Bought a new pc, still too slow for AoE 2: DE?

[Vikingo]

Hi guys,

I bought a new laptop just to play some good old Age of Empires II.

Specs:
DELL XPS 9560
i7-7700HQ @ 2.8 Ghz
16Gb RAM
GTX1080 4Gb
Intel(R) HD Graphics 630 4Gb
477 Gb SSD

I'm playing on a 2nd monitor, connected by USB-C

My opponents are often complaining about lagg. The clock next to my name is often yellow.

Benchmark at low settings: 1114.8
FPS: 28 to 33

Here a screenshot of the task manager during the benchmark: (it's usually stable, but when going back to main menu, usage almost doubles, as visible in this screenshot below)

Internet
Download: 95 Mbit/sec
Upload: 90 Mbit/sec


Can anyone explain if the lagg is caused by my laptop, or by the internet?
Did I just buy a laptop with spec too low for this game?

Happy to hear your opinion and expierence!

Cya!

 

[King_Marv]

Why you buy a laptop with such old components

 

[Vikingo]

Why you buy a laptop with such old components

I thougt, this game is a lot older...

 

[n0brain]

aoe2 is very specific in its needs. here is a few essential thing:
1) in windows make sure you are in peroformance mode, not some eco power saving thing
2) make sure aoe2de is using the dedicated gpu (simple short tutorial) and not the integrated graphics, this sadly happens often due to weird windows stuff
3) ingame: make sure to not use enhanced graphics dlc and set particles to low
4) ingame: enable vsync, helps to reduce number of unessential frames that are rendered.
5) try without the second monitor. sometimes there are issues with multimonitor setups. if it helps we can look further into why and potentially solve that.
6) if your monitor is using more than 1080p resolution, restrict ur game to 1080p. in aooe2 it has a lot of cpu impact to run higher resolutions.

7) aoe2 only needs little gpu but requires very high single core performance. with just 2.8 ghz its not really top end for aoe, since it cant utilize all the extra cores/threads. there would have been much cheaper laptops with better performance for aoe2, sorry especially ur gpu is total overkill since aoe2 will be completely bottlenecked by cpu on these laptop processors (edit: u wrote 1080, but taskmanager shows 1050, 1050 is still high for aoe2, but not as crazy)

if you really bought it mainly for aoe2, i seriously suggest selling it / giving it back and getting a better suited model even used price on ebay for this is higher than a newer ryzen 7 notebook with 4+ ghz (which i would consider better regardless of aoe2 or not. something with a 4700, 4750 or 4800. those are available for less than 800 wich seems to be about ur laptops used price on ebay.)

 

[Shakal]

I have worse specs and the game runs smoothly
Are you sure the game runs on nvidia graphic card and not the integrated one?

 

[Semisky]

1. 30 FPS something is not too good to be honest. Maybe you can post your monitor spec as well. (resolution, frame rate)
2. Don’t turn on UHD for this spec
3. A screenshot of performance when there is an actual lag will help. DE and windows can have magic problems due to a good company called microxxxx

(looking at ur gpu usage, your de should be running on nvidia gpu instead of the integrated)

 

if you really bought it mainly for aoe2, i seriously suggest selling it / giving it back and getting a better suited model even used price on ebay for this is higher than a newer ryzen 7 notebook with 4+ ghz (which i would consider better regardless of aoe2 or not). something with a 4700, 4750 or 4800, 4850 or even 5700u

Yeah, or use it until AoE4 comes out, the specs should be okayish to play it, especially with a good (enough) GPU.

 

[adam7777]

Dell XPS is unfortunately not meant for gaming. The real problem is the build, the CPU and GPU are close and have bad cooling so the laptop throttles itself (price for being thin with good hardware). I also have an XPS, it was horrible at first but managed to make it playable(not great but still).

Most importantly download Throttlestop and undervolt the cpu as much as you can(many tutorials out there, not risky). Also set the mode in Dell Thermal Manager to maximum performance. I think elevating the laptop by its sides so the airflow became better helped too.

+ obviously use minimum graphics.

 

[Vikingo]

Thanks for the support guys!

@n0brain
1) in windows make sure u are in peroformance mode, not some eco power saving thing CHECK
2) make sure aoe2de is using the dedicated gpu (simple short tutorial) and not the integrated graphics, this sadly happens often due to weird windows stuff CHECK
3) ingame: make sure to not use enhanced graphics dlc and set particles to low CHECK
4) ingame: enable vsync, helps to reduce number of unessential frames that are rendered. CHECK
5) try without the second monitor. sometimes there are issues with multimonitor setups. if it helps we can look further into why and potentially solve that. CHECK

I ran the benchmark a few times with settings as you mentioned. The results are the same.

