wAkKo
Progeusz
Mr_Yo
oceaningabyss
Mustang302
MAE_MEHello everyone hope you are well.
I would like to discuss with you this list of balance suggestions which I know that you will not like anyway but still..so they should be added for the fair play and better balance.
Balance suggestions for some civs
**General suggestions changes**
**1-The cheap imbalanced Eagles food cost**
I mean seriously! Do the devs think 20F cost for Eagles is balanced and fine?! Since more than 20 years this cost is still broken and untouched and need a change, **it should be 30F at least**.
**2-Outposts**
I think Outposts shouldn't have this 5 stone cost and it should be removed, **remove this 5 stone and add 10W**.
**3-Starting Eagle scout**
Regardless how strong the eagle scout in dark, I think the starting eagle scout shouldn't have the ability to garrison in TC and maybe also some of their LOS should be decreased.
**4-Steppe lancers**
Still no real role for this unit, and 70F, 40G is still somehow expensive cost for this unit that have less armor than light cav and same hp, I think **increasing their hp to 75hp instead of 60** would make them more viable.
**Civs balance suggestions**
**1-Franks**
Tell me again why this civ still have a cheap castles?! Why should they have this bonus in addition to all their strong bonuses already?! And Ironically the devs gave Slavs a new UT that make their castles cheaper but still worse than Franks free bonus for castles 11. Anyway, Franks should get 2 nerfs next patch:
1- No more have cheap dirt castles bonus.
2- Their hp bonus start **10%** feudal, **10%** castle.
**2-Britons**
Their archery ranges **workrate team bonus** is a toxic thing in the game this is regarldess their +1 range in castle and +1 in imp; so it should be:
1-Their archery range workrate should down from 20% faster to **10%**.
I also wanted to talk about their **+1 range in castle** how it is unbalanced but I mean what can you do? Maybe give them free fletching, free Bodkin and free Bracer and remove those free ranges?
**3-Chinese**
1-No more access to heavy camel nor to heavy cav archer.
2-Their technology discount should be **10%, 15%** castle, imp instead of 10%, 15%, 20%.
**4-Mayans**
1-Resources last **10%** instead of 15%
2-Archers **10%, 15%, 20%** instead of 10%, 20% 30% **or** remove last archer armour upgrade.
**5-Aztecs**
1-Each monastery upgrade gives now **+3** instead of +5.
2-Relics generate **25%** more gold instead of 33%.
**6-Persians**
1-Persians have a very bad laughable UT called "**Mahouts**". Since this UT is laughable and **usless** 99% of the time for a unit "War elephant" that barely see any use anyway, **this UT should be removed and give them something else like maybe knight line regenerate hp**.
2-The 2nd thing that **Persians were very famous also for their CA** but LOL here their CA are just so bad with the lack of the Bracer so I think they **should get a Bracer**.
**7-Celts**
1- Celts also have another laughable **useless UT called "Stronghold"** and it should be removed and give them something else.
2- 2nd thing Celts tech tree is just such a useless one ad have F tier tech tree, imo they either **should get bloodlines or plate barding armor**.
3- Celts should get back their dark age infantry speed bonus.
**8-Burmese**
1-Burmese also have another laughable UT "**Manipur cavalry**" which is so bad with a bad design, **this UT should be completely removed and give them something better**.
2-**Arambai** clearly needs a buff, and the devs ruined the unit with tons of nerfs so here I have some suggestions for Arambai:
1- Arambai now cost **60g, 60w** instead of 60g, 75w.
2- Arambai **speed** should increased to **1.35** instead of 1.3.
3- the 3rd point that I wanted to mention here is that I think it is too too much to give their elephants **free +1/+1 armor** and at the same time they have a UT give their elephants also +1/+1 so **I think this bonus should be removed**.
**9-Saracens**
1- Regardless that the devs buffed the Mameluke by removing the archer armor class from it, but I think this unit still laughable with it's ridiculously high cost "55f, 85g" so I think the gold cost should down to **70G or 65g**.
2-The **devs removed Saracens CA bonus vs buildings** and I think their CA should have something give them an identity somehow, so I suggest to **give them bonus that their CA created 20% faster**.
