Help a newby!

[woot]

How to deal with unbalanced teams in teamgames? Ratings are not accurate. Some hosts wanna split highest ratings. This wont solve the issue.

In most games the winning team is already clear in dark/feudal age based on the score / times for hitting next age.

Use 1v1 rate to split instead of TG rates.

 

[woot]

Thank you! i will have a look!

Is there a list of counters for every unit? For the most basic units i know the counters. For UU i don't really know or i am not sure.

I think no one created a list for the new units. Also the pdf that you linked is a bit outdated. Maybe you can create an extended counter unit list. If you have any questions regarding particular units, ask in the forum.

 

[woot]

Thank you! i will have a look!

Is there a list of counters for every unit? For the most basic units i know the counters. For UU i don't really know or i am not sure.

Take a look at this: http://www.aoe2sheet.info/
It may be helpful.

 

[AttilaTheHun]

In the new player lobby there is a much bigger gap between player skills. Teams are definitely more balanced in Medieval Siege in my experience. You will never get perfect balance, but you can always try. Don't let zero gamers into the room and split the teams carefully.

There are always higher rated players who fail and lower rated player who be better than there rating. For example consider a BF game. Some 11xx player can have the best boom and some 13xx cant do a fast castle under 22 minutes.

Use 1v1 rate to split instead of TG rates.

NPL rating isnt split between 1v1 and TG.

Take a look at this: http://www.aoe2sheet.info/
It may be helpful.

I will have a look.

 

[AttilaTheHun]

Learning closed maps is pretty easy. Every games has the same vibe.
1. Go to castle age (i mostly goes for 28+2 FC).
2. Build more TC (In most games i have 3) to get many villagers (i most games i have 150 out of 225/250).
3. Go imperial around minute 33 (seems like most people go around this time).
4. Start trade (lots of trade cars) and start making an army at the same time.
5. At some point: Delete vills to get some more space for army.
6. At some point it is GG at some side.

So at the start you have a 6-steps strategy. I think i got the basics of this strategy.

For open maps it is different. The game is much more diverse. There can be fighting in Dark Age (drush, douche), Feudal Age (towers, scouts, archers, ...), Castle Age (Knights, X-bows, UU, ...) and imperial age (Really depends on civ). For some reason everytime i try an open map, i just go for FC. In most games the enemy also goes for FC, it goes well. If the enemy starts a feudal war or drush i am screwed. It just ends in a GG. I really don't know all the different strats out of my head. I really need to learn them. Are there any good shortcuts to learn strategies quickly? Is it just remembering the BO? Are there other tricks? I feel i got a bit stuck at this point. How did you start learning the different strategies?

 

[woot]

Learning closed maps is pretty easy. Every games has the same vibe.
1. Go to castle age (i mostly goes for 28+2 FC).
2. Build more TC (In most games i have 3) to get many villagers (i most games i have 150 out of 225/250).
3. Go imperial around minute 33 (seems like most people go around this time).
4. Start trade (lots of trade cars) and start making an army at the same time.
5. At some point: Delete vills to get some more space for army.
6. At some point it is GG at some side.

So at the start you have a 6-steps strategy. I think i got the basics of this strategy.

For open maps it is different. The game is much more diverse. There can be fighting in Dark Age (drush, douche), Feudal Age (towers, scouts, archers, ...), Castle Age (Knights, X-bows, UU, ...) and imperial age (Really depends on civ). For some reason everytime i try an open map, i just go for FC. In most games the enemy also goes for FC, it goes well. If the enemy starts a feudal war or drush i am screwed. It just ends in a GG. I really don't know all the different strats out of my head. I really need to learn them. Are there any good shortcuts to learn strategies quickly? Is it just remembering the BO? Are there other tricks? I feel i got a bit stuck at this point. How did you start learning the different strategies?

Some remember BOs and some just get a feeling of what they need to do. You could watch a recording or VOD and practice it in real game.
Pick up one strat and play a few games with that same opening. Transition after the early feudal would come naturally I think.

