili. Would have better hours to view for us Americans :P
-Thank you for an amazing tournament nili. Thanks to MattSalsa, Microsoft, and everyone that donated to make this possible. Thank you to Felix, the casters, the cook, and all the people that worked on and off screen to make all of this look so good. Thank you to Ensemble Studios for making the greatest game of all time. Thanks to all the knuckleheads who still play and watch it.
 
Aug 1, 2018
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#69
This is what I liked in this event:

Non-standard maps, would even want to see MegaRandom thrown in to enhance the fun factor
A good league structure, giving players at least a few games, and each series wasn't unnecessarily long
Players commentating
Facecam

This is what made me tune in:

The love of AOE, and the non-standard maps, it would be a chore if I had to watch a lot of Arabia games

This is what I think could be improved:

Facecam can be delayed by say 5sec, coz viewers will focus on the game, and when something happens, turn and look at the facecam, we can't see all at once.

I didn't follow the entire event, but gathering a bunch of top players and playing only 1 v 1 seems very lacking. How about special competitions with money on the line, maybe Co-op MICRO MANIA, I'm sure the community would have a lot of ideas too, and if NAC3 were to happen, won't be too hard to ask for a few sponsored computer hardware?


This is what made me turn off:

BacT not getting his visa...I just think it's super interesting to see a non-English speaking guy there LOLLL

This was my favorite moment:

I will tell you after I rewatch all the games 11

General notes/ what I also wanted to say:

I don't mind the players being trollful / playful at all, they are all big boys wanting to have fun. As a viewer, you got to put yourself in the players shoes. Playing an online game and meeting others in reality is a rare occasion, and also a fun one. Viewers cannot be so selfish and demand the players this and that, their enjoyment is just as important as yours.
 
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Likes: OLADUSHEK
Feb 20, 2019
1
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#70
NAC2 was such a fun tournament to watch that it made a long-time casual lurker like me follow along for the whole week. Awesome job by all the players and casters, and especially to Nili. No tournament - or even video/stream in general - has grabbed my attention like NAC2 did.

My perspective is below. I probably have some unusual opinions compared to most folks here, partially owing to the fact that I usually only follow the AOE2 scene irregularly.

This is what I liked in this event:

It's actually hard to answer this part, because I liked most everything not listed in the turnoffs. In general, I really appreciated the chance to see the players just hang out in an apartment. It's a relatively unique thing, and really goes a long way to making a less frequent watcher more invested.

