AoE4 biggest mistake

[filifow]

Maybe it's fun to play idk, but it's difficult to watch for me. Same as with Aoe3, might have been a good game conceptually but I never got to appreciate it because of the distorted 3d view. I don't know the technical terms so maybe it's not 3d itself.
But they had to test it with people so I guess there is more of them that like it.

 

[Tendo]

I think it's way too early to discuss what the "biggest mistake" of aoe4 is.
We only got the Beta yet, of course they won't change too much in this 1 month till the release in terms of graphics and so on, but there's proly still a lot we haven't seen yet.

Before aoe2 DE came out evryone was judging the game aswell and said it would be a huge fail, turns out it wasn't that bad and especially in case of the graphics ppl seem to be fine with it now.

Also some of the biggest mistakes in aoe2 DE were nothing we could realize before the game came out (TG-Queue Dodgers, evry Update creating tons of bugs) so let's see maybe there's way worse to discover after release.

 

[Aadulf]

I think it's way too early to discuss what the "biggest mistake" of aoe4 is.
We only got the Beta yet, of course they won't change too much in this 1 month till the release in terms of graphics and so on, but there's proly still a lot we haven't seen yet.

Before aoe2 DE came out evryone was judging the game aswell and said it would be a huge fail, turns out it wasn't that bad and especially in case of the graphics ppl seem to be fine with it now.

Also some of the biggest mistakes in aoe2 DE were nothing we could realize before the game came out (TG-Queue Dodgers, evry Update creating tons of bugs) so let's see maybe there's way worse to discover after release.

Difference here is, that AoE2:DE was based on highly succesful game, whereas AoE4 seems very similar to AoE3, which was a total flop. I played it for few games yesterday and was not impressed at all. And I can tell after playing a game for couple hours that am I going to like it or not (and I have played and liked a lot of other RTS-games, not just AoE2). This game didn't impress me at all.

 

[Tendo]

Difference here is, that AoE2:DE was based on highly succesful game, whereas AoE4 seems very similar to AoE3, which was a total flop.

Disagree.
In terms of graphics it might resemble more to aoe3, but except that it's way closer to AoE2 imo.
Also some of the features might have been in aoe3 and not in aoe2, but originally they came from AoM instead which was also a popular game (I still hope we will get an AoM DE).
F.e the age up system were you have to chose between 2 options or buffing your buildings/units.

There are no treasures no shipments and especially no card decks in AoE4, also stone and relics are back on the menu.
So even though I don't count AoE3 as a flop (I liked it, the game was just not suited for competitive play but a great game for single player / casually playing with friends) I see AoE4 way closer to AoE2.

 

[Bowserlord]

game is just awesome, makes super fun to play, plays super smooth and fast, more like sc2 fast paced!
After 5-10games the game really kicks in and u are addicted. Cant wait for release!

 

[JFK]

It looks so weird.
The devs chose a middle age settings for the game - but it doesnt look anything like the middle ages.
If anything, it looks like starcraft.
If you click somewhere with a unit, light effects appear on the map that look like a UFO landing place.
A weird lightning bolt appears from the sky, sent by Zeus, combined with strange waypoints that remind you of a GPS.
The menu looks like you are about to play Anno 2070 - or maybe even a shooter.
Give the game a different name, please. It is not an AoE. It lacks any of its style, even compared to Aoe3.

 

[Hunyadi_]

To me it seems like AoE3 in the AoE2 timeframe. I'm sure it's got its own unique mechanics but that's my first impression. Also in Canada it costs $80, that's a lot of money for a game like that. I think I'll just wait for a sale.

 

[Static]

I haven't played it myself but if there were 6 months until launch I would be okay with this beta. I honestly hope they can delay the launch and release a more or less finished product.

 

[IRC_tomate]

i honestly expected such a comment. Why cant a game build up on the previous games of the series? Why is there the need to reinvent the wheel only to make very few happy? Just a joke and user unfriendly. Your point of view is an example of someone who always hated the score and think that every litte information you dont scout is cheating. Hillarious.

If you think that devs are trying to reinvent the wheel with AOE IV... They just took what it's best from every instalment.

I would never remove score from AOE II. I don't think it's cheating. I even praise the ability to spot strategies by score variances. I think the no score (for players POV) in AOE IV can make the gameplay better. Nothing is written on stone.

I was trying to make a point about what means changing in general. I feel like I touched a sensitive issue there. Anyways, the score thing won't decide the competitive success of the game (and probably you won't decide switching over AOE IV upon that matter).

 

[buddy__1]

If you think that devs are trying to reinvent the wheel with AOE IV... They just took what it's best from every instalment.

No they didn't.

AoE4 is the composition where all the decisions who met the least resistance was allowed through the gates and into the final product. And the choice to make it 3d rather then 2d works as a great symbolic expression of this problem.

Therefore AoE4 is a completely average and largely uninteresting game. It seems to me there was no visionary capable of driving the sometimes bold and necessary decisions through in order to make an actually great game.


This is just a classic display of how large corporations play the game of trying to not fail (as the people involved don't want to be the one responsible for anything including risk), so the end result is just dull.