Some basics:

1. Standard feudal scouts is 20 to 22 pop.

2. For arch, we need to be running two buildings so can't up so fast. Usually 22/23 pop.
3. If dark age militia, need 27/28 pop (24 pop + 3 militia). If drush+fc, normally need 31 pop (28 pop + 3 militia)

4. For m@a, you can do same setup as scouts (21/22 pop) but send 2 vills to gold just before clicking up. Usually barrack would be half constructed when you click up. Standard is 3 m@a.

5. If you expect to make some walls very early you need to keep track of how much wood you have during transition. Keeping track of wood is very important during dark to feudal transition. Micro managing the wood vills helps a lot in this. Also if you have set BOs, it is helpful. If you play by feel, need to monitor the resources for transistion a bit more.

For strats that need fast rush in feudal such as m@a, scouts, m@a+forward, put only 3 vills on wood initially (exception - mass walling etc)
For strats that don't need fast rush such as archery opening, put 4 vills on wood.
For early barrack strategies on standard maps, put 4 vills on wood initially.

Also look up how many vills you need to run a single building such as 6 food vills for 1 tc, how many for 1 archer, 1 stable, etc. Personally I do it by feel and also keep moving vills if I get too much of one resource. But most players know these numbers properly.
While playing keep track of the resource count and if you've overflow or underflow in something, try to balance it better next game.

 

[_unicorn]

I wouldn't do "same setup as scouts" for m@a cause m@a build requires a gold mine in addition to rax so definitely 4 on wood are needed.

 

[IamJeo]

I wouldn't do "same setup as scouts" for m@a cause m@a build requires a gold mine in addition to rax so definitely 4 on wood are needed.

4w is more relaxed for wood(and allows farms, early walling), but MaA is doable with 3w start if the farms aren't created early, and mining camp is delayed 25sec, where the first goldminer mines gold, waiting for 100w. So it can be done as a change of plans if scouting opponent's MaA and wanting to counter it, for example. 4w start is definitely not necessary, although probably better if looking to open 20-21pop MaA instead of 22.

 

[_unicorn]

4w is more relaxed for wood(and allows farms, early walling), but MaA is doable with 3w start if the farms aren't created early, and mining camp is delayed 25sec, where the first goldminer mines gold, waiting for 100w. So it can be done as a change of plans if scouting opponent's MaA and wanting to counter it, for example. 4w start is definitely not necessary, although probably better if looking to open 20-21pop MaA instead of 22.

"Doable" doesn't mean "better". Also, the thread is called "help a newby" so it's definitely not a place to suggest extreme builds.

 

[IamJeo]

"Doable" doesn't mean "better". Also, the thread is called "help a newby" so it's definitely not a place to suggest extreme builds.

I didn't claim it to be better, nor am I advising anyone to do said builds as default. I was simply noting that it is in fact not a necessity to start 4w in order to execute a timing-flawless MaA opening. (having the rax/units created on time)

 

[AttilaTheHun]

Are there any rules for all upgrades? Eco upgrades, military upgrades, ...what is the best timing for the upgrades.

 

[Deathcounter]

Are there any rules for all upgrades? Eco upgrades, military upgrades, ...what is the best timing for the upgrades.

Depends on the build order.
You always want the wood upgrade as fast as possible. Once you up an age, press your go to lumbercamp hotkey and research

 

[iViktorius]

As a general rule of thumb regarding blacksmith (military) upgrades:
- range/attack upgrades for ranged units before armor; e.g.: archers/cavalry archer/skirmisher
- armor upgrades for melee units before attack; e.g.: infantry/cavalry

Both are intended for maximizing damage. With ranged units you want to stay out of harms way and do damage, therefore range/attack is better. With melee units you want them to survive as long as possible to do damage, therefore armor is better (one more full attack is more damage than +1 damage on all the previous attacks).

 

[AttilaTheHun]

Is there something like do fletching if you have x archers? Or do wheelbarrow if you have y villagers?

 

[chrummi]

Hard to say. Fletching shoud be on your priority list if youre going archers, you want to have it before the first big engagement. I would try to get it as fast as possible, even if you only have about 5 or 6 archers it is extremely useful for them. Wheelbarrow timing should mainly depend on the number of farmers you have since they profit the most of it. If youre going for a fast castle you get wheelbarrow in castle age, if youre playing a longer feudal game you usually get it in feudal. Researching wheelbarrow takes the same time it takes to create 3 villagers, so the boost you get from it should be bigger than having 3 additional vils, otherwise its not worth getting it. But putting the theoretical numbers away, in real games its usually a good idea to get wheelbarrow when youre heavily housed, that will happen often enough 11.

