B-stream can't be at future events

[covaccino99]

B stream was ok as long as they didnt say "we" then talking about a particular player. "We can't harass woodlines" - about Daniel going Camel only against Lierrey. Of all the particular things casters say this is the worst.

 

[Tempires]

You can't compare current year and past years, since half of action is only available in B stream this year.

And the fact that Dave rejected doesn't change the fact Nili benefitted at max again, sounds like you are just trying to soften it.

I don't even care about AOE4 and don't know why do you bring it to discussion although I didn't mention it. That thing doesn't exist for me.

1.No comparison. I just told redbull's b stream was streaming something else(RB's mountain biking event) since you asked why b stream is on Nili's channel and possible implyfying it should/could have been on redbull's 2nd channel instead of caster's personal channel. RB wanted use established channel to attract viewers though.

2. again you asked why it was on nili's channel and I told it was originally decided to be dave's and also told why it was changed 2 weeks after handbook release with Dave's channel decied as b stream to Nili's. Not relevant?

3. Again you also asked why nili had b stream and i told EGCTV is b stream too in thread that is about b stream.

No need to turn everything to debate here when i answer your question although i decided not to care much on your last sentence

 

[TheMangledBadger]

Also, the pop ups of the score on the other bracket are ruining the score for people that want to watch the vod of the other stream, spoilers everywhere, production was much better last year imo

 

[Zeev]

B and even C streams are normal in big tournaments. CS:GO Rio major that starts next week will have B and C streams too. I like it this way, we get to the games that actually matter faster. We pretty much knew who were going to go through anyway.

And for people who complain about spoilers. They have to tell audience the schedule. They can't do that without telling what happened in other games.

 

[OrnLu528]

Just because people are paraphrasing what I said on stream, for the sake of clarity and transparency, I'll just post my experience with RBWL this year regarding the B-stream:

- Some of you may remember, but I was asked to host the B-stream for RBW5 last year alongside Lidakor. We only casted a few sets, but we were paid for our work to cast events on a neutral Redbull-affiliated stream. The B-stream only existed because they had to expand the player roster at the last minute and couldn't fit all the games on the main stream.

- This year, they have to squish the format so they can fit the AoE4 portion of the event, so they ended up with another last-minute B-stream. For various reasons, they chose Ellie to host the B-stream and go to the event next weekend to do interviews. Redbull asked me if I wanted to be Ellie's co-host. However, it would still be Ellie's show, they would use Dave's (at the time) stream as the official channel, and they said they didn't have the budget to pay me.

- Considering I got paid to host the stream last year, as well as the massive budget for the event in general, I found these terms unacceptable so I respectfully declined.

- On a personal level, I don't really care about getting paid so much as getting to go to the event, being a part of the production, and getting to see all of my AoE2 friends again. At the very least, if they weren't going to fly me out (or pay me enough so that I could just buy my own way to Heidelberg), then I would expect to be in charge of the B-stream, and have the official channel be my own personal channel alongside Ellie's or whoever else I was casting with. (If they weren't using a "neutral" channel)

It's entirely Redbull's decision as to who they hire, for how much, and any other benefits. It's just unfortunate that we couldn't reach an agreement that would involve me in the production. Regarding Ellie, this is a great opportunity for her, and especially as this is her first "S-tier" casting gig, people should really remember that she is just doing her best. She's a great person, and I don't begrudge her at all the opportunity. Survivalist as well - if he is fine with whatever RB offered him, then that is their decision.

I just hope that things go a bit smoother with the format and scheduling next year, and that hopefully I would get to be a part of a future Redbull Wololo.... that way I wouldn't need to wake up at 6am to cast for 9 hours straight KAPPA

 

[kalpit00]

@OrnLu528 absolutely agree with your decision. If they aren't paying you anything, you aren't obliged to show up at 6am EST and cast 8-9 hours like it is in the B stream as a "co-host", especially when you are such a well known caster and probably up there right after the quartet of T90DaveMembNili. At the end of day, Redbull is a company and business is their #1 priority (hence the larger prizepool for aoeIV vs aoe2, all which will be clear soon in the coming week.)

If anything they are treating you undeservedly, so at the end of the day, its their loss (which I am sure 99% of us will unwillingly agree considering the somewhat "disaster" of the B-stream, no matter how good Ellie and Survivalist are, its very rushed and unprofessional and lackluster in terms of quality)

 

[kshotts1]

The biggest mistake Redbull made this tournament was condensing aoe2 for the sake of aoe4 to the point that a B stream was heavily required in the group stage and that the deciders had to be a BO3 in order to save time.

Their second biggest mistake was not making Ornlu the main host of the B stream.