**10-The Brokengundians**
1-Their eco discount should down to **33%** or even less like **25%** instead of 40%.
2- Their stable discount is so powerful regardless not having bloodlines, so stable discount should down to **33%** instead of 50%.
3- Their **UU** still also strong so it may need a cost nerf like **+5/+5** for gold and food.
4-Their **gunpowder bonus** is strong with +25% more damage and I think **it should be removed** I actually wonder why they even have this bonus.
5- Their half Fetoria monastery bonus that make them generate food and gold need to be removed or nerfed.
**11-Gurjaras**
1- The Shirvamaha rider is still cheap dirt, 70f, 20g cost is just laughable and it should be **70f, 30g** at least.
Another thing that I wanted to mention, is that **Shirvamsha rider dodge ability should not work on melee attacks nor to siege or gunpowder**.
2- Here I also think they should lose 1 of their bushes under the TC.
3-Their team bonus is insanely strong for their camel scout play, so their training time for camels especially with having it already in feudal is to fast and too low, so **their camel scout in feudal training time should be increased or their team bonus should be decreased**.
I wanted to mention also how their castle age UT (**Kshatriyas**) is so powerful so it also **my need a cost nerf**.
**12-Hindustanis**
A civ that literally have 0 weaknesses. They have strong military, strong eco, strong UU, and just everything.
1- Why do you give them 25% attack faster for their camels and they have imp camels?!! This is so bad bonus and bad design, this bonus **should be completely removed or down to 15% or 10%**.
2-Their UU also need a nerf, I wish it was not introduced from the beginning, it is another UU for a civ that don't need. I mean why do you give a civ have FU Eskirms, armoured elephants and Onagers a new UU that also melt archers?!
**Ghulam food cost** should be **45F**, instead of 30F, or remove Bracer or last archer armor from them. Also Ghulam training time should be **16s** instead of 12s.
3-Their **hand cannoneer received 2 huge buffs** with **+1 more range and +1/1 armour** and they should lose one of these, **this is regardless that the hand cannoneer got a buff for the projectile speed and +5hp in previous patches**.
4-It seems their eco is still OP and problematic, maybe the villagers discount **should be removed from dark**.
**13-Byzantines**
This civ is just annoying to play with or against, and have tons of bonuses, free LOS techs (town patrol and town watch are free) which make the surprise attack does't work with this stupid civ, they also have cheap dirt counters with 25% discount that make their play so flexible and easy, and they also have cheap dirt imperial age. **Yes, Byzantines need a nerf**
IMO their counter units discount should down to **15% instead of 25%** as a beginning.
**14-Huns**
Their free half chivalery **team bonus should down from 20% to 10%** and I think their CA discount should be 15% in imp instead of 20% *or** they should lose Paladin upgrade **or** lose the xbow upgrade.
**15-Lithuanians**
1- The "ignore armor" mechanic in this game is just broken thing to bring, never liked it, for either Lithuanians as a UU or even Dravidians as a UT, I think this mechanic should be removed from the game but the devs will never do it. Anyway, for Lithuanians **since their UU completely ignore armor, I think it is just too much this is regardless that they have free attacks from relics** and great Paladins and also winged Hussar, but I think their UU need a nerf, their **gold cost should be 60g or 65 instead of 50**.
2- The other thing I think the start with +150 is still too much and maybe should down to **100** **OR** remove thumb ring.
**16-Sicilians**
This civ honestly still so problematic in the game with it's broken design regardless their winrates and still need many changes.
1- Yeah the devs nerfed their less damage bonus, however, **Hauberk, the 100% build faster for TCs and castles, 1st Crusade and even the 300 stone are all problematic**, they will also need a buff on other points as a compensate, but what I wanted to say, is that this 100% faster build for castles and TCs need a nerf, so instead of 100% make it **50%**.
2- The **300 stone is just too much**, yeah this because their Donjons are expensive, but just make their Donjons cheaper and **remove this 300 stone** and make it the normal 200 stone, **because** this start with 300 stone make their castle drop (which is already broken by the 100% faster build) more easier and faster at any map.
