When you walk outside, look up at the sky and see that it's blue. Do you need scientific proof to tell you it's blue or do you trust your own observation?
I seek to know why it's blue.When you walk outside, look up at the sky and see that it's blue. Do you need scientific proof to tell you it's blue or do you trust your own observation?
I disagree, and I dont have any calculations to back it up, but hey I guess maybe Im starting to fit in here!This is better than porn
The last 8 posts have insults and chatter but contribute nothing to the conversation in terms or math, calculations, simulations, etc. If you are all so convinced Im wrong, its surprising that nobody is putting in any effort to prove it. At least TheHand and Trirem showed up and put in some effort.
In simulation, it takes NINETEEN minutes for ramping into trade to BREAKEVEN in total resources vs an equal player who is just mining and chopping. 4v4 BF TG with 15 carts for teammates. Go prove me wrong, or test it with your own boom skills. Otherwise its just childish chit chat.
Rayleigh scatteringI seek to know why it's blue.
So your position is that the defender never gets forced into a fight in his base to protect his economy and markets/trade? How do games end when you play in them?You're still focusing on How much resources the trader has extra and how much army he can produce with that, but you've provided zero proof for the fact that that amount of resources and army can be game-deciding.
All you say is that you have x amount of extra paladins or mangudai, but you show no plan how you're going to win the game with that extra army. You are assuming you can get an even fight with your army against the opponents army, which won't be the case unless your opponent is stupid.
I missed the glaringly nullify my points part. I only accept challenges from people who can trade profitably since you making 4 trade carts by 40 minutes isnt exactly testing anything. I think I trade more by accidental missclick than you do on purpose.Ah, how typical. You latch on to the posts that mock you, as a way of ignoring the posts that glaringly nullify your points. Trolling 101. Strategy is crucial to determining whether selling is more likely to win you the game than trading. Glad we all now agree, well done for finally conceding. It would have been more impressive if you'd admitted it in writing, but some egos only allow yielding via omission and silence. Anyway, QED, gg wp. 11
I missed the glaringly nullify my points part. I only accept challenges from people who can trade profitably since you making 4 trade carts by 40 minutes isnt exactly testing anything. I think I trade more by accidental missclick than you do on purpose.
I did find a Nations Cup BF TG 4v4 where everybody who invested in trade didnt turn a profit. Game ends at 39.5 minutes. I believe previously you linked me to high level TGs and criticized me for not providing the specific example of tourneys that were previously discussed in this thread, for which I previously then pointed out that those pros didnt turn profit in trade either. Oh, and they had Spanish teammates both!
BF match starts at 2:06 hours in:
Nations Cup 2017, SICK SEMIFINAL China Frantic vs Finland A
twitch - https://www.twitch.tv/membtvsubscirbe - https://www.twitch.tv/subs/membtvfacebook - https://www.facebook.com/MembTVevent page - https://www.facebook...youtu.be
Ive said it 100x, my spreadsheets and my simulations show trading is hugely popular (edit: profitable). The WHEN and HOW LONG is integral to ROI.Cluck, cluck. Now you change your story again saying you don't want to play me anymore. You're as consistent as my digestion after a bad curry. You're justifying your entire argument by crowing about one pleb win. Heard about building houses on sand? I, a noob, lost to an HD noob on HD where I never play, on a 12 inch screen I never use. Oh, woe is me! Additionally, you now admit there are "people who can trade profitably". Great, we are in agreement again! Such consensus, much wow. Plus, cherry-picking games, trolling, tomato, tomAto... 11
Ive said it 100x, my spreadsheets and my simulations show trading is hugely popular. The WHEN and HOW LONG is integral to ROI.
I wasnt refusing your challenge, just mocking you for not being well suited to this challenge or science. And yeah for losing the only challenge match where we both knew the rules. I could go buy 100 17" screen laptops with the money Ive made profitably investing in stocks. Perhaps you arent suitable competition as someone struggling with their own economics such that they game on 12" screens and dont even have one that can run a 20 year old game without overheating.