This is what made me tune in:
  • Like mentioned above, the ability to see the players both in and out of the game.
  • The "non-serious" player casting. I get to see/hear Memb, T90, Nili, and other casters cast during every other tournament/showmatch/etc. For me, I feel like I already have many opportunities to watch polished casting from the casters, and I've already got favorite casters and caster combos. On the other hand, when and where else would I get to see DauT and F1re or MbL and Lierry co-cast/goof around, especially in person? And at least for me, they were damn fun to watch - more fun than the games, at times... which were sometimes on the underwhelming side.
  • A few players in particular - MbL, DauT, TaToH, and F1re. No reasoning here, just a few guys I like watching for various reasons.
  • Nili. To be honest, prior to this event, I never really got into Nili's casting or streaming - it didn't really click for me. Although I still wouldn't put Nili as my favorite AOE2 caster, I've come to really appreciate his dry sense of humor and his observational abilities. I found the rapid-fire Q&A fun, and really liked the informal one-on-one interviews with MbL and Nicov.
This is what made me turn off (putting this first to reduce redundancy with the improvements section):
  • One-sided matches. It's a bit disappointing to see so many sweeps. When the player I was rooting for was obviously winning, I tuned out because it felt like it was already over. When the player I was rooting for was obviously losing, I tuned out because it was disheartening.
  • RBTV. I seem to be in the minority, but I really looked forward to the goofy stuff done during the fun day. However, I don't watch RBTV and had no interest in them, and the little I saw on RBTV felt like it wasn't even part of NAC2. I was hyped for the players, but I didn't really care to watch just to see if I would like the RBTV folks and format. This meant that I ended up deciding to watch clips of the players instead.
  • I'm probably going to get flak for this, but Memb's casting. It's never clicked with me, and it still doesn't. There are a number of reasons for this, but the biggest is for me is that he bulldozes over quieter people (which is most people). Co-casters and players being interviewed don't get much of a chance to speak. When he's streaming solo, his non-stop radio sportscaster style is more tolerable, though still not my thing.
  • Another probably unpopular opinion, but I personally found Viper's demeanor in the first series off-putting (smirks, sheep killing and DauT headband/socks wearing). It set a unserious, trolling kind of tone from the outset that wasn't spurred by anything, unlike DauT's ragequit or MbL's outpost rush. I get that they're friends, but it the atmosphere between the two seemed kind of cringe or tense or something, at least as a viewer. I can't really blame the DauT for ragequitting when he's having his sheep killed and losing his boars while the top player in the world is has a dozen or so of his face plaster across his forehead. It was uncomfortable to watch, and I couldn't keep watching the series.
This is what I think could be improved:
  • I don't know what could be done to make the matches less one-sided. However, it might be nice to have a mandatory 10-20 minute break every two games. It may help a tilted player have some time to get their head back in the game without the pressure of not wanting to make unscheduled breaks. Even if it didn't help the players, it may at least give some viewers a spot of hope that that could happen, sort of like half-times in sports games. On the sweeps, I stopped watching after 2-0 on the BO5s because I felt the momentum was insurmountable. I would have kept watching have if I had a reason to think the momentum could shift - and a half-time is a perfect thing for that. Also a perfect time for casual interviews or Q&A.
  • The games might also be less one-sided if Mr. Yo, Vivi, or even a few of the other Chinese players were able to make it.
  • The drunkeness/tiredness(?) of certain players. I'm actually not referring to DauT/F1re/Jordan's antics - those were at least interesting and energetic, if perhaps polarizing. I'm more referring to how some players seemed exhausted/hungover/dazed in the early half of the week. It even got pointed out in the chat repeatedly. Perhaps a day of rest like the fun day could be planned on the first day and in middle for some rest/relaxation, and the drinking limited to that day/after tournament games have been played. The latter would probably help for the people who didn't like the drunken antics, too.
  • RBTV day might have made more sense either before or after the whole tournament, so as not to interrupt the flow.
  • The group stage was kind of strange. Six of eight players moved on from group stage, making me wonder why a group stage was even necessary. At the same time, I really liked seeing everyone play everyone - except it wasn't quite everyone, which was disappointing. I think I would've preferred seeing everyone play everyone, with playoffs being limited to the top four players.
These were my favorite moments:
  • The MbL and Lierry co-cast. I loved watching them banter while still doing a perfectly adequate job of showing most of the most interesting parts of the game. Perhaps they didn't show everything, but for a casual viewer like me, a highlight reel is often more entertaining than a technical report.
  • The impromptu interview with MbL. I love the candidness from both Nili and MbL throughout the whole time. I think the instant chemistry they had would be hard to attain on stream. In some ways, the most unique and memorable moment was when MbL first entered the room and asked to talk, completely unscripted, unscheduled. It highlighted how unique NAC is.
General notes/ what I also wanted to say:

Kinda not about NAC2 per se, but I don't really understand the comments singling out DauT for not taking the tournament seriously/underperforming. Goofing off outside the games, maybe (though that seems like it's just his nature). But he came in only one spot below his seed (6 instead of 5), and that's seemingly due to Buchholz, as his win rate was the same as 5 (Nicov). Since he never played Nicov directly, he seems to have performed exactly as would be expected for his seeding. He then went on to face Viper, who swept most of his games (including Lierry in playoffs), and he played solid for several games in that series. So... I'm confused about this.

As for playing poorly/not deserving a spot, he went through an entire qualifier (and a half) and came out on top with BacT reasonably convincingly. Given his eventual results, should all of the same complaints be levied at F1re, Nicov, and everyone in the qualifiers?
 
