What do you think of Streamers rerunning old VODS?

[Seahorsegallop]

As the title says, what do you think of "live" streamers running and in some cases re-running the same VOD just to clock up hours?

I find it very annoying, and I think it defeats the purpose of Twitch, they have YouTube for recordings, Twitch should only be for live broadcasts.

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

It is only being done because of Twitch policy change that requires certain amount of hours streamed in order to secure income.

Edit: I dont exactly know how it works, perhaps @MembTV , @Jordan_23 or @TheViper could explain.

 

[LidaKor]

So here is the story. Some time ago Twitch introduced regional pricing for subscriptions, meanin that countries where earnings are low don't have to pay $5,00 for a subscription. This is a great initiative, since subs are much more affordable in low income countries.

This sounds very cool until you realize that this suddenly means that - up until now - a streamer got about 2-2,5$ at maximum/sub, meaning his 100 subs would be worth $200-250 income, if all his subs were from low earning countries where the sub price went down to $2,5 lets say, he now is earning $100-125. This is a disaster for streamers, especially for those who make a fulltime living out of this.

To contain the damage, Twitch introduced a transition period. For a couple of months, they would compensate streamers for their lost income. The idea was that in those months new subscribers will appear (who can now afford subbing thanks to the cheaper price), so you would have more subs with smaller per sub revenue, overall resulting in about the same income. This compensation was widely promoted by Twitch to contain the situation, as many streamers who depended on their sub income now faced serious uncertainty).

However, (quite sneakily), after things calmed down Twitch added an extra thing to the compensation. You ONLY get compensated for the sub income lost if you stream a certain amount of hours in that month. And this amount is proportional to how much you streamed in the 1st May - July 31st time period. Meaning that if you streamed 100 hours on average/month in this period, you probably will have to do 100 hours this month to get compensated. But if you streamed A LOT (like Memb for example), you need to stream A LOT this month. Add it to the fact that it's summer and many people do holidays/etc. (=off from streaming for a lot of days) and will be off from streaming because of redbull, suddenly they either
a) stream the required amount in whatever form
b) lose a very serious portion of their twitch sub income

For reference, I was off for half of July, didn't stream a single minute for half a month,. I streamed a total of 29 hours that month, so my "streaming average" is quite a bit lower. I needed 46 hrs of stream in August to get compensated. Imagine how much time this is if someone streamed 3-4 hours a day for the entire period. Probably hunderds of hours, almost impossible humanly.

 

[archxeon]

As the title says, what do you think of "live" streamers running and in some cases re-running the same VOD just to clock up hours?

I find it very annoying, and I think it defeats the purpose of Twitch, they have YouTube for recordings, Twitch should only be for live broadcasts.

Even if they did with their own reasons, whats the harm if they let us know its not live? We can always choose not to watch it. TVs do reruns all the time. I watch Twitch VOD more than live these days. Whenever possible I watch live to interact with streamer and other users. Maybe you are just annoyed by it, because its not the norm. I don't think there is anything unethical or wrong with it.

 

[Seahorsegallop]

So here is the story. Some time ago Twitch introduced regional pricing for subscriptions, meanin that countries where earnings are low don't have to pay $5,00 for a subscription. This is a great initiative, since subs are much more affordable in low income countries.

This sounds very cool until you realize that this suddenly means that - up until now - a streamer got about 2-2,5$ at maximum/sub, meaning his 100 subs would be worth $200-250 income, if all his subs were from low earning countries where the sub price went down to $2,5 lets say, he now is earning $100-125. This is a disaster for streamers, especially for those who make a fulltime living out of this.

To contain the damage, Twitch introduced a transition period. For a couple of months, they would compensate streamers for their lost income. The idea was that in those months new subscribers will appear (who can now afford subbing thanks to the cheaper price), so you would have more subs with smaller per sub revenue, overall resulting in about the same income. This compensation was widely promoted by Twitch to contain the situation, as many streamers who depended on their sub income now faced serious uncertainty).