So the next step is more of these awkward and tiresome attempts at promoting where someone will sell their soul pretending it's actually all cool and exciting. Because you just have to get into this sweetspot frame of mind and ignore those intrusive thoughts of how you feel like a 5 year old kid moving your stuff around.
And of course, its the "you just have to get used to it" or whatever. This dance will probably contaminate the aoe2 scene for 6 months or even more, but it's all just a reminder of the failure aoe4 is.


And the biggest failure of aoe4 is not how bad it is. It's how good it could have been.

Because this was the opportunity to introduce the age franchise into the big stage as an esport; and the scale of the project would attract many more talents I'm sure.

And I'll say it again as I said before; the future of gaming is not the people playing, it's the people watching.

 

[oozkan]

Played it during testing and also watched it today. Here are my feelings:

Playing is better than watching. This game is not castable. while you play you keep change your screen, focus on your units, resources etc. so you don't feel that clumsy look. But when you see someone playing it, damn it looks horrible.

 

[Netherworld]

It looks so weird.
The devs chose a middle age settings for the game - but it doesnt look anything like the middle ages.
If anything, it looks like starcraft.
If you click somewhere with a unit, light effects appear on the map that look like a UFO landing place.
A weird lightning bolt appears from the sky, sent by Zeus, combined with strange waypoints that remind you of a GPS.
The menu looks like you are about to play Anno 2070 - or maybe even a shooter.
Give the game a different name, please. It is not an AoE. It lacks any of its style, even compared to Aoe3.

First time poster here.

You're on the spot! My main gripe with the game is the fact that the UI looks way too modern. Give me a more aoe2 oriented UI and darker colors and at least art style wise, we got a middle ages game.

EDIT: Also, I really hope that Aoe2:de continues to be supported, as I just rediscovered the game in 2020 and it would be a shame if it were to be neglected in favor of aoe4 within a year of discovering it.

 

[Spawn]

I don't even care about the UI looking to modern which i agree on however my main issue is the ui is terribly in terms of function its just horrible to play with

 

[HongeyKong]

I havent tried the game, but from what ive seen in videos, imo the biggest mistake is the angle / perspective, the further the objects the smaller they are. Even when zoomed out, the camera angle still seems fairly low, its super hard to control units like that by the looks of it.

Not sure if that can be changed in settings tho

 

[Halleju]

For me it still looks like a better mobile game with aoe 3 graphics and some aoe 2 mechanics. Those collapsing physics for example look like collapsing lego buildings...Might be fun for single player as aoe3 was but I can't see a successful competitive multiplayer game. For that aoe4 resembles too much of aoe3 with all its faults. And from what I've seen so far asking the prize of a AAA game is very bold... sure enough people will buy it on hype release but will the competitive streamers stick to it after the1-2 weeks of hype? I highly doubt it.

 

[b1gwalt]

First time poster here.

You're on the spot! My main gripe with the game is the fact that the UI looks way too modern. Give me a more aoe2 oriented UI and darker colors and at least art style wise, we got a middle ages game.

EDIT: Also, I really hope that Aoe2:de continues to be supported, as I just rediscovered the game in 2020 and it would be a shame if it were to be neglected in favor of aoe4 within a year of discovering it.

I would not worry too much about AoE2:DE. After playing in the beta and stress test, and judging by the community hive mind/twitch chats, the AoE2 community is generally not too amazed by AoE4. Remember that people have been playing this game for 20 years, so it is going to take something pretty serious to stop that from happening.

I imagine that AoE4 is more targeted towards campaign players and more casual players who like building pretty bases and large armies. Nothing wrong with that but it does feel like a bit of a different game. Arrows 100% accurate so you can't micro, no quick walls, forced hotkeys, etc. The map is 3D and lets you rotate so you can take an awesome screenshot to use as a wallpaper. I think that's more what it's about.

For that reason I expect there will still be a large contingent of people playing DE after the release of AoE4 and the game will not die.

 

[Netherworld]

I would not worry too much about AoE2:DE. After playing in the beta and stress test, and judging by the community hive mind/twitch chats, the AoE2 community is generally not too amazed by AoE4. Remember that people have been playing this game for 20 years, so it is going to take something pretty serious to stop that from happening.

I imagine that AoE4 is more targeted towards campaign players and more casual players who like building pretty bases and large armies. Nothing wrong with that but it does feel like a bit of a different game. Arrows 100% accurate so you can't micro, no quick walls, forced hotkeys, etc. The map is 3D and lets you rotate so you can take an awesome screenshot to use as a wallpaper. I think that's more what it's about.

For that reason I expect there will still be a large contingent of people playing DE after the release of AoE4 and the game will not die.

I can see where you're coming from. However, I'm more talking about *official* Support by Microsoft. Currently I have the feeling that MS intends to replace Aoe2 with Aoe4, as it is in the same time period and it will remain to seen how much they will force down Aoe4 people's throats.

