TyRanT become Team Secret as established eSports organization moves into AoE2

UnknownEuler_

Known Member
Jul 22, 2016
208
164
53
UK
#76
Given that the TyRanT name has been something of a baton passed down the ages from Halen to kkab to DauT to Viper, it would be cool if one of the Warlord players picks it up and rebuilds the team. RiuT and F1Re could rebrand LoS as the new TyRanT, or BacT and ACCM could try something similar. It's a legendary name and I'd love to see it endure.
That would be a strange thing to do. LoS is an ancient clan, which, I believe, predates Tyrant. So it doesn't make sense to rebrand it, in particular as there is an association of "Tyrant" with "Viper", "Daut", "Jordan". I am surprised that no one came up with the complaints put forward by L_Clan_Chris after the foundation of Tyrant.
 

Unknowngreen eggs

Active Member
Jul 28, 2017
84
142
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#80
That would be a strange thing to do. LoS is an ancient clan, which, I believe, predates Tyrant. So it doesn't make sense to rebrand it, in particular as there is an association of "Tyrant" with "Viper", "Daut", "Jordan". I am surprised that no one came up with the complaints put forward by L_Clan_Chris after the foundation of Tyrant.
I didn't know that about LoS, so fair enough. But the TyRanT roster has always been an evolving one. After all, it was originally a Korean team (plus Daut? I can't recall if he was a founding member). Viper and Jordan were only recruited from RVK when the Korean players started to retire and RiuT has been a member for longer than Slam (and about as long as Jordan if you count the years Jordan spent out of the game).

Three or so years ago TyRanT was seen either as kkab's team or as a sort of all-stars ensemble of the very best players outside China. So while it's now seen mainly as Viper and Daut's team, this isn't some eternal, unchangeable fact. (It's also worth mentioning that Viper hasn't had the TyRanT tag in his Voobly name for some time now.)
 

Germanydodageka

Longswordman
Feb 13, 2018
408
608
108
#82
That would be a strange thing to do. LoS is an ancient clan, which, I believe, predates Tyrant. So it doesn't make sense to rebrand it, in particular as there is an association of "Tyrant" with "Viper", "Daut", "Jordan". I am surprised that no one came up with the complaints put forward by L_Clan_Chris after the foundation of Tyrant.
I agree on the LoS part - I think it would make more sense if RiuT and Fire were to leave TyranT and properly join LoS - after all, there is no TyRanT 4v4 team left anymore, so I highly doubt they will ever play as TyRanTs again.

What complaints are you talking about though?
 
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GermanyAthasos

Well Known Pikeman
Jul 8, 2017
380
430
78
Hessen, Germany
#88
I watch quite a bit of Viper's streams but I've never heard him explain this before. Clearly I need to spend 30+ hours a week listening to literally everything he streams (time zones be damned!)
Don't get triggered mate. I tried to make a funny reply, but you took it a little too serious, so I apologize for that.
I am far away from watching every stream, as I always miss early or late streams, but heard it a dozen times at least, maybe you should also blame yourself for reading to much into something as irrelevant as a payername :wink:
 
Jul 5, 2010
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#89
I Question how this can be perceived as Good News...

We are basically saying, that from the 8 Teams playing ECL, ONE of them is being sponsored/became part of another organization.
In the case they're having monetary/other kind of incentive: You are pretty much boosting one of your teams, giving them an edge vs Others who don't have this kind of stuff...

Some perspective on how this NOT good for AoC Community/Competition as an external sponsor would be:
Scenario 1: Organization X will invest 10K USD to allow a team to practice and use their name, while already in the middle of a year tourney against other 7 teams.

Scenario 2: Organization x will Sponsor a tourney worth 10K USD, which will split to the 4 best Teams of this tourney. (With some rule like exclusive streaming/x adds of Organization X every round of tourney...)