As I said they will need buffs also as a compensate but I don't have idea how to buff them, but for sure the 100% build faster for castles and TCs need a nerf and also their 300 stone, I also wanted to mention that I never liked the concept of army from nowhere (Burgundians Flemish milita or Sicilians 1st crusade) so it seems these also will remain a cancer in the game for ever. About Hauberk it is just a ridiculous design UT for a civ that doesn't need it, so I don't know.
**17-Bulgarians**
This civ have tons of bonuses and options and in general the free instant upgrade concept is also another gemmik thing especially for a whole line like the miltia line free instant upgrades for Bulgarians, and I honestly think Bulgarians shoud lose something:
Militia line upgrade **no more free but cost no gold**.
I also wanted to mention that having **cheap dirt castles (kreposts)**, **50% discount blacksmith** and also **50% discount food on siege upgrades** all this stuff is too much, so their siege discoubt may need a nerf also but lets start with their militia line free bonus nerf then check.
**18-Cumans**
* Archery ranges no more cost 100W and back to normal cost.
**Why**?
**Before** as Cumans you **should make a decision** with either booming or not **but this is not the case anymore** with the new cheaper military buildings, you can now rush and at the same time boom or defend with barrack and range and at the same time boom and **this make them highly imbalanced with having 2nd TC in feudal with cheaper military buildings with also siege workshop in feudal**
**19-Berbers**
* Villagers now move **5%** instead of **10%**
* Stable units **10%** cheaper in castle, **15%** in imp instead of **15%** castle, **20%** imp.
**20-Poles**
* Obuch now cost **60f, 30g** instead of 55f, 20g.
* Szlachta Privileges now cost **550f, 400g** instead of 500f, 300g.
**21-Bohemians**
I honestly think they should either lose fervor effect on vills because it is a very huge boost of the eco, or at least lost gold shaft mining and stone shaft mining.
**22-Portoguese**
It was a big surprise actually that the devs give these huge buffs for a civ like Portoguese, which they are clearly a civ that didn't need any sort of buff.
After the last buffs I think the Portoguese gold discount should go down from the current 20% to 15%.
I would like to discuss with you this list of balance suggestions which I know that you will not like anyway but still..so they should be added for the fair play and better balance.
Balance suggestions for some civs
**General suggestions changes**
**1-The cheap imbalanced Eagles food cost**
I mean seriously! Do the devs think 20F cost for Eagles is balanced and fine?! Since more than 20 years this cost is still broken and untouched and need a change, **it should be 30F at least**.
**2-Outposts**
I think Outposts shouldn't have this 5 stone cost and it should be removed, **remove this 5 stone and add 10W**.
**3-Starting Eagle scout**
Regardless how strong the eagle scout in dark, I think the starting eagle scout shouldn't have the ability to garrison in TC and maybe also some of their LOS should be decreased.
**4-Steppe lancers**
Still no real role for this unit, and 70F, 40G is still somehow expensive cost for this unit that have less armor than light cav and same hp, I think **increasing their hp to 75hp instead of 60** would make them more viable.
**Civs balance suggestions**
**1-Franks**
Tell me again why this civ still have a cheap castles?! Why should they have this bonus in addition to all their strong bonuses already?! And Ironically the devs gave Slavs a new UT that make their castles cheaper but still worse than Franks free bonus for castles 11. Anyway, Franks should get 2 nerfs next patch:
1- No more have cheap dirt castles bonus.
2- Their hp bonus start **10%** feudal, **10%** castle.
**2-Britons**
Their archery ranges **workrate team bonus** is a toxic thing in the game this is regarldess their +1 range in castle and +1 in imp; so it should be:
1-Their archery range workrate should down from 20% faster to **10%**.
I also wanted to talk about their **+1 range in castle** how it is unbalanced but I mean what can you do? Maybe give them free fletching, free Bodkin and free Bracer and remove those free ranges?
**3-Chinese**
1-No more access to heavy camel nor to heavy cav archer.
2-Their technology discount should be **10%, 15%** castle, imp instead of 10%, 15%, 20%.