Even I went into my 4v4 HD scenario and ran it up to 36 carts long before 40 minutes. I then showed how skipping trade at the same pop allowed me to build a devastatingly ~22% stronger group of gold heavy units.
because you ban the garbage from reddit and then they come here. Just keep them there
So many personal insults! I have zero motivation to play in a game where nothing is on the line and theres no acceptance of what the game/test will prove. If two games, one where I boomed to 181 vils then found out the pop cap was 200, and resigned with 6k more total resources, the other where we both knew the rules and i boomed to 142 vils same as you and won with 2.3k more total resources, if those 2 games havent convinced you and everyone that you cant turn a trade profit and are a worse player for those settings, more games wont help.Fantastic, if you're not refusing my challenge, you're accepting it. PM me when you're set up on Voobly. Your familiarity with the scientific method is not sufficient to criticise the scientic capabilities of others. The GPU on my gaming laptop gave out, pretty simple, and I'd be more than happy for you to take up my case with Microsoft about the overheating Surface 4 Pro. They already issue free replacements, as it's an unacceptable fault for the age and price of the device. But I'm sure you could convince them I'm also due compensation as the ROI on my purchase was too traumatic.
The fact that you brag you "could go buy 100 17" screen laptops with the money ... made profitably investing in stocks" speaks volumes about yourself. It's clear you're either compensating for something, suffering from a laughable superiority complex, or hopelessly trolling. My money's on all three.
Pete banned me. I appreciate being unbanned, but I attached a pic of the recent post which sparked me back into this discussion. Note this question specifically asked about the bumping in a 4v4 Michi game, which is pretty similar to my video and calculations example. But my assumption is Pete didnt agree with it and just removed it.I unbanned him and it wasnt me that banned him in the first place. He can still post there too.
if those 2 games havent convinced you and everyone that you cant turn a trade profit
Yes that is baked in. Every carts wood cost, and every wood chopped for profit by the non trader is earned at the market bottom price of 17/100. And that worst case scenario is atypical as you can see in many pro games like the Viper BF matches where he'll click on a market and you can see the price of wood isnt bottomed. And I know the response this will get, but not every match is between high level pros: many low level matches like the ones I play in see market prices not bottom until later than 40 mins. Ive linked to viper 4v4 BF matches previously where he was ramping into trade and the market price of wood was >70. Wood market price/100 * Wood gather rate is your gold gather rate. So a market price of 70 means youre getting around 20g/m from one wood chopper. Um, yes please. Remind me again what one trade cart earns you per minute? What do they cost again?Does your math take into account if all 8 players start your awesome strategy of selling wood/food. usually the market prices are bottomed out fairly quickly as players click up to imp ^^
We settled whether trading helped you in either game vs me: it had negative return so it cost you money. Less resources hurts winning chances all other things equal. Argument over. More money is good. Less is bad.Turning a trade profit wasn't what was being examined, but well done shifting goal-posts for the umpteenth time. We're trying to examine if selling helps you win the game over trading. But at least you now accept you have "zero motivation" to play the challenges. Oh how the tables have turned! And me being a "worse player" or not has zero bearing on the discussion, but your ego can't let you accept that. I'm perfectly happy with my Voobly 1v1 arabia rating, seems you have a chip on your shoulder that no-one takes your HD rating seriously.
Just to keep this going obviously ...We settled whether trading helped you in either game vs me: it had negative return so it cost you money. Less resources hurts winning chances all other things equal. Argument over. More money is good. Less is bad.
Assuming you find a way to somehow disagree with the above due to stubbornness in the face of the simplest argument ever, what were we testing in our matches? What would we be testing in your suggested further challenge matches? What happened to the guy who liked the idea of me (or others) booming in the 4v4 BF scenario with and then without trading to simulate and compare resource amounts at various times?
I have a theoretical spreadsheet showing 14 minutes ROI, and a simulated 4v4 scenario showing 19 minutes ROI. How many games would you give someone to prove they can trade profitably? TheHand went 0 for 2.Just to keep this going obviously ...
Why are you arguing anecdotal evidence?
You say yourself only 1 played game was worth to be examined and now you argue with this match.
Google empiric evidence please.
One example proves nothing at all