B-stream can't be at future events

[Rista]

B stream by itself isn't a terrible idea if schedule is an issue. I have no problem with some games being shown on another stream.

The problem here is that the planning was awful. It felt like it was something they decided at the last minute and after doing all the hard work just said f it.

Not only it wasn't clear where and when the B stream will be shown but when I joined it looked so unprofessional that I wasn't sure if I was at the right place. $200k tournament and a host being a 1100 elo streamer with a cam at all times was pretty strange. If it wasn't for Survivalist, the whole thing would have been a joke. I know they wanted a woman to be involved but there must have been better options and/or better preparation.

And then on the main stream you have spoilers so basically impossible to watch all games without knowing results.

Great tournament still but not as good as RBW 5. Will be the biggest AOE2 tournament only by prize pool.

 

[Tempires]

Imagine if BOs would have been cut instead of having b stream games. Seems a bit waste for AoE1 finals to be played in Germany if cut from BO7 to BO5 2 days before final while games are very fast (grand final lasted like 30 mins). AoE1 semifinals were 2xBO9 (they played BO9 for both ROR and DE)....

 

[The Bloodless]

Lol what's the alternative, not broadcasting? I know a lot of companies that would enjoy such a statement, introducing a downgrade as a bonus.

It reminds me government of my country, calling raise of prices as "update".

The alternative was the format they had previously aka less games (about 1/2 the number)

 

[Festivus]

The problem here is that the planning was awful. It felt like it was something they decided at the last minute and after doing all the hard work just said f it.

If I understand correctly it was something added rather late, because initially (I believe for both AOE2 and AOE4) the group stage was single elimination. Only after being told that was kind of crazy did they expand the group stage, thus adding more games and requiring the B stream.

I would think its a fair assumption, that things like renting out the castle were already planned at that time. So as critical as I am of the whole viewer experience that the B stream required, it probably did come down to a binary decision, either the tournaments be kept at single elimination, or we have the B stream. Personally given that choice I am glad we had the B stream, however, I do of course wish that the initial planning had also been better and allowed for proper group stages for both games, and/or that there were separate tournaments for each game both with a full timeline.

 

[aromatic]

Careful guys, complain about the B-stream too much then the tournament organizers might pull a "uno reverse card" on us and make it single-elimination in the future.
I would take a B-stream anyday compared to single-elimination.

 

[Progeusz]

If I understand correctly it was something added rather late, because initially (I believe for both AOE2 and AOE4) the group stage was single elimination. Only after being told that was kind of crazy did they expand the group stage, thus adding more games and requiring the B stream.

I would think its a fair assumption, that things like renting out the castle were already planned at that time. So as critical as I am of the whole viewer experience that the B stream required, it probably did come down to a binary decision, either the tournaments be kept at single elimination, or we have the B stream. Personally given that choice I am glad we had the B stream, however, I do of course wish that the initial planning had also been better and allowed for proper group stages for both games, and/or that there were separate tournaments for each game both with a full timeline.

Thanks for shining light upon the mystery. Yeah, sounds like initial planning was a failure and only some time later they realized how much they messed up and tried to amend at least part of the mistakes. However, end result is still worse than any previous Red Bull if my memory serves well. I re-checked IV and V the other day, they both had better match coverage than L.

What we got here is basically the common modern tactic
Take something good -> remove large chunk of basic features -> last minute partially restore removed features in bad shape while making core features worse -> consoomers start praising the company "because they got something extra".

 

[The Bloodless]

Thanks for shining light upon the mystery. Yeah, sounds like initial planning was a failure and only some time later they realized how much they messed up and tried to amend at least part of the mistakes. However, end result is still worse than any previous Red Bull if my memory serves well. I re-checked IV and V the other day, they both had better match coverage than L.

What we got here is basically the common modern tactic
Take something good -> remove large chunk of basic features -> last minute partially restore removed features in bad shape while making core features worse -> consoomers start praising the company "because they got something extra".

Biggest straw man I've ever seen. Congratulations

 

[Progeusz]

Biggest straw man I've ever seen. Congratulations

You have no idea what strawman means.

 

[akku]

All this most likely stemmed from their decision to have single elimination to fit in both games, which eventually got changed since they realized single elimination was crap.

Simpliest solution for the future is to just have separate events really.

If RB wants to do aoe tournaments in future for both 2 and 4, I hope they can do something like aoe2 sometime in first half of the year, aoe4 sometime in last half of the year (or vice versa, order doesn't matter).
Just split the whole thing already!!

 

[Progeusz]

If RB wants to do aoe tournaments in future for both 2 and 4, I hope they can do something like aoe2 sometime in first half of the year, aoe4 sometime in last half of the year (or vice versa, order doesn't matter).
Just split the whole thing already!!

This would also solve the big issue Viper and Capoch (and to lesser extent, other players) faced - having to choose which game to prepare for, as you simply can't prepare for two at once, it messes too much with your habits/muscle memory. If tournaments were split, players would be able to allocate specific amount of time to prepare for aoe2 and at different stage of the year prepare for aoe4, making sure they can be in shape for both. We already know tournament coordinators are set for entire Age of Empires franchise as a whole so it should be easy to space out biggest tournaments of both games.

 

[The Bloodless]

You have no idea what strawman means.

Well what do you call it when a person argues against a position that nobody supports? I call it straw man

In other words, nobody thinks that "the company" gave us something extra compared to a normal tournament with the B stream and more games of aoe2. But it was a return to the status quo, which is more than the original plan which wad shared with aoezone well in advance of the event. So it was a very good change to make. And it seemed to run as well as any aoe2 event. In fact, I believe it broke some records

 

[LowEloNobody]

If we think AoE2 deserves to be a top-tier esport, then B-streams will become more of the norm

 

[akku]

If we think AoE2 deserves to be a top-tier esport, then B-streams will become more of the norm

Depends on the number of games planned, right?

Not sure if you're familiar with Dota, but they had "B streams" only because each team in group stage played against every other team. So 56 series all around.

The number of series sets far lower in aoe2 RBW. The issue was the time constraints.

I'll just say that the way RBW5 was handled was the prefect way, minus the lags which weren't really in their control

 

[Rista]

Saw Nili yesterday saying he was advocating for BO5 single elimination while the players wanted BO3 double elimination. I'll take B stream and double elimination.