With that said, it’s still been an overall amazing tournament thus far.

 

[Lokalo]

The biggest mistake Redbull made this tournament was condensing aoe2 for the sake of aoe4 to the point that a B stream was heavily required in the group stage and that the deciders had to be a BO3 in order to save time.

Their second biggest mistake was not making Ornlu the main host of the B stream.

With that said, it’s still been an overall amazing tournament thus far.

Well I kind of agree and disagree. I agree Ornlu would have done better job than Ellie, however let's be real for a moment, channel B was just left out to do on their own. I mean no matter who would have casted it, sure it would have better quality if let's say Memb and Nili would have casted on channel B than it had. But you can't compete with quality where tons of production and camera people and who knows who else doing their job, like Mappu and so on. Like on channel A there 20 people work, for camera, for drafting, for interviews, showing tables and messages on the screen. Then we had channel B which didn't have a single thing, so in the end most people would watch channel A anyways.

I mean there are tons of things which could have been changed. First thing and most important for viewer experience probably(well I guess arguably) is game follow, by which I mean camera/screen moving what Mappu does on channel A. I like Survivalist, but he often has issues with capture age for some reason, so I guess it wasn't really an option for him to do it, but 2k+ player moving camera would have been much better and would miss less key moments. For example that Capoch raid with 20 xbow on Daut's eco, which Ellie completely missed. I'm not sure if that's truth, but someone said she is 1.1k, you just can't expect 1.1k player follow the game as good as 2k, that is just impossible, there are tons of things why 1.1k is 1.1k.

It honestly really surprises me, that RB/MS spent so much money into this and couldn't offer even some compensation for casting on channel B? Idk it just makes no sense.

However do not get me wrong, I'm really hyped and waiting today's games to start, there all sets can be bangers today and there are all on main channel now, everything will be great, but that channel B thing could have handled bit better. At least to include some stuff like interviews post game there.

 

[Chainsaw]

Thanks for clearing the air @OrnLu528 You have always had my respect, since you were streaming with 14ish viewers. Very calm, composed and knowledgeable as a caster. Obviously you don't need my approval, but I am happy you stuck with your dignity on this one. I really hope as well that your time will come, sooner than later; we are lucky to have you in this community.

As for the B-stream, I don't doubt the casters/hosts are doing the best with what they have. And while the B-stream is better than what Redbull originally wanted to do, it is a far cry from doing its prizemoney justice. I'm not talking about the casters here, but the fact that we have the cream of the crop of aoe2 and their fate is decided so swiftly. I wouldn't say the format is brutal as much as it is rushed. It's a huge opportunity wasted, but hey, beggars can't be choosers.

 

[Tempires]

The biggest mistake Redbull made this tournament was condensing aoe2 for the sake of aoe4 to the point that a B stream was heavily required in the group stage and that the deciders had to be a BO3 in order to save time.

There is no games played on 24th or 25th in any game so they still could have played all or most B-stream games on main stream with current format if they sacrifieced sunday quarterfinals.

 

[oozkan]

This year, they have to squish the format so they can fit the AoE4 portion of the event, so they ended up with another last-minute B-stream.

The things we have to endure because of AOE4...

 

[Black Adder]

Multi-hundred-thousand-dollar event, no compensation for being official streamer, and forced to be on a random other channel of someone else directly benefiting from all of that. What an offer! Great to see nothing is changing in the money ways in this community :d

(Even if you consider it's probably because the budget was spent (you really don't have a thousand extra after all this?) and they weren't planning on B-streams in the first place due to mismanaging the tournament format, the fact you won't even allow them to cast on their own channel, which would often be payment enough (tbh it shouldn't be really for this level of event and prize pool and everything, it's abuse of good will whatever way you look at it), is ridiculous... With everyone, including those "official" B channels just restreaming feed without any real production as A stream, it's even more dumbfounding and telling.)

 

[robb]

I briefly tuned in on the B channel but I quickly tuned out away again. The change in production quality compared to the A channel was too big, felt like a homebrew stream rather than a big tournament stream. Also getting random ads during tense moments in the game is a big turn off. I don´t know who the woman was but I felt she was just there because she has an Instagram with mostly half naked pictures.

I´d have loved to see some of the matchups but I just couldn´t. Sucks AoE4 has to take up space when it should´ve just had it´s own event instead and not leech off Wololo´s success.

 

[vesnoimorskoi]

I mean if they already were going for B-stream thing and half of the matches played somewhere behind, they could make it round robin or something giving more matches per player

 

[SouFire]

I guess the payment for the B stream were the viewers traffic generating money by flooding them with ads every 10 minutes or forcing subscriptions to avoid them.