Not to mention this topics are always led to a stupid vibe, when someone speculate that aM would be the logic choice for a 2nd team to be "picked up" by some E-Sport organization we have replys like

"We are going to have some surprises soon :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:"

Ok, in this case you'll sill have the same problem as before, two teams, and probably the two who are already above the others will have a "external advantage" that other teams won't have, which will increase the gap between those and the other teams..
In a perfect world, this would lead to more organizations backing up AoC Teams and the game becoming an E-Sport.

In reality, for a 3rd organization to join..would be a high risky/low return scenario.. they couldn't pick one of the two best teams, would have to guess which one of the other 6 is the best shot.. and would have 0 evidence/results to make that bet... not to mention they would probably sponsor a team who would get their asses kicked by the first 2 teams...


My conclusion on how thiings will go:
Scenario 1: Secret will be even more dominant over other teams, who are not only worse (considering last tourneys results) but also won't have sponsors, which will make them to be less competitive/motivated since they won't have the same reward for their effort...

Scenario 2: Secret and (aM) will be even more dominant over other teams, who are not only worse (considering last tourneys results) but also won't have sponsors, which will make them to be less competitive/motivated since they won't have the same reward for their effort...

This is ultimately will not bring E-Sport Status to AoC, for the next 2~3 years, just increase the skill GAP between the top 1(or 2 :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:) teams for sometime -.-
 

ChileNyara♥

Active Member
Jun 23, 2018
49
73
33
Tunaland
#90
Nigel, that is a silly reasoning. Secret will give extra coverage to AoEII, making the game more popular, thus giving more subscribers and donations to all the professional players, yeah, it will give even more to Tyrant, but Tyrant also fights against other teams and it will eventually leak into a more distributed bonus.

This is not even something new: long ago that Tyrant has always had the financial lead and more free time to dedicate to the game, and not undeserved, since even before that they have been the best performing since almost forever.

So yeah, it is a even better new for Tyrant, but it is also good news for all the community. France and Croatia kicked the butt of almost everyone in the World Cup for example, but that didn't make Football worst, in fact this one was the most popular World Cup in a while. People loves seeing people perform better than everyone else, and they also enjoy seeing worst teams facing each other and so on.
 

GermanyAthasos

Well Known Pikeman
Jul 8, 2017
380
430
78
Hessen, Germany
#91
I think it's a non argument to say Tyrant (or possibly aM) will only become stronger and dominate more now, is the only affect of professional esport organizations coming to Aoe.
Ofc there will always be those teams or players that play the game on a professional level and they will most likely perform better than the casual/hobby players.
But guess what thats the case in any sport and in any esport.

So the solution, that Stark shys away to bring up for the issues he has with professionalism in aoe, is to not include microsoft and not include orginizations like secret and keep the game on an amateur lvl with viper dominating all, as he is the only one playing this game full time due to his stream.

But sarcasm away what does this really mean to age?
I think it shows the potential, nothing more.
I highly doubt the players will be payed much for being in team secret for now, it's probably more about other stuff like help with streaming or publicity/social media etc.
Secret most likely expects Age to grow in the future and they most likely see this as an early investment into a potential Age 4 esport scene somehow.
One has to be the first and obviously it was the team with the best player and the biggest streamer. I think it is mainly due to vipers success, that they were considering an investment.
By getting secret involved other esport organizations might get interrested into age as well, and aM, SY or Suomi/Los have a chance to show their abilities on a potential big stream of ECL.

So all in all, if ECL gets more than (lets say a random high number) 5k viewers constantly during their streams and manages to attract some additional sponsors its very likely that more than just aM will be picked up by an esports organization similar to secret.

If you want to make aoe2 an esports you need professionalism and this is going into that direction but will it be a success?
Who knows, but there are at least some esports organizations who seem to consider it might be worth it going into age2 and secret decided it was worth before any ECL stream was live.
If you are a sceptical person you can come up with potential issues and me posting this doesn't mean it will be a clear path towards what many dream about (aoe2 esports :wink: )
But seeing so much negativity from stark makes me wanna post stupid long bullshit to express that optimism is way better if you want to have success than doubting everything and focussing only on the potential negative effects.
 