**4-Mayans**
1-Resources last **10%** instead of 15%
2-Archers **10%, 15%, 20%** instead of 10%, 20% 30% **or** remove last archer armour upgrade.
**5-Aztecs**
1-Each monastery upgrade gives now **+3** instead of +5.
2-Relics generate **25%** more gold instead of 33%.
**6-Persians**
1-Persians have a very bad laughable UT called "**Mahouts**". Since this UT is laughable and **usless** 99% of the time for a unit "War elephant" that barely see any use anyway, **this UT should be removed and give them something else like maybe knight line regenerate hp**.
2-The 2nd thing that **Persians were very famous also for their CA** but LOL here their CA are just so bad with the lack of the Bracer so I think they **should get a Bracer**.
**7-Celts**
1- Celts also have another laughable **useless UT called "Stronghold"** and it should be removed and give them something else.
2- 2nd thing Celts tech tree is just such a useless one ad have F tier tech tree, imo they either **should get bloodlines or plate barding armor**.
3- Celts should get back their dark age infantry speed bonus.
**8-Burmese**
1-Burmese also have another laughable UT "**Manipur cavalry**" which is so bad with a bad design, **this UT should be completely removed and give them something better**.
2-**Arambai** clearly needs a buff, and the devs ruined the unit with tons of nerfs so here I have some suggestions for Arambai:
1- Arambai now cost **60g, 60w** instead of 60g, 75w.
2- Arambai **speed** should increased to **1.35** instead of 1.3.
3- the 3rd point that I wanted to mention here is that I think it is too too much to give their elephants **free +1/+1 armor** and at the same time they have a UT give their elephants also +1/+1 so **I think this bonus should be removed**.
**9-Saracens**
1- Regardless that the devs buffed the Mameluke by removing the archer armor class from it, but I think this unit still laughable with it's ridiculously high cost "55f, 85g" so I think the gold cost should down to **70G or 65g**.
2-The **devs removed Saracens CA bonus vs buildings** and I think their CA should have something give them an identity somehow, so I suggest to **give them bonus that their CA created 20% faster**.
**10-The Brokengundians**
1-Their eco discount should down to **33%** or even less like **25%** instead of 40%.
2- Their stable discount is so powerful regardless not having bloodlines, so stable discount should down to **33%** instead of 50%.
3- Their **UU** still also strong so it may need a cost nerf like **+5/+5** for gold and food.
4-Their **gunpowder bonus** is strong with +25% more damage and I think **it should be removed** I actually wonder why they even have this bonus.
5- Their half Fetoria monastery bonus that make them generate food and gold need to be removed or nerfed.
**11-Gurjaras**
1- The Shirvamaha rider is still cheap dirt, 70f, 20g cost is just laughable and it should be **70f, 30g** at least.
Another thing that I wanted to mention, is that **Shirvamsha rider dodge ability should not work on melee attacks nor to siege or gunpowder**.
2- Here I also think they should lose 1 of their bushes under the TC.
3-Their team bonus is insanely strong for their camel scout play, so their training time for camels especially with having it already in feudal is to fast and too low, so **their camel scout in feudal training time should be increased or their team bonus should be decreased**.
I wanted to mention also how their castle age UT (**Kshatriyas**) is so powerful so it also **my need a cost nerf**.
**12-Hindustanis**
A civ that literally have 0 weaknesses. They have strong military, strong eco, strong UU, and just everything.
1- Why do you give them 25% attack faster for their camels and they have imp camels?!! This is so bad bonus and bad design, this bonus **should be completely removed or down to 15% or 10%**.
2-Their UU also need a nerf, I wish it was not introduced from the beginning, it is another UU for a civ that don't need. I mean why do you give a civ have FU Eskirms, armoured elephants and Onagers a new UU that also melt archers?!
**Ghulam food cost** should be **45F**, instead of 30F, or remove Bracer or last archer armor from them. Also Ghulam training time should be **16s** instead of 12s.
3-Their **hand cannoneer received 2 huge buffs** with **+1 more range and +1/1 armour** and they should lose one of these, **this is regardless that the hand cannoneer got a buff for the projectile speed and +5hp in previous patches**.