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Likes: facepalm

Unknownmogers87

Active Member
Feb 26, 2017
135
214
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#71
This is what I liked in this event:
- Top notch organization. Some really good casting teams.


This is what made me tune in:
- High level games. Webcams, including the live viewing. Great entertainment overall.


This is what I think could be improved:
- Civ drafts are cool, force a diversity of civs being played and exclude mirror matches. However, as seen here and KOTD, the drafts are having too much impact. In many games, the civ unbalance was so big that the game was already decided. Some maps have such a dominant civ, that the draft can already decide the game in that map.

I'm conflicted about this because I previously felt that drafts should be part of the game, that top players should take seriously. But given the current situation, I think tournaments should mix in free picks (no repeat?) and/or mirror match ups (after such a long time without mirrors, watching an occasional mirror might actually be interesting).


This is what made me turn off:
- One caster in particular. Nothing personal, but I just don't enjoy his style and made me stop watching occasionally. I'd suggest at least stop forcing jokes so many times. He does have good game knowledge though.


General notes/ what I also wanted to say:
- Huge thank you Nili for this amazing event!

- It's great to have so many high level series, but I was frustrated for not being able to follow the series during the week because of work. I could only tune in for the last one, sometimes not even from the start.
 
Likes: jive36
Oct 30, 2018
1
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#72
This is what I liked in this event:

You could tell Nili put so much work/effort and passion in this event, and it really showed.
The overall production, hype, execution and theme was very well put together.

It was also great for me to see the personalities for some of the pro players whose personalities are less known (for me at least) like MBL and Lierry. I also thought that Tatoh was very professional and was really engaged in the spirit of the event. I had a positive impression of him before, but this tournament rose his stock even more both from his personality and his performance (2nd place).

This is what made me tune in:

The matches, the talent, and quality of the tournament production.

This is what I think could be improved:

I would recommend a loser match (BO3?) to compete for 3rd and 4th place and 5th and 6th to solidify a placing as opposed to ties. This would have also allowed the viewers to watch Daut vs Nicov which on paper would have seemed entertaining/competive.

The lack of diversity in civs as addressed by others. Instituting civ pools is something the fans really like, and it's the fans that are funding the event, so I think it holds merit.

This is what made me turn off:

Both the antics of Viper and Daut. Admittedly, before the event they were two of my favorite personalities who I had watched on stream and Youtube the most of all. While some of their NAC2 personalities were consistent with their stream personas, others were not. Here is my breakdown:
  • The Viper- He seemed to not to enjoy interviewing to the point where it was awkward. Either his answers were attacking the integrity of the questions (they weren't bad nor unreasonable) or he gave very vague/simplified responses, such as "I need to play better" or "I need to do better". That's a given, but fans and viewers are looking for his expertise and analysis, which he is very capable of providing, but he just wasn't engaged. For someone that makes a living off of streaming, he should really consider his fan base when acting this way. I hope he takes the feedback as encouraging and constructive.
  • Daut- I myself was very excited to see what I perceived as a more motivated Daut enter the tournament. It's hard for me to assess whether he took the matches seriously, and that's excluding the match with Lierry where he was drunk. The same criticism applies to him as Viper in terms of his strategy and insights that he shows through his streams. If he would have shown more analysis while still keeping things somewhat goofy/casual it would have been fine, but I felt he over biased on being goofy and was borderline disrespectful to the spirit of the tournament. Again, I hope he takes the feedback as encouraging and constructive.
This was my favorite moment:

Nili answering viewer questions. They were insightful yet also funny, I like his dry sense of humor.

General notes/ what I also wanted to say:

This was the best AOE2 tournament I've watched. I hope the success serves as inspiration for NAC3.
 
Nov 5, 2018
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#73
I've already posted above but just wanted to make another comment.

How about making it so that the tie breaker in between people ranked the same at the end of the Swiss system is based on how many games you won in sets in the group stage.