However, (quite sneakily), after things calmed down Twitch added an extra thing to the compensation. You ONLY get compensated for the sub income lost if you stream a certain amount of hours in that month. And this amount is proportional to how much you streamed in the 1st May - July 31st time period. Meaning that if you streamed 100 hours on average/month in this period, you probably will have to do 100 hours this month to get compensated. But if you streamed A LOT (like Memb for example), you need to stream A LOT this month. Add it to the fact that it's summer and many people do holidays/etc. (=off from streaming for a lot of days) and will be off from streaming because of redbull, suddenly they either
a) stream the required amount in whatever form
b) lose a very serious portion of their twitch sub income

For reference, I was off for half of July, didn't stream a single minute for half a month,. I streamed a total of 29 hours that month, so my "streaming average" is quite a bit lower. I needed 46 hrs of stream in August to get compensated. Imagine how much time this is if someone streamed 3-4 hours a day for the entire period. Probably hunderds of hours, almost impossible humanly.

Thanks LidaKor for the detailed replied, I was aware of the change to Twitch sub prices, but not to the draconian method of compensation applying over what's usually a holiday period. I guess that makes it more understandable, forgiveable. I Hope that it won't be a continuing issue in the future though.

 

[Black Adder]

Besides the current situation with the compensation which is a separate issue and creators are apparently not reading the rules that clearly state "Hours broadcast must be live (reruns do not count)," some (pretty much notably big/ger streamers on some big events) have done it even before, and it's strongly anti-community, because it effectively blocks other streamers even on the big streamer's off-hours, which is where they have the chance to grow, to be recognised, to get somewhere - so in other words they try to hog like the whole day even when they cannot be live, great, isn't it (I'm not necessarily saying they're doing it with that purpose, but the effect is there). There's going to be some logic like "but my viewers who couldn't make it live want to watch it and they'll have this cool chat and all!," but yeah, you're making the choice to screw the whole rest of the community for the benefit of a subset of your personal one, and let's not walk around the hot mash as we say in Czech, money is motivation as well, and let's not really walk around it at all, a major one, since it's, as I mentioned, usually happening around the big events with large viewerships where everyone involved fights for every penny.

While you could say if Twitch allows it and it's a feature it's fair game, which is certainly true, it just nicely shows if you actually care for the community at large or not, how much the omnipresent "I do this for the community" means from their mouths and some might want to specify which "community" they actually mean when they say that, because they might mean it in a certain way, but viewers might interpret it differently.

If you want to give benefit of the doubt, you can say some don't realise what effect this has on others, which is not far-fetched, not too many understand community connections intricacies, but let's not sugar-coat it much, shall we, we, and they, know what's at stake. Which is exactly why this is something game community management, if there were any, should handle, for the, you guessed it, benefit of the "community."

Luckily these re-runs are kind of rare in this community, so most people are either considerate enough, which is great, or they kind of haven't figured it out yet, but the trend is there, and I would be happy if it didn't escalate, because it does harm the community at large, especially at the stage, state and size we have.

 

So here is the story. Some time ago Twitch introduced regional pricing for subscriptions, meanin that countries where earnings are low don't have to pay $5,00 for a subscription. This is a great initiative, since subs are much more affordable in low income countries.

This sounds very cool until you realize that this suddenly means that - up until now - a streamer got about 2-2,5$ at maximum/sub, meaning his 100 subs would be worth $200-250 income, if all his subs were from low earning countries where the sub price went down to $2,5 lets say, he now is earning $100-125. This is a disaster for streamers, especially for those who make a fulltime living out of this.

To contain the damage, Twitch introduced a transition period. For a couple of months, they would compensate streamers for their lost income. The idea was that in those months new subscribers will appear (who can now afford subbing thanks to the cheaper price), so you would have more subs with smaller per sub revenue, overall resulting in about the same income. This compensation was widely promoted by Twitch to contain the situation, as many streamers who depended on their sub income now faced serious uncertainty).