Last edited:
Jan 6, 2014
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#93
@NigelSlack
I think you are over-estimating the negative effects that this will have on other teams so soon. Also,
from what I've understood, the sponsorship is not facilitated by ECL. ECL is just the first tournament that the team will represent.

In (your) perfect world:
there would be enough sponsors interested for all 8 teams, and maybe all 8 teams would be equally skilled.

But since its not a perfect world or close to perfect world yet, things have to start somewhere. If someone had money and wanted to sponsor one team, they'd pick the team that would best further their interests.

And this is good news because this is better than the status quo. The status quo is relative anonymity for the AOE2 competitive scene. The exposure could bring more players, sponsors etc. But its still a step towards the right direction.

Worst case, this could very well amount to nothing and maybe demotivates some players. Best case, more sponsors and more players.. better competitive scene. I think either case changes the status quo... maybe be a bit optimistic for a change..
 

Unknowngreen eggs

Active Member
Jul 28, 2017
84
142
33
#94
This is ultimately will not bring E-Sport Status to AoC, for the next 2~3 years, just increase the skill GAP between the top 1(or 2 :wink::wink::wink::wink:) teams for sometime -.-
Skill gaps aren't inherently a bad thing. You can have skill gaps like in football, where rich clubs simply collect all the best players without contributing to the overall growth of the sport. You can have skill gaps because the game is divided between a tiny group of hardcore players and a large number of casuals. Both of those are bad, true.

But the kind of skill gap St4rk is complaining about here is a gap brought about by the opportunity for certain players and teams to become better than any player or team in AoE has ever been. That's not a bad thing, that's exciting!

Players in this game have learned a heck of a lot from watching top players over the years. Hearttt has mentioned that watching Viper and picking up on his strategies, hotkey usage etc was a key part of his training. Now Hearttt is competing at or around the Viper's level! The better and more visible these top players become, the more this will help the overall quality of the game.
 
Nov 9, 2016
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Voobly
Ladder
RM - 1v1
Rating
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#95
St4rk was hoping to do well in ECL but now his opponents will maybe practice 24/7 (depends on how much they get I guess?), I would be pessimistic too.
 
Likes: Tocaraca
Sep 4, 2017
37
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#96
Lots of interesting points.



One of the main sporting attractions is rivalry. Federer v Nadal; Frazier v Ali; Yankees v Red Sox; Senna v Prost. Competition and an uncertain outcome is what makes sport so absorbing and creates emotional attachment. Big sponsorship into one team could create an uneven playing field - of course Tyrant have won more often than not, they’ve been the better team; but they’ve often been pushed to the absolute limit and - love them or hate them - that’s what makes the games exciting. How many people want to watch a whole tournament of 3-0 walkovers?



However, that’s a short-term view. More money and more exposure for the game is great - Raising the overall standard and bringing new viewers and players. What it must not do is only benefit those at the top of the pyramid. The assumption that this injection will trickle down and benefit the community as a whole is just an assumption. Based on previous real world examples, both sporting and economic, this doesn’t seem to happen organically .... hence why governments and governing bodies exist; to redistribute wealth.



......Time for The Konfederation of Age2 People’s Promotion Association or KAPPA to be founded.



Seriously, I think this is a Great Leap Forward and would encourage those involved to plan for future success and have a clear vision of what that success looks like. Communicate that vision to everyone here and let us all get behind it to create moment.
 
Feb 16, 2016
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Netherlands
www.reddit.com
#97
Stark the first to be pissing vinegar again. I dont know why you are always so afraid of new developments. This is not 2008 anymore.

You should be happy a pro esports ream shows interest in aoe2. Only thing youre worried about is: skillgap, domination.

So worried? Close the gap! Show other teams you are worthy.

But again, nothing new for you to be ****ing salty about positive things...
 

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