7) aoe2 only needs little gpu but requires very high single core performance. with just 2.8 ghz its not really top end for aoe, since it cant utilize all the extra cores/threads. there would have been much cheaper laptops with better performance for aoe2, sorry especially ur gpu is total overkill since aoe2 will be completely bottlenecked by cpu on these laptop processors (edit: u wrote 1080, but taskmanager shows 1050, 1050 is still high for aoe2, but not as crazy)

Thanks for the feedback. And yes it's indeed a 1050.

if you really bought it mainly for aoe2, i seriously suggest selling it / giving it back and getting a better suited model even used price on ebay for this is higher than a newer ryzen 7 notebook with 4+ ghz (which i would consider better regardless of aoe2 or not. something with a 4700, 4750 or 4800. those are available for less than 800 wich seems to be about ur laptops used price on ebay.)

Thanks. I will look into it, so its all about clock speed. I have no idea what threats/cores are/do but will investigate it!

I have worse specs and the game runs smoothly
Are you sure the game runs on nvidia graphic card and not the integrated one?

Yes I double checked it. I've put it on integraded, tested it, and put it back on nvidia. Integraded gave 25 FPS and Nvidia 30 FPS. Thanks!

@Semisky​

1. 30 FPS something is not too good to be honest. Maybe you can post your monitor spec as well. (resolution, frame rate) Lenovo ThinkVision P27h-20, 60Hz
2. Don’t turn on UHD for this spec CHECK
3. A screenshot of performance when there is an actual lag will help. DE and windows can have magic problems due to a good company called microxxxx Will do, however my opponents usually complain when I'm not expriencing that much lagg. Might also be that I have gotten used to it.

(looking at ur gpu usage, your de should be running on nvidia gpu instead of the integrated) Yes, double checked this.

Yeah, or use it until AoE4 comes out, the specs should be okayish to play it, especially with a good (enough) GPU.

Okay, thank you. Will look into it.

Dell XPS is unfortunately not meant for gaming. The real problem is the build, the CPU and GPU are close and have bad cooling so the laptop throttles itself (price for being thin with good hardware). I also have an XPS, it was horrible at first but managed to make it playable(not great but still).

Most importantly download Throttlestop and undervolt the cpu as much as you can(many tutorials out there, not risky). Also set the mode in Dell Thermal Manager to maximum performance. I think elevating the laptop by its sides so the airflow became better helped too.

+ obviously use minimum graphics.

You must be right about that the laptop is not for gaming
The laptop is placed in a 45 degree angle so the bottom is completely free.
I will do the undervolting, to be sure. But the CPU and GPU temperatures look fine and as far as I see the CPU is running at max frequency, so it's not being throtteled. I usually also check this ingame but will continue to do so, to be sure.

Thanks again guys!

I will keep you posted.

 

[Vikingo]

if you really bought it mainly for aoe2, i seriously suggest selling it / giving it back and getting a better suited model even used price on ebay for this is higher than a newer ryzen 7 notebook with 4+ ghz (which i would consider better regardless of aoe2 or not. something with a 4700, 4750 or 4800. those are available for less than 800 wich seems to be about ur laptops used price on ebay.)

Question about this AMD Ryzen 7 4800HS. They are clocked at 2.9 (guaranteed base clock) to 4.2 GHz (Turbo) and support SMT / Hyperthreading (16 threads). AoE benefits only from the 4.2 Ghz Turbo and NOT from the Hypertreading, is that correct?

 

[OnlyMouseShift]

I have a laptop with much worse specs but the at the lowest possible settings i get 60fps without any problems. But i make sure to not use wifi at all because thats when i start to lag. Maybe you have some extra programs running in the background that cause the FPS to drop.

 

@Vikingo Haven't tried it but might be good try for you:

GitHub - gregstein/SenseiDE: Unleash The Ultimate Performance from Age of Empires 2 Definitive

Unleash The Ultimate Performance from Age of Empires 2 Definitive - GitHub - gregstein/SenseiDE: Unleash The Ultimate Performance from Age of Empires 2 Definitive

github.com

 

[SouFire]

Question about this AMD Ryzen 7 4800HS. They are clocked at 2.9 (guaranteed base clock) to 4.2 GHz (Turbo) and support SMT / Hyperthreading (16 threads). AoE benefits only from the 4.2 Ghz Turbo and NOT from the Hypertreading, is that correct?

That ryzen is a third gen, the max boost applies up to 4-6 threads under load, then it lowers the frequency depending on the cpu load, base frequency is for all cores and threads under load, same behavior on intel older gens, only 10th gen and newer have extended boost to all cores, but keep in mind for laptops the thermals are the real issue, both amd and intel have to lower the frequency if its too hot(thermal trotting).