However, (quite sneakily), after things calmed down Twitch added an extra thing to the compensation. You ONLY get compensated for the sub income lost if you stream a certain amount of hours in that month. And this amount is proportional to how much you streamed in the 1st May - July 31st time period. Meaning that if you streamed 100 hours on average/month in this period, you probably will have to do 100 hours this month to get compensated. But if you streamed A LOT (like Memb for example), you need to stream A LOT this month. Add it to the fact that it's summer and many people do holidays/etc. (=off from streaming for a lot of days) and will be off from streaming because of redbull, suddenly they either
a) stream the required amount in whatever form
b) lose a very serious portion of their twitch sub income

For reference, I was off for half of July, didn't stream a single minute for half a month,. I streamed a total of 29 hours that month, so my "streaming average" is quite a bit lower. I needed 46 hrs of stream in August to get compensated. Imagine how much time this is if someone streamed 3-4 hours a day for the entire period. Probably hunderds of hours, almost impossible humanly.

That's a really good summary!

 

[dodageka]

Are we talking about re-runs here or VODs being streamed as a “live” stream?

 

[Seahorsegallop]

Are we talking about re-runs here or VODs being streamed as a “live” stream?

I was referring to VODs being streamed, not re-runs

 

[LeoMontero]

i find it perfect, its like watching the simpsons old episodes. i already told memb that with the content that he has, he could do a 24x7 stream, and be live whenever he wants. like TV. Membflix.
if you dont like it, just dont watch it.

 

[SiegeEngine]

definitely fair game. ppl watchin reruns apparently dont have the mental capacity to find the video section on twitch..

Doesn't help that some twitch streamers make you pay or have to be a subscriber to watch old VODs too :/

 

[Black Adder]

I was referring to VODs being streamed, not re-runs

Seems I didn't even appreciate the depth of the topic - didn't occur to me someone in this community could go that low (I know it's done on Twitch, but I considered only desperates did that, as it's obviously wrong), as that's even cheating your own viewers (I know some will probably (hopefully) at least tell their viewers they're doing this and why, but nonetheless, not everyone will be reached, etc...). In the end it's not a different thing regarding the effect, just the added bonus of screwing not just with the community at large, but as said your own as well, because you're not even labeling it as what it is - a rerun. So these people that do it because of the compensation actually do read the rules, and are just straight cheats as they're trying to avoid the rerun limitation. How can anyone follow such people, or even support them?

However, (quite sneakily), after things calmed down Twitch added an extra thing to the compensation. You ONLY get compensated for the sub income lost if you stream a certain amount of hours in that month. And this amount is proportional to how much you streamed in the 1st May - July 31st time period. Meaning that if you streamed 100 hours on average/month in this period, you probably will have to do 100 hours this month to get compensated. But if you streamed A LOT (like Memb for example), you need to stream A LOT this month. Add it to the fact that it's summer and many people do holidays/etc. (=off from streaming for a lot of days) and will be off from streaming because of redbull, suddenly they either
a) stream the required amount in whatever form
b) lose a very serious portion of their twitch sub income

For reference, I was off for half of July, didn't stream a single minute for half a month,. I streamed a total of 29 hours that month, so my "streaming average" is quite a bit lower. I needed 46 hrs of stream in August to get compensated. Imagine how much time this is if someone streamed 3-4 hours a day for the entire period. Probably hunderds of hours, almost impossible humanly.

I believe this condition was there in the rules from the very beginning, as I remember it being talked about immediately, so nothing sneaky. Not disputing the summer timing is peculiar (though for some it's a problem, for some it's a bonus, I guess hard to find a proper time).

 

[Nicov]

I don't see the problem with vod streams. Sounds reasonable to prevent getting screwed by the new rules by twitch which I personally find terrible.

I would never bother watching one of those streams, but to each his own.

 

[phiupan]

As the title says, what do you think of "live" streamers running and in some cases re-running the same VOD just to clock up hours?