What would make Aoe2 immortal (more than it is already) would be making the base game (excluding the expansion civs) for free, charging normal prices for the expansion civs and developing and introducting unique unit skins including micro transactions. This way you have a free game with an addicting core gameplay loop, established comp scene with tournaments that has little to no hardware requirements. This is the formula of success game like CS:GO, Dota2, LoL, R6S and more have implemented.

Keeping Aoe2 as the iconic core experience with Aoe4 and beyond to show franchise development for a more "casual" (i hate this word, but you know what i mean) and novel audience that is more interesed in the visual representation of history that Aoe has always been a part of would be perfect imo.

 

[Snizl]

Yeah AoE4 looks just weird. It's honestly hard for me to look at. I don't mind the UI in general, the menu definitely works better than in AoE2.
However, they didn't even bother with creating proper icons for units and techs? it's all just super stylized non recognizable icons. I can't even see if I am having the first or second armor upgrade for example.
Descriptions of what things do, or how they work are pretty absent. I have no clue what the yellow area around a mill does for example or where to find any explanation.
I do have the feeling that some of these areas of effect can lead to interesting variations in how you have to lay out your city and it might be a nice gameplay element.

The biggest issues that can be immediately spotted however are that the units feel non responsive, because they take actual time to turn, slow down and speed up and that arrows will always hit, no matter what. This is not only bad for gameplay, it also is bad for immersion. In AoE2 the arrow is an actual object. It will fly to a location and whatever is there at the end of its path will get hit. In AoE4 arrows dont exist. Once an archer attacks a target there is just a small time delay until that target receives damage. The arrow is not an object, its just an animation.

So overall it feels like AoE4 has even less micro than AoE2. It feels much more casual.
Now, one could say that this can be a good thing for a company. A casual game will attract more people. The easier a game is to get into, the better nowadays. But it still is an RTS game. RTS games are just not a popular genre anymore. They are by default hard to get into and having to do so many things on multiple screens is intimidating for many people. The only way an RTS game these days can be succesful, I believe, is through a competitive e-sport scene. So precisely what AoE2 does. Dumbing it down, making it harder to look at and see whats going on is not the way at all... I cant imagine this game succeeding at all.

 

[Tuunbaq]

Wintergaming is currently streaming a lot of AOE4 (he's a SC2 pro), and I must say it's kinda interesting to listen to him regarding all the issues: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1153843629?t=5h52m10s (Here only UI, but all streams are insightful).

 

[oozkan]

Here is my prediction for next 5 years:
2022: AOE4 sales number fails - Prize money for AOE2 events stops increasing
2023: Microsoft gradually removes support from AOE2 and AOE4 - Prize money for AOE2 events starts to decrease, no more MS share on prize pool - Couple of S-Tier tournaments thanks to sponsors who played game in past
2024: Prize money for AOE2 events decreases significantly - No S-Tier tournaments
2025: Back to 2012-2016 era. Lots of small tournaments, very low prize pools, players start retiring
2026: MS servers are down. Voobly like client built to keep DE alive.

 

[Tendo]

2026: MS servers are down. Voobly like client built to keep DE alive.

Aren't even the HD Servers still working?
I heavily daut that they will shut the DE servers down in the next 10 years.

 

[The_Philos]

Aren't even the HD Servers still working?
I heavily daut that they will shut the DE servers down in the next 10 years.

There are no servers for HD. It's still peer-to-peer.

 

[HongeyKong]

There are no servers for HD. It's still peer-to-peer.

You still need a server for lobbies.

 

[oozkan]

Aren't even the HD Servers still working?
I heavily daut that they will shut the DE servers down in the next 10 years.

Circumstances are changed, in 2026 there won't be a DE version or AOE5 to sell.

 

[SPICEQUEENOFSWAZILAND]

Its seems to be a common theme for 3d RTS games to look so similar aesthetically and play out with the same deficiencies and limitations. This game and the approach taken with it really reminds me of what Stronghold Crusader 2 attempted to do; reviving the franchise by imitating its most successful iteration but refusing to go back to isometric 2d.
Same building limitations and awkwardness, unaesthetic and languid animations and battles, same cartoony art style. Overall, in so many minor areas the games just take so many steps back. For example, I remember watching a BoA1 post-imperial game and from the top of the map to the bottom was just the decaying bodies of thousands of units, here they die and disappear within 5 seconds or even just poof out of existence. Its a small thing but its adds so much to the epicness and imersion, aoe4 post imperial battles don't look nearly as good and no one can tell me the destruction animations are anything close to those in aoe2 de. Again, its just one example but I could list a dozen more.

I don't think its a coincidence that RTS 'died' as a genre when all these franchises moved from 2d to 3d, and the games become regarded as and more and more mediocre. Not saying Aoe4 is going to 'fail' or is even a bad game (it might be), but I will never understand with all the resources, knowledge and money available to developers today that in so many areas and overall a 20 year old game is still superior.

Edit: also while I rant just want to bring up that the game priced at €60-70 doesn't even release with full features at launch, lacking things as basic as a scenario editor. https://www.aoezone.net/threads/aoe...dding-and-mp-global-queue-post-launch.177994/