The idea of B stream wasn't good and not because the host or casters but because those games were missing cameras, interviews and the appearance on the big channel, honestly if half of the games were going to be played like that then why making it a LAN event. If they ever attempt to repeat the same they should add more production for the alternative stream and some sort of budget to compensate the casters.

Aoe4 and their toxic marketing ruined the viewers experience for aoe2 by giving them half the games they should have watched, i hope aoe4 hit 3k max viewers peak during all the week.

 

[winterbike]

The biggest mistake Redbull made this tournament was aoe4

Totally agree

 

[oozkan]

I don´t know who the woman was but I felt she was just there because she has an Instagram with mostly half naked pictures.

Haha you don't know her, but checked her instagram profile already. Man of culture, culture of 2020s.

 

[robb]

Haha you don't know her, but checked her instagram profile already. Man of culture, culture of 2020s.

It's the first link on her info page.

 

[MongolTCRush]

This is the first time I've watched Aoe2, is ellie4k the best caster Aoe2 has to offer outside of the 'big 4' who were flown to Heidelberg? Or was Redbull actually trying to cash in on her 'semi-appropriate' attire (to put it the most politically correct way I can think of) on her social media platforms bringing in a lot of viewers?

Everyone deserves a chance if they are passionate about casting, and I understand she's new/this is her first big cast so no insults towards her ability.. but what was the motivation on redbulls behalf for it to be 'her show'? Is there literally no one else even close to the level of the top 4 in Heidelberg?

 

[_Donatello_]

It's the first link on her info page.

lol I checked her site now

"AOE Goals:
• 12xx on the ladder
• learn m@a build"

Second goal should take 30 minut practice so gl to her

I don't think she was as bad as some others (ofc compare to A stream it was down several lvls) but really annoying with the comercial on b stream, made me turn it off after the first comercial, worked on Survivalist stream, but other B streams I checked had way to much comercials, I understand they want to make some money, but should put it between games not during the action

 

[harooooo]

This is the first time I've watched Aoe2, is ellie4k the best caster Aoe2 has to offer outside of the 'big 4' who were flown to Heidelberg? Or was Redbull actually trying to cash in on her 'semi-appropriate' attire (to put it the most politically correct way I can think of) on her social media platforms bringing in a lot of viewers?

Everyone deserves a chance if they are passionate about casting, and I understand she's new/this is her first big cast so no insults towards her ability.. but what was the motivation on redbulls behalf for it to be 'her show'? Is there literally no one else even close to the level of the top 4 in Heidelberg?

Its probably cos they already hired her to be an interviewer for next week, so since she is already gonna get paid for that it's easier to have her cast.

While on the other hand Ornlu and Survivalist (and maybe some others we dont know yet) were offered to cast from home with no compensation at all. And afaik they were only offered to be cocasters.

 

[IYIyTh]

The lack of parity in access for AOE2 is nothing new. Volunteering in exchange for access is older than AOE2 and perhaps time itself. It's evidenced in your daily twitch streams -- from streamers, moderators, and tournament administrators. It is embedded in AOE2's culture. Something that has worked very well for it in the past when there was little compensation for one's efforts, but has been changing, even if modestly. For some it likely started as a hobby, but with both streamers and a handful of players have begun hovering on "full-time," status, the amateur nature of our game and its capitalization has evolved.

Now that there is more compensation available, the access model must also evolve to better suit both the community and its participants.

I propose that aoe2's culture must change if the community is to continue to grow.

Some of that change will need to come from major sponsors in how they decide access, but most importantly -- it will need to come from average community members and viewers in elevating alternative options to the forefront.

 

[Sextilidan]

I don't think she was as bad as some others (ofc compare to A stream it was down several lvls) but really annoying with the comercial on b stream, made me turn it off after the first comercial, worked on Survivalist stream, but other B streams I checked had way to much comercials, I understand they want to make some money, but should put it between games not during the action

Isn't that just the new Twitch forcing a minimum minutes of ads per hours of stream?

 

[Hunyadi_]

I can't really blame RB taking a risk on AoE4. In their eyes it was the shiny new Age of Empires product and they wanted to capitalize on the potential hype.

I'd be curious to see which game will get more viewers. That should tell the whole story.

 

[Lightysword]

I can't really blame RB taking a risk on AoE4. In their eyes it was the shiny new Age of Empires product and they wanted to capitalize on the potential hype.

I'd be curious to see which game will get more viewers. That should tell the whole story.

Judging from the last S tier event in AOE 4 I can't really imagine it surpassing Age 2 numbers, but we'll see. The group stage even is not comparable cause its week days vs. weekend.