AoE4 biggest mistake

[IRC_tomate]

No they didn't.

AoE4 is the composition where all the decisions who met the least resistance was allowed through the gates and into the final product. And the choice to make it 3d rather then 2d works as a great symbolic expression of this problem.

Therefore AoE4 is a completely average and largely uninteresting game. It seems to me there was no visionary capable of driving the sometimes bold and necessary decisions through in order to make an actually great game.


This is just a classic display of how large corporations play the game of trying to not fail (as the people involved don't want to be the one responsible for anything including risk), so the end result is just dull.

So the next step is more of these awkward and tiresome attempts at promoting where someone will sell their soul pretending it's actually all cool and exciting. Because you just have to get into this sweetspot frame of mind and ignore those intrusive thoughts of how you feel like a 5 year old kid moving your stuff around.
And of course, its the "you just have to get used to it" or whatever. This dance will probably contaminate the aoe2 scene for 6 months or even more, but it's all just a reminder of the failure aoe4 is.


And the biggest failure of aoe4 is not how bad it is. It's how good it could have been.

Because this was the opportunity to introduce the age franchise into the big stage as an esport; and the scale of the project would attract many more talents I'm sure.

And I'll say it again as I said before; the future of gaming is not the people playing, it's the people watching.

Yes they did.

Wall of text explaining why my personal opinion about AOE IV is a financial failure.

@buddy__1 if you only liked the II and disliked other games of the franchise then AOE IV is not for you, luckily for us, AOE II has not never been in a better spot than today, let's queue some ladder.

 

[IRC_tomate]

I don't think its a coincidence that RTS 'died' as a genre when all these franchises moved from 2d to 3d, and the games become regarded as and more and more mediocre.

Are you calling Starcraft II a mediocre game? oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy
Casually it launch coincides with the born of esports (the golden era or RTS, yeaaaah, commercially speaking at least)

Why do you think a "new born gamer" prefers to play fornite rather than AOE II?

 

[Snizl]

Why do you think a "new born gamer" prefers to play fornite rather than AOE II?

1. Its free
2. It is easy to pick up and play without having to read any guide
3. You get instant dopamine with every kill and don't need to win the game before feeling good about yourself.

 

[ponciliano]

Hope Microsoft didn't design the game with the intention of it being an actual successor of AoE II. Because they clearly didn't design the game around it being an Esports. They didn't design it around playerbase's expectations apparently, but instead made something that simply mixes aoe 3 and 2. I don't see it surpassing AoE II ever.

I'd say not having this vision was the biggest mistake, that causes all the subsequent mistakes we're seeing.

 

[green eggs]

It’s nice to see you guys aren’t jumping to conclusions yet.

 

[_Donatello_]

11 I know, its like people just want aoe2 and when its not exactly like that its trash

I playtested for about two hours and think game got good potential. If we get more options to edit hotkeys, zoom more out, it comes mods like small trees/clearer minimap/reduse waypoints etc. I think it will be a nice new rts game to learn.
I wont buy at launch because I think in current state it wont be so fun, but after maybe 3-6 months of updates or onger it can be really good

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

I gave Aoe4 a try and here are my thoughts

This has to be the greatest game ever created, I honestly never had a pleasure to spend time playing anything better than this. Witcher 3, Rdr2, GTA 5 - none of that comes close to the experience of playing the new Aoe. If I had to compare the game to other franchise's offerts, I would definitely put Aoe4 above aoe2, not quite as good as the 3rd part but comes really close.

 

[ponciliano]

It’s nice to see you guys aren’t jumping to conclusions yet.

Yeah blame the playerbase, not the developers. Certainly it's the developers that make a game popular, not the playerbase. It doesn't matter if people don't want to play the game.

 

[lecracheursagacite]

Wintergaming is currently streaming a lot of AOE4 (he's a SC2 pro), and I must say it's kinda interesting to listen to him regarding all the issues: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1153843629?t=5h52m10s (Here only UI, but all streams are insightful).

@JoshuaR Isn't this the guy you said ragequit DE in the middle of a stream because he was fed up with TG not working?

Are you calling Starcraft II a mediocre game? oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy
Casually it launch coincides with the born of esports (the golden era or RTS, yeaaaah, commercially speaking at least)

Why do you think a "new born gamer" prefers to play fornite rather than AOE II?

StarCraft II plays like it is 2D.

 

[Oli King]

Wintergaming is currently streaming a lot of AOE4 (he's a SC2 pro), and I must say it's kinda interesting to listen to him regarding all the issues: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1153843629?t=5h52m10s (Here only UI, but all streams are insightful).

Thanks for that. I watched a little bit of his stream but haven't seen this part and it's great. He's very much on point with his observations and balanced opinion even though he's obviously not happy.

 

[lecracheursagacite]

Thanks for that. I watched a little bit of his stream but haven't seen this part and it's great. He's very much on point with his observations and balanced opinion even though he's obviously not happy.

"it seems like all the things that make an RTS streamlined, or have any sort of depth, have been cut away in favor of a graphic design intern's impression about what people want to see on the next Powerpoint...like there's a lot of cool colors, there's a very 'modern' look to the UI, and almost no substance"

He does have a knack for it, that can't be denied.