I find it very annoying, and I think it defeats the purpose of Twitch, they have YouTube for recordings, Twitch should only be for live broadcasts.

I think it their business and they should do whatever they want. If it is a bad decision they lose viewers by their own fault. If you don't like, you can just watch another thing.

 

[Helichaos]

Seems I didn't even appreciate the depth of the topic - didn't occur to me someone in this community could go that low (I know it's done on Twitch, but I considered only desperates did that, as it's obviously wrong), as that's even cheating your own viewers (I know some will probably (hopefully) at least tell their viewers they're doing this and why, but nonetheless, not everyone will be reached, etc...). In the end it's not a different thing regarding the effect, just the added bonus of screwing not just with the community at large, but as said your own as well, because you're not even labeling it as what it is - a rerun. So these people that do it because of the compensation actually do read the rules, and are just straight cheats as they're trying to avoid the rerun limitation. How can anyone follow such people, or even support them?



I believe this condition was there in the rules from the very beginning, as I remember it being talked about immediately, so nothing sneaky. Not disputing the summer timing is peculiar (though for some it's a problem, for some it's a bonus, I guess hard to find a proper time).

Every streamer that I've seen doing this has a command in their title which explains what they are doing and why.

I don't understand your outrage at this?

 

[SouFire]

I mean that movement from twitch was really bad and now they are losing big streamers to youtubes's gaming stuff, they are doing another mixer by buying influencers, so they have to go back and only apply the lower income to the subs that comes from countries with special cost, rather than treating everyone's the same.

Honestly running vods is such a waste of bandwidth and even energy.

 

[lecracheursagacite]

I mean that movement from twitch was really bad and now they are losing big streamers to youtubes's gaming stuff, they are doing another mixer by buying influencers, so they have to go back and only apply the lower income to the subs that comes from countries with special cost, rather than treating everyone's the same.

Honestly running vods is such a waste of bandwidth and even energy.

Is YouTube's gaming platform in a better condition than Mixer was? Microsoft getting Ninja just seemed like throwing a lot of money at a problem and hoping it got fixed so if YouTube is just doing the same it doesn't seem like it is a big long term problem for Twitch.

 

[MaSmOrRa]

Is YouTube's gaming platform in a better condition than Mixer was? Microsoft getting Ninja just seemed like throwing a lot of money at a problem and hoping it got fixed so if YouTube is just doing the same it doesn't seem like it is a big long term problem for Twitch.

If you're interested in this kind of stuff, I strongly suggest Devin Nash's youtube channel, specifically this video.

TL; DW: YouTube is in a much better condition than Mixer ever was. Their userbase is absolutely massive and they do a much better job than Twitch at suggesting their users streamers they actually want to watch, due to their powerful (yet still in development) algorithm.

 

[TheShaunPlays]

As has been mentioned, there are requirements twitch has when it comes to hours streamed. I have no issues with it as long as streamers make it clear in the title that it's a VOD.

I'm curious to know what impact it will have on people who have notifications for a channel that runs VODs, will it lead to them turning notifications off? Will they turn notifications back on later or forget? Will they miss streams due to forgetting they turned notifications off? It's a very tough spot for a streamer but some won't have a choice if they want to make enough money for their bills.

 

[lecracheursagacite]

If you're interested in this kind of stuff, I strongly suggest Devin Nash's youtube channel, specifically this video.

TL; DW: YouTube is in a much better condition than Mixer ever was. Their userbase is absolutely massive and they do a much better job than Twitch at suggesting their users streamers they actually want to watch, due to their powerful (yet still in development) algorithm.

Thank you for the tl;dw since I don't have time to watch it right now. I guess this doesn't really surprise me. Probably a bit more for Twitch to worry about then. It is interesting to see most major tech companies are trying to compete with Amazon in this space. To me shows how much gaming is becoming mainstream.

Edit: I will of course watch it when I have time.

