they wont win that, yesI don’t think that supplies changes so much about the viability of goths tbh. Even with supplies most civs won’t want to go into an imperial infantry war, so there it has no effect. Only changes are probably for Slavs, Japanese, Aztecs, Burmese that now can credibly enter a Champ war against Goths (even though Aztecs and Japanese still might not want to due to better options).
@TriRem What about a mild eco bonus like "economic buildigs (lumber, mining, mill) give +5 pop space I think it fits more the civ's spirit
Some strong civs shine in at least two different units.
Mayans have cheap archer line (plus obsidian arrows), and super FU elite eagle warriors, and ofc amazing unique unit.
Slavs have super FU infantery and cheap siege, besides a huge eco bonus.
Mongols have fast firing CAs/mangudai and more HP on LC line.
Aztecs have great infantery and great FU elite skirmishers, plus a great eco bonus.
I could continue but the point is pretty clear. But goths have nothing but cheap infantery which is a nice post imp combo but it can be countered by almost any infantery civ (jap, slav, aztec, vik, etc). So they only rely on infantery with no eco bonus and no other strenghtened unit.
My point is that in addition or instead of some eco buff, they would also need improvements in some other unit lines in order to get diversity and adapt to certain situations.
me. goths are one-dimensional, but im fine with that. Acess to huskarls is huge, with the husk-champ-halb triangle they can counter almost anything, at least in imp. Maybe giving them Plate Barding could be an option, so they can go for Fully upgraded Cavalier, which is a decent option for early IMP, especially as TG pocket
@TriRem I usually really like most of your balance suggestions, but i think your changes are going too far. Goths can beat any civ in imp, even with supllies their infantry spam is almost unstoppable in a 1v1 as soon as they reach imp with a healthy economy. Getting to that point is the hard part, and thats how it is supposed to be. Cheaper militia in dark age is fine, but adding an eco bonus on top of that makes them average in early game, while OP in imp... and i think weak in early/mid game while OP in imp is much better for balance
This looks like the best idea so far. Slight nerf to late imp spam but small early eco boost and more versatility with cavalry line. I like it. I would still not pick them but they would be less awful :-)Goths were already in need of a buff before supplies was introduced, and even more so now.
That being said, giving goth plate mail would not solve the most important issue :
Goth are a one dimensional civ that obnoxious when it can shine and extremely weak outside of these situations.
More so than imperial age techs, Goths need early game bonuses. The most commonly proposed is -20% cheaper infantry in dark age, and that's the one that would make the most sense.
But I don't think it would be enough. Goths need an actual economy bonus, and a decent option for that would be to have 50% cheaper economy techs (lumber/mill/mining/TC). It would add up early on, where Goths are at their weakest without being overwhelming.
I think these changes would be enough to make Goths a lot more viable, specially on open maps. However I think we can go further and tweak the civ a bit more to make the civ less one dimensional and open up the late game options outside of infantry. Giving Plate Barding to make Cavalry more viable would go a long way.
If it proves necessary, reducing perfusion to 50% faster would be a good compromise I think.
So here you go, here are my changes to Goths :
- Economy technologies are 50% cheaper
- Infantry 20% cheaper in dark age, -35% in feudal onwards
- Get plate barding armor
- Perfusion reduced to +50%
Mayans actually already have that, in fact for every resourcesAnother unused bonus would be huntables contain extra food - similar to the Tatar bonus. This would expand on the existing hunt bonus, and helps them early on where they need it most.
The Meta against Goths for many civs is gain an advantage with early aggression, then in late game finish out with a champion transition. Champion transition works well for other civs, if they are significantly ahead. Think about britons, Japs, Slavs vs Goths. These civs are already favored, but supplies means they they need less of a lead to close out the game.I don’t think that supplies changes so much about the viability of goths tbh. Even with supplies most civs won’t want to go into an imperial infantry war, so there it has no effect. Only changes are probably for Slavs, Japanese, Aztecs, Burmese that now can credibly enter a Champ war against Goths (even though Aztecs and Japanese still might not want to due to better options).