 

[lfdm]

"it seems like all the things that make an RTS streamlined, or have any sort of depth, have been cut away in favor of a graphic design intern's impression about what people want to see on the next Powerpoint...like there's a lot of cool colors, there's a very 'modern' look to the UI, and almost no substance"

He does have a knack for it, that can't be denied.

I think he made a lot of good points in the video. I wasn't able to play the beta, but from what I was able to see so far, the game really seems to be ill-fitted for competitive play. Might be a fun game in itself, just not an e-sport.
I don't want to go into full conspiracy theory mode, but it makes me wonder if there was deliberation behind the decision to put the open beta at the same date as RBW5.
There's a lot of content and talk about AoE4 out now - but practically none of it comes from the top of AoE2's competitive scene. So far they never got a chance to make real comments about the game. Is the AoE4 team trying to avoid this?
It really feels like the AoE2 pros are put in an awkward spot here - it's also their livelihood which is on the line, hence they have no incentive to be overly critical about AoE4, which will be heavily pushed by MS going foward. But I have a hard time believing that they are going to enjoy AoE4 though, given that its focus seems to be so focused on non-competitive play.

 

[Netherworld]

Spreezy made an excellent video talking about the game in general

 

[n0eL]

i can't believe all the people criticizing the fact its 3D. there would be much more negative feedback for a 2021 AAA game title in 2D.

 

[Snizl]

i can't believe all the people criticizing the fact its 3D. there would be much more negative feedback for a 2021 AAA game title in 2D.

Because it doesnt add anything to a game that is two dimensional gameplay wise, and makes it so much harder to look at and see whats going on.
But yeah, the amount of dimensions the art style is rendered in is less of a problem. The bigger problem is the size of everything and the art style in general. Had they taken AoE2 DE sprites and redered them as 3D models the game would look much better.

 

i can't believe all the people criticizing the fact its 3D. there would be much more negative feedback for a 2021 AAA game title in 2D.

You can do 3D games with 2D-like isometric view: e.g. Starcraft 2.

I still think they should at least give the option to play the game in isometric view in AoE4. In general I watched some AoE4 streams this weekend and besides all the feedback that is already in this thread and others: It's really not that fun to watch for me, neither the POV of players nor the relatively badly designed spectating interface - in competitive play.

And this is where I think AoE4 is not designed with a competitive aspect in mind. The campaigns will be probably really beautiful and nice. And that's also where to biggest amount of the players is. I do think though, that they might be able to make changes to the game to give it some Esports potential. For example `isometric` view could come easily with an update, as they want to do modding and all the other things (IF they do that after a hopefully not failed release) in April 2022.

 

[oozkan]

i can't believe all the people criticizing the fact its 3D. there would be much more negative feedback for a 2021 AAA game title in 2D.

AAA game? Only its price is AAA.

 

[lecracheursagacite]

I think he made a lot of good points in the video. I wasn't able to play the beta, but from what I was able to see so far, the game really seems to be ill-fitted for competitive play. Might be a fun game in itself, just not an e-sport.
I don't want to go into full conspiracy theory mode, but it makes me wonder if there was deliberation behind the decision to put the open beta at the same date as RBW5.
There's a lot of content and talk about AoE4 out now - but practically none of it comes from the top of AoE2's competitive scene. So far they never got a chance to make real comments about the game. Is the AoE4 team trying to avoid this?
It really feels like the AoE2 pros are put in an awkward spot here - it's also their livelihood which is on the line, hence they have no incentive to be overly critical about AoE4, which will be heavily pushed by MS going foward. But I have a hard time believing that they are going to enjoy AoE4 though, given that its focus seems to be so focused on non-competitive play.

Yeah a tough spot for sure. I remember when Viper was on Mixer he had something in his description saying he was looking to get into AoE4 when it came out. I wonder how he is feeling about that now.

 

[_187_]

Which game do you like to play?
And which one do you like to spectate?

 

[oozkan]

View attachment 196505
Which game do you like to play?
And which one do you like to spectate?

You forgot the fact that on the right one, rooks move diagonally, while bishops embrace L form. And knights, do not exist.

 

[Tempires]

Spreezy made an excellent video talking about the game in general

wintergaming made much better video about aoe4. this one is just rant. like major issues aren't even about the game(just look at 1-7 and you are ready to dislike and leave) and some things are not even true making it look like he hasn't even played the game.

 

[IRC_tomate]

Sorry guys but AoE IVs biggest mistake right now is to not include liereey and mbl. Maybe in the next DLC? POGGERS

 

[SouFire]

Sorry guys but AoE IVs biggest mistake right now is to not include liereey and mbl. Maybe in the next DLC? POGGERS

I think both lierey and mbl are going to smash everyone else in kotd4 cause they haven't contaminated their brain with something different, this is going to be the easiest prediction ever.

 

[Memeluke]

who cares about kotd4, dead game

 

[MaSmOrRa]

View attachment 196505
Which game do you like to play?
And which one do you like to spectate?

Trolling aside, what are the pro's and con's of going with this type of camera angle in AoE 4?