Maybe it might make one sided bests of 5 a little more interesting as losing 3-1 might be more valuable than losing 3-0.
 
Sep 23, 2015
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#74
I've already posted above but just wanted to make another comment.

How about making it so that the tie breaker in between people ranked the same at the end of the Swiss system is based on how many games you won in sets in the group stage.

Maybe it might make one sided bests of 5 a little more interesting as losing 3-1 might be more valuable than losing 3-0.
Jordan cries, remembering Clash of the Titans
 

United StatesD0N_

Active Member
Feb 5, 2017
16
29
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USA
#75
Very likely that I'm repeating a lot that's been already said; Hopefully this is not just a subset of opinions already presented.

This is what made me tune in:
1. It's Nili's tournament.
2. 9 days full of great Age of Empires games. Never as a kid did I imagine I'd see this happen.
3. The "informal" apartment setting, and learning a bit more about the personalities of our favourite players.
4. Really high quality games (well, most of them). Being played on LAN also means, Viper/Lierrey showing off their great micro.
5. Great casting. I'm a big fan of "Hype caster + Expert player" pairing.

This is what I liked in this event:
1. Ornlu's puns and Historical knowledge. Might be an unpopular opinion, but I love Ornlu's jokes. And I very much appreciate his historical "nuggets" and can't get enough of them.
2. BBQTurkman's tie. And his excellent commentary (which, while occasionally repetitive, is music to my ears given his smooth and fluent way of speaking)
3. Daut + Jordan drunk casting. I decided to watch that series while going to bed and I just spent the whole time laughing, which didn't help me sleep at all. And the passing moments when they did get a bit serious, they provide a level of insight that only few people can.
4. Nili + Viper awkward casting. Weird and awkward it was, but hilarious also (and very informative, of course). I'm sad it wasn't done again. Also Nili + Daut were awesome too. And their banter regarding Daut not being invited was incredibly funny.
5. MBL and Lierrey were great together as well
6. Jordan (just everything)
7. Last but not the least, Memb with his amazing passion for the game. Memb and Jordan might be my favourite casting pair now.

This is what I think could be improved:
1. Organising something of this scale is hard, and it's impossible to predict what will go wrong. As they say, "There's always a hole". And it might not seem like it from the outside, but I'm sure Nili tried to prepare for all the issues he could foresee. So perhaps this was done already, but in case not, having a day before the start of the tournament to rehearse things and trying to find potential issues that might arise and how to deal with them will make things go a lot smoother. Sound equipment, especially, should be tested thoroughly beforehand to make sure everything is working properly. Having said that, people must acknowledge that such issues are often unavoidable. Things have a tendency to break down when you most need them :Kappa:.
2. Daut + Jordan drunk casting. As fun as it was (and as much as I want to see them cast), it was rather unprofessional and I wish it were done for a non-competitive game. As an "elite" tournament, a big objective is to advertise to future sponsors and this doesn't help the cause at all.
3. Talking over your co-caster. I understand that while casting a game, people can become very excited and emotional sometimes. And while it is great, and makes for a fun show more often than not, I hate it when one of the casters talks over the other. And as long as it happens sparingly, it is fine, but I noticed it way too often during some of the casts. It's just a case of strong personalities perhaps, and it's very easy to miss such things while you are casting and in the moment; I just wish that the casters were a bit more cognizant towards their co-casters.
4. I'd like to see a bit more behind the scenes stuff.

This is what made me turn off:
I had to leave for work :frown: , although I did watch a lot in my office (and apparently my advisor doesn't mind if I watch video games at work 11). Still, haven't finished watching everything.

This was my favorite moment:
1. 11k viewers
2. MBL beating Viper. I like Viper a lot (and usually cheer for Secret), but just once I'd like to see someone beat him in a final, hopefully before I die :Kappa:. Worth to mention that it's a testament to his skill that so many people want to see him lose for a change.

General notes/ what I also wanted to say:
I missed Killer_B :frown:
Great job to everyone involved, you should be proud of your efforts. We can only go up from here.
 

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