To answer your question, yeah a newer laptop with a modern processor would be better for you, cause they have higher IPC which is what this game really needs.

What is the resolution and the zoom interval that you are using, cause witht hose specs you should be able to run it higher than 30 fps, unless you are zooming out to almost 4k, other thing to check is your benchmark score with the laptop screen, i don't know if the usb c you are using to connect the other display might be nerfing the system, remember some wires can only do 30hz.

 

[VNS_Spring__]

its time to retire AOE, your Laptop has been too tired of you

 

[Catiaphract]

aoe2 is very specific in its needs. here is a few essential thing:
1) in windows make sure you are in peroformance mode, not some eco power saving thing
2) make sure aoe2de is using the dedicated gpu (simple short tutorial) and not the integrated graphics, this sadly happens often due to weird windows stuff
3) ingame: make sure to not use enhanced graphics dlc and set particles to low
4) ingame: enable vsync, helps to reduce number of unessential frames that are rendered.
5) try without the second monitor. sometimes there are issues with multimonitor setups. if it helps we can look further into why and potentially solve that.
6) if your monitor is using more than 1080p resolution, restrict ur game to 1080p. in aooe2 it has a lot of cpu impact to run higher resolutions.

7) aoe2 only needs little gpu but requires very high single core performance. with just 2.8 ghz its not really top end for aoe, since it cant utilize all the extra cores/threads. there would have been much cheaper laptops with better performance for aoe2, sorry especially ur gpu is total overkill since aoe2 will be completely bottlenecked by cpu on these laptop processors (edit: u wrote 1080, but taskmanager shows 1050, 1050 is still high for aoe2, but not as crazy)

if you really bought it mainly for aoe2, i seriously suggest selling it / giving it back and getting a better suited model even used price on ebay for this is higher than a newer ryzen 7 notebook with 4+ ghz (which i would consider better regardless of aoe2 or not. something with a 4700, 4750 or 4800. those are available for less than 800 wich seems to be about ur laptops used price on ebay.)

one question about vsync, in game options it says that disabling vsync may improve performance (the opposite of what you said) but may introduce tearing artifacts (idk what is that)... so are they wrong on that description, or it just depends on your frame rate, in that case, should i have to go to my monitor options and slow down the frame rate to make it work?. TY

 

[Semisky]

Lenovo ThinkVision P27h-20

i checked this monitor up Lenovo website. It‘s a 60 hz 2k monitor. Now this is a potential issue looking at your specs. Also I’m not sure what kind cable/dock you are using between your laptop and monitor.

First, can you try run Age on original laptop screen without secondary display. Then can you record your FPS, as well as how often it lags. If there’s no problem on the original display, then the cable or your spec would be the probluem.

 

[IRC_tomate]

4) ingame: enable vsync, helps to reduce number of unessential frames that are rendered.

I would say make sure u DISABLE vsync since the frames per second of the game are already low (below monitors reflesh rate).

It is suposed to increase performance and causes screen tearing as a drawback, which (@OfeliaAoE) for real time strategy games is not noticeable, mostly noticeable in first person shooter games but the appreciation varies from player to player.

this is it, notice the desync on two different image rendered frames? *that horizontal line*

If you want a game to run at a specific frame rate (and dont wanna use vsync) you can cap it with nvidia control panel (I believe amd too) or other software like MSI afterburner (+rivatuner statistics server)

Also @Vikingo MSI afterburner is really handy to notice hardware bottlenecks and performance issues.


edit: trying to fix the attached images 11

 

[Catiaphract]

I would say make sure u DISABLE vsync since the frames per second of the game are already low (below monitors reflesh rate).

It is suposed to increase performance and causes screen tearing as a drawback, which (@OfeliaAoE) for real time strategy games is not noticeable, mostly noticeable in first person shooter games but the appreciation varies from player to player.

this is it, notice the desync on two different image rendered frames? *that horizontal line*

If you want a game to run at a specific frame rate (and dont wanna use vsync) you can cap it with nvidia control panel (I believe amd too) or other software like MSI afterburner (+rivatuner statistics server)

Also @Vikingo MSI afterburner is really handy to notice hardware bottlenecks and performance issues.


edit: trying to fix the attached images 11

Ty for answer! I checked with benchmar test with and without vsync and with vsync with screen on 60, 50 and 30 hz update rate, and didnt make any difference on the score.

