Hi Everyone!
Finally I decided to share this result with all ppl who is interested.
So I was thinking on it earlier when it is worth to get wheelbarrow researsh optimally, founded out the production function and done the calculations afterwards (did it years ago).
considerations:
===============
First we have to think over for wheelbarrow research affects: capacity and moving speed
in which villager tasks do these factors get high importance?
basically in every walking task
I guess there are 2 possible/relevant options:
-on a booming map, only in farming, because every other resources is close to the gather point (tc, mine, mill) and of course we have attention to manage the villagers smoothly
on lumber there will be a little impact, because of that max 3 square they walk through (cannot estimate, but guess only some %)
only the first walk happens to 'greater' distance, but esentially the time spent by walking compared to the time spent by working is irrelevant
=> calculation will be right
-on an open map, where fighting is engaging the attention and you will have a lots of villager
on wood, have to go farther to farms because of not being placed optimally from production point of view
(because of defense gets more importance)
=> villagers move more, farther, so the calculations should be corrected/counterweighted according to the
profit generated from walking tasks outside of farming compared to the profit of farming
I do not know how much % it represents 10-20-30, measurements should be performed!
So the more they walk, the earlier wb has to be upgraded!
calculations:
=============
I am used to counting in villager seconds/villager production time(25sec).
wb costs approx 26,225 villager seconds/25sec, counted based on my test to meassure gathering rates
instead of standard aok wood-food production rates
175 food, 50 wood = approx 21 + 5,225
1. production function of economy which creates 3 more villagers instead of wheelbarrow =
x
2. production function of economy which get wb research =
1,157(x-3)
this 1,157 also came from my own measurements (and from farming perspective especially!)
When the integral of these 2 functions gets equal thats the point we are searching for,
because till that point the first function produces more gain, but after that the 2nd.
need some little adjustments:
regarding the 1st func
+ production time of the already created 2 villagers, 1st has 2x25 villagersec, 2nd has 1x25 villsec which equals 3
- the cost of 3 created villager
1/2x^2 +3 -18
and regarding the 2nd func
-the cost of wb researsh in villager seconds (because this value belongs to the produced 'area')
1.157/2x^2 -3.471x -26.225
equation:
1/2x^2 +3 -18 = 1.157/2x^2 -3.471x -26.225
x ~ 47,2
conclusion:
===========
on a booming map the ideal timing of the wheelbarrow reasearch is close to the 47th farmer, approximately regardless the other villagers, of course it is an upper estimation, so can be less with a few
on an open map, it can be more less, but do know know its weight, 5-30% or even more in case of bad map, messy game
I guess this value is not changing because of using more TCs, it depends on the weight(profit) of walking tasks,
so in our case the number of farmers.
experinces:
===========
So far I have only seen some players who seemed to be aware of this value, or at least more aware than others
specially among some good michi players, who are used to getting this upgrade after 40 farms.
(but maybe not that consciously because sometimes they different strat with early wb.)
Form top arabia-players only some chinese experts used it so far, during late feudal scout wars when they walled themselves and made 30-40 farms: Tim, Goodboy, but because they do not consistently do it in every game, it cannot be conscious either.
(So in my opinion nearly every top experts are getting it in bad time, which shows you how not important it is
compared to stratigical decisions & microing.
By the way I am not following the happenings in the past 1-1,5 years too much, has it changed?)
Please correct me if I have forgotten something adjustment, or I am on wrong way!
Thanks for reading in advance.
Br,
Andrew
PS: how can I upload & add some screenshots?
Finally I decided to share this result with all ppl who is interested.
So I was thinking on it earlier when it is worth to get wheelbarrow researsh optimally, founded out the production function and done the calculations afterwards (did it years ago).
considerations:
===============
First we have to think over for wheelbarrow research affects: capacity and moving speed
in which villager tasks do these factors get high importance?
basically in every walking task
I guess there are 2 possible/relevant options:
-on a booming map, only in farming, because every other resources is close to the gather point (tc, mine, mill) and of course we have attention to manage the villagers smoothly
on lumber there will be a little impact, because of that max 3 square they walk through (cannot estimate, but guess only some %)
only the first walk happens to 'greater' distance, but esentially the time spent by walking compared to the time spent by working is irrelevant
=> calculation will be right
-on an open map, where fighting is engaging the attention and you will have a lots of villager
on wood, have to go farther to farms because of not being placed optimally from production point of view
(because of defense gets more importance)
=> villagers move more, farther, so the calculations should be corrected/counterweighted according to the
profit generated from walking tasks outside of farming compared to the profit of farming
I do not know how much % it represents 10-20-30, measurements should be performed!
So the more they walk, the earlier wb has to be upgraded!
calculations:
=============
I am used to counting in villager seconds/villager production time(25sec).
wb costs approx 26,225 villager seconds/25sec, counted based on my test to meassure gathering rates
instead of standard aok wood-food production rates
175 food, 50 wood = approx 21 + 5,225
1. production function of economy which creates 3 more villagers instead of wheelbarrow =
x
2. production function of economy which get wb research =
1,157(x-3)
this 1,157 also came from my own measurements (and from farming perspective especially!)
When the integral of these 2 functions gets equal thats the point we are searching for,
because till that point the first function produces more gain, but after that the 2nd.
need some little adjustments:
regarding the 1st func
+ production time of the already created 2 villagers, 1st has 2x25 villagersec, 2nd has 1x25 villsec which equals 3
- the cost of 3 created villager
1/2x^2 +3 -18
and regarding the 2nd func
-the cost of wb researsh in villager seconds (because this value belongs to the produced 'area')
1.157/2x^2 -3.471x -26.225
equation:
1/2x^2 +3 -18 = 1.157/2x^2 -3.471x -26.225
x ~ 47,2
conclusion:
===========
on a booming map the ideal timing of the wheelbarrow reasearch is close to the 47th farmer, approximately regardless the other villagers, of course it is an upper estimation, so can be less with a few
on an open map, it can be more less, but do know know its weight, 5-30% or even more in case of bad map, messy game
I guess this value is not changing because of using more TCs, it depends on the weight(profit) of walking tasks,
so in our case the number of farmers.
experinces:
===========
So far I have only seen some players who seemed to be aware of this value, or at least more aware than others
specially among some good michi players, who are used to getting this upgrade after 40 farms.
(but maybe not that consciously because sometimes they different strat with early wb.)
Form top arabia-players only some chinese experts used it so far, during late feudal scout wars when they walled themselves and made 30-40 farms: Tim, Goodboy, but because they do not consistently do it in every game, it cannot be conscious either.
(So in my opinion nearly every top experts are getting it in bad time, which shows you how not important it is
compared to stratigical decisions & microing.
By the way I am not following the happenings in the past 1-1,5 years too much, has it changed?)
Please correct me if I have forgotten something adjustment, or I am on wrong way!
Thanks for reading in advance.
Br,
Andrew
PS: how can I upload & add some screenshots?