 

[MaSmOrRa]

Thank you for the tl;dw since I don't have time to watch it right now. I guess this doesn't really surprise me. Probably a bit more for Twitch to worry about then. It is interesting to see most major tech companies are trying to compete with Amazon in this space. To me shows how much gaming is becoming mainstream.

Do watch it in full whenever you have the time.
You strike me as the kind of person who would enjoy such a video.
He's not the most eloquent speaker ever, but he does make very concise points and seems to be in a unique position to talk with deep knowledge about this sort of stuff.

Just saw your edit

 

[chacotanlines]

The only downside is that it does hurt the smaller streamers who are live at the same time as the reruns by popular streamers. It makes it harder for them to get views.

 

[lecracheursagacite]

Do watch it in full whenever you have the time.
You strike me as the kind of person who would enjoy such a video.
He's not the most eloquent speaker ever, but he does make very concise points and seems to be in a unique position to talk with deep knowledge about this sort of stuff.

beat you to it

ty for the compliment. I started watching and you characterize it pretty spot on. once I stopped worrying about how he was saying things it didn't bother me at all because the content itself was so good.

 

[Black Adder]

Every streamer that I've seen doing this has a command in their title which explains what they are doing and why.

I don't understand your outrage at this?

Because that is why there is the thing called Rerun, which Twitch directly instituted for this reason (if we omit the negative effect on community in pursuit of money at its expense, which is then a personal decision based on priorities). And why streaming is "live." And if they're doing it because of the compensation, even with explanation, it is directly avoiding the rules for the compensation, which clearly state live streams only, i.e. trying to get money in an unfair way (you shouldn't conflate here that if the streamer in question has lost due to the different prices revenue, he's somehow entitled to do what he wants to "get it back," from Twitch no less - shouldn't it be the viewers donating the difference? Because they are the ones paying less in the end, not Twitch, and that's why the revenue is lower, Twitch is paying still the same percentage - I know it's a complex topic how subs work and their problematic perception by people what they actually mean for the streamer, but that's how things stand, this compensation is actually Twitch giving money from their own pocket, it's not coming from the subscriber as usual). It's faking hours streamed. It's as if at your work you faked your work hours, had your friend beep for you hours later when you're already not there. There's really nothing complicated in this.

Does Twitch mind and pursue this? I don't know, maybe they consider it collateral not to alienate people. But that doesn't make it any less questionable.

You may be thinking what you want of the rules, but they are as they are, and, frankly, they have their reason. Do you for example think it would be okay to stream for three months, get a baseline compensation level, then stream nothing the next three months, logically having no subs in that time, and still get the average in those months paid by Twitch? For nothing? So why would it be okay if someone did for the next three months only VoD streams (in the extreme, demonstrative case) and nothing actually live - would you consider it okay for that person to get compensated when they actually weren't effectively streaming at all? The limit has to be set somewhere, and yeah, it is up for debate if it could've been placed differently, or if the summer timing is ideal, or if it all should've been done in another way (or the pricing at all), etc., sure. But it's meant to compensate your approximate activity and income in case the new change in sub pricing hurts you, not give you money for nothing. The compensation scheme didn't have to be put in place in the first place, but they realised they need to save some PR as some streamers will be hurt by this (though overall they're doing this to make more money, and that means creators should make more as well, but, well, case by case, and maybe in different time frames).

What I see questionable about this is the timing with Subtember, which will effectively solve for them a lot of compensations due to higher natural and gifted subbing due to further discount (they probably timed it pretty well for themselves).

 

[DracKeN]

Rerunning stuff (or streaming VODs) doesnt make great sense if its just regular ladder day I guess, but its up to everyone if they want to stream that content and if the viewers want to watch that content. Id not do either, but I also cant judge as for me the income from streaming isnt nearly as important so I can live without reaching the 82+ hour goals Id need.

Also the argument about blocking hours for smaller streamers isnt fair. That would assume big streamers are just aiming to build a streaming monopoly, but in fact they almost always host another streamers (including the smaller ones) before going off.