 

[n0brain]

Question about this AMD Ryzen 7 4800HS. They are clocked at 2.9 (guaranteed base clock) to 4.2 GHz (Turbo) and support SMT / Hyperthreading (16 threads). AoE benefits only from the 4.2 Ghz Turbo and NOT from the Hypertreading, is that correct?

yes. but luckily, since the new ryzens have a pretty low powerconsumption (makes cooling easier) and aoe2 mainly using 1 core, it should turbo all the time. unless u do a lot of other stuff on the side ofc

 

[n0brain]

one question about vsync, in game options it says that disabling vsync may improve performance (the opposite of what you said) but may introduce tearing artifacts (idk what is that)... so are they wrong on that description, or it just depends on your frame rate, in that case, should i have to go to my monitor options and slow down the frame rate to make it work?. TY

I would say make sure u DISABLE vsync since the frames per second of the game are already low (below monitors reflesh rate).

normally you would be correct, but aoe2 does some weird things. im not sure why, but testing on multiple devices here showed weird spread of the frames when not running vsync, even when below monitor refreshrate. enabling helpeed there, not by having more frames but having them more even, which is extremely important for a resposive feeling. vsync is a tricky setting many times, and often comes down to "does it feel better in my current environment". probably should have been a bit clearer in my initial statement.

 

[n0brain]

That ryzen is a third gen, the max boost applies up to 4-6 threads under load, then it lowers the frequency depending on the cpu load, base frequency is for all cores and threads under load, same behavior on intel older gens, only 10th gen and newer have extended boost to all cores, but keep in mind for laptops the thermals are the real issue, both amd and intel have to lower the frequency if its too hot(thermal trotting).

4800H and 4800HS Ryzens are both Renoir (Zen2), not 3rd

 

[AllPingsConsidered]

7) aoe2 only needs little gpu but requires very high single core performance. with just 2.8 ghz its not really top end for aoe, since it cant utilize all the extra cores/threads. there would have been much cheaper laptops with better performance for aoe2, sorry

yes. but luckily, since the new ryzens have a pretty low powerconsumption (makes cooling easier) and aoe2 mainly using 1 core, it should turbo all the time. unless u do a lot of other stuff on the side ofc

in OPs case doesn't the intel turbo as well if cooled properly? according to screenshot runs at 3.5 Ghz which is 20% slower than the ryzen (4.2 Ghz) yes, but is the cpu really likely to be the main issue in this specific case ? (context: I have no idea of aoe2's specific requirements, just curious to understand)

 

[Catiaphract]

@Vikingo did you make it work? I got a i5 7 gen 8gb ram and gtx950 2 gb and the game works fine, i use 1600 x 900 resolution, and i get 1025 on the benchmark, the game runs fine but i had to stop streaming becose it was bad, without streaming is fine even with 1920 x 1080 it was fine.. so i think it should work with your pc

 

[n0brain]

in OPs case doesn't the intel turbo as well if cooled properly? according to screenshot runs at 3.5 Ghz which is 20% slower than the ryzen (4.2 Ghz) yes, but is the cpu really likely to be the main issue in this specific case ? (context: I have no idea of aoe2's specific requirements, just curious to understand)

yes, that is exactly why i suggested this. aoe2 basicly ONLY cares about single core cpu speed if ure not running 4k graphics. on top of that the new ryzens have much better ipc compared to the old intel model, so even on same clockspeed the amd one should come out slightly ahead.

either way definitely make sure to not run at higher than 1920x1080, maybe even just 1600x900 ,as Ofelia suggested, resolutions on these mobile laptop cpus. in aoe2 graphics are cpu bound usually not gpou, and lower res does help in the specific case of aoe2 a lot.

 

[Vikingo]

i checked this monitor up Lenovo website. It‘s a 60 hz 2k monitor. Now this is a potential issue looking at your specs. Also I’m not sure what kind cable/dock you are using between your laptop and monitor.

First, can you try run Age on original laptop screen without secondary display. Then can you record your FPS, as well as how often it lags. If there’s no problem on the original display, then the cable or your spec would be the probluem.

I tested without the monitor, and get the same 30 FPS at the benchmark, so this is not the issue I think. Both around 1120 benchmark score.

I would say make sure u DISABLE vsync since the frames per second of the game are already low (below monitors reflesh rate).

I tried with VSYNC disabled and enabled, same FPS at the benchmark: around 30 FPS.
Vsync enabled: 1120 benchmark score.
Vsync disabled: 1130 benchmark score.

@Vikingo did you make it work? I got a i5 7 gen 8gb ram and gtx950 2 gb and the game works fine, i use 1600 x 900 resolution, and i get 1025 on the benchmark, the game runs fine but i had to stop streaming becose it was bad, without streaming is fine even with 1920 x 1080 it was fine.. so i think it should work with your pc

Not yet. My benchmarks are good, above 1100 so thats not the problem. FPS is always around 30, regardless the resolution.