I mentioned Survivalist, did not know about Viper discussion. I do not count youtube shorts or tweets as critique.Youtube:
33k views (Hera): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=064gHx1NE60
41k views (Hera): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H-UtJXXrdE
29k views (Hera): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3on_nIhM7k
3.6k views (survivalist): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QQ_t5FvOGk
22k views (viper, discussion during pathing fixes): https://youtu.be/VshdN4_iIdo?si=KCideWYnd2OhqCzH&t=780
1k views (Bebe, just hilarious): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-gr7HTts-I
Also see basically every Viper stream / youtube video and the constant "new and improved pathing" memes
Twitter:
Hera: https://twitter.com/Hera_Aoe/status/1729177092070293788
Memb: https://twitter.com/membtv/status/1739954552458084598
T90: https://twitter.com/T90Official/status/1649122541317808128
Morley games: https://twitter.com/MorleyGamesYT/status/1675956461