 

[AttilaTheHun]

Is this true for all upgrades? Do blacksmith upgrades ASAP even if you have just some units?

 

[chrummi]

No, not for all upgrades. I would say fletching is the most important one, since it gives you not only 1 additional attack but also +1 range, this is extremely important. The archer defense upgrade is also important, but it can wait a bit longer. If you fight vs other archer/skirms you wanna get it rather soon in feudal, if your opponent makes scouts or infantry and you can ceep them at distance you dont really need it that early, you better save the food for going to castle age. Cavaly armor (and bloodlines, i also put it in here since its also sort of a defense upgrade) is a thing you only get in feudal when youre going for a prolonged scout war, some people will say you some concrete numbers like after 6 or 8 scouts you should get bloodlines, but i think its better to look at the specific situation. If your opponent is pretty open you dont really need defense on your scouts, just try to avoid his army and go for the vils. If hes walled you also only need them if you go for the fight against his army. IF you wanna fight off your opponents defense so you can kill his vils easier then the upgrades can be useful (against spears bloodlines is way better than the armor upgrade). It also depends on your strategy after you went scouts. If you wanna switch into archers/crossbows later you shouldnt get the upgrades, if you plan to go knights/camels/CA in castle age it cant hurt to get the upgrades for you scouts, but this slows down your castle time so you still have to think carefully about it. Infantry armor is always never researched in feudal for m@a or some spears, only if you plan to go all in in feudal with infantry it can be worth it. As a meso civ going for eagles its also worth considering getting the armor in feudal. Forging is researched very rarely in feudal age, in my opinion (but im not really a player, most stuff im telling here comes from watching games) people should get it more often for their scouts to pick off vils. Scouts with forging kill vils in 8 hits instead of 10, so it could be really worth it. But Armor is usually way more important for melee units, so most players dont get forging util late castle/early imp.

In castle age you usually have high numbers of units, so the upgrades are worth it most of the times. Especially Bodkin is important, you should get it as soon as you hit castle, cavalry armor is also important but since you only start to create knights/camels starting in castle age you can delay the upgrade a bit until youve got some army numbers. You usually dont go for infantry in castle age as the bulk of your army, so those upgrades are not often researched. I think its only worth it if you get a lot of pikes to defend against knights, if youre going for eagles (then you also should get the armor as soon as you hit castle if you already have a big number of eagles), if you try to counter the opponents eagles with your longswords or if you go for an infantry heavy strategy in castle age (which is rarely a good idea if you dont have eagles, only for goths it makes somewhat sense if you fight against archers and get your huskarls out, but even then you usually open with knights or crossbows, and against standard crossbows huskarls dont even need an armor upgrade).

In Imperial you should get bracer/plate barding armor as soon as you get up, depending on if you went for archers or cavalry, and you should also get your other upgrades as soon as you can afford them, for cavalry forging etc., for ranged units chemistry (i would prefer chemistry over the armor upgrade, but always get bracer first) and archer armor, and the infantry armor if you plan to switch to infantry in imperial.

 

[AttilaTheHun]

Just a stupid question, not worth his own thread. So i use this thread. Does deleting your own units do count toward the units lost? Loosing units to boars does. Deleting your own too? I dont think soo.

 

[chrummi]

no it doesnt. also demos or petards dying by attacking something dont count there. converted units count as lost units, but not as killed units for you opponent.

 

[AttilaTheHun]

Long time not see.

I didnt play much recently. So practicing BOs isnt my part, but most players in NPL dont know BOs. I feel i have a good understanding (relative to my rating) in the macro part of the game, i fail horrible at microing. If i wanna improve i need to become better in microing my units. Can someone give some tips for microing my units? All tips and tricks are very welcome.

 

[AttilaTheHun]

So, any way to get better in micro?

Answer would be: Practise. My respons will be: What and how?