4-It seems their eco is still OP and problematic, maybe the villagers discount **should be removed from dark**.
**13-Byzantines**
This civ is just annoying to play with or against, and have tons of bonuses, free LOS techs (town patrol and town watch are free) which make the surprise attack does't work with this stupid civ, they also have cheap dirt counters with 25% discount that make their play so flexible and easy, and they also have cheap dirt imperial age. **Yes, Byzantines need a nerf**
IMO their counter units discount should down to **15% instead of 25%** as a beginning.
**14-Huns**
Their free half chivalery **team bonus should down from 20% to 10%** and I think their CA discount should be 15% in imp instead of 20% *or** they should lose Paladin upgrade **or** lose the xbow upgrade.
**15-Lithuanians**
1- The "ignore armor" mechanic in this game is just broken thing to bring, never liked it, for either Lithuanians as a UU or even Dravidians as a UT, I think this mechanic should be removed from the game but the devs will never do it. Anyway, for Lithuanians **since their UU completely ignore armor, I think it is just too much this is regardless that they have free attacks from relics** and great Paladins and also winged Hussar, but I think their UU need a nerf, their **gold cost should be 60g or 65 instead of 50**.
2- The other thing I think the start with +150 is still too much and maybe should down to **100** **OR** remove thumb ring.
**16-Sicilians**
This civ honestly still so problematic in the game with it's broken design regardless their winrates and still need many changes.
1- Yeah the devs nerfed their less damage bonus, however, **Hauberk, the 100% build faster for TCs and castles, 1st Crusade and even the 300 stone are all problematic**, they will also need a buff on other points as a compensate, but what I wanted to say, is that this 100% faster build for castles and TCs need a nerf, so instead of 100% make it **50%**.
2- The **300 stone is just too much**, yeah this because their Donjons are expensive, but just make their Donjons cheaper and **remove this 300 stone** and make it the normal 200 stone, **because** this start with 300 stone make their castle drop (which is already broken by the 100% faster build) more easier and faster at any map.
As I said they will need buffs also as a compensate but I don't have idea how to buff them, but for sure the 100% build faster for castles and TCs need a nerf and also their 300 stone, I also wanted to mention that I never liked the concept of army from nowhere (Burgundians Flemish milita or Sicilians 1st crusade) so it seems these also will remain a cancer in the game for ever. About Hauberk it is just a ridiculous design UT for a civ that doesn't need it, so I don't know.
**17-Bulgarians**
This civ have tons of bonuses and options and in general the free instant upgrade concept is also another gemmik thing especially for a whole line like the miltia line free instant upgrades for Bulgarians, and I honestly think Bulgarians shoud lose something:
Militia line upgrade **no more free but cost no gold**.
I also wanted to mention that having **cheap dirt castles (kreposts)**, **50% discount blacksmith** and also **50% discount food on siege upgrades** all this stuff is too much, so their siege discoubt may need a nerf also but lets start with their militia line free bonus nerf then check.
**18-Cumans**
* Archery ranges no more cost 100W and back to normal cost.
**Why**?
**Before** as Cumans you **should make a decision** with either booming or not **but this is not the case anymore** with the new cheaper military buildings, you can now rush and at the same time boom or defend with barrack and range and at the same time boom and **this make them highly imbalanced with having 2nd TC in feudal with cheaper military buildings with also siege workshop in feudal**
**19-Berbers**
* Villagers now move **5%** instead of **10%**
* Stable units **10%** cheaper in castle, **15%** in imp instead of **15%** castle, **20%** imp.
**20-Poles**
* Obuch now cost **60f, 30g** instead of 55f, 20g.
* Szlachta Privileges now cost **550f, 400g** instead of 500f, 300g.
**21-Bohemians**
I honestly think they should either lose fervor effect on vills because it is a very huge boost of the eco, or at least lost gold shaft mining and stone shaft mining.
**22-Portoguese**
It was a big surprise actually that the devs give these huge buffs for a civ like Portoguese, which they are clearly a civ that didn't need any sort of buff.
After the last buffs I think the Portoguese gold discount should go down from the current 20% to 15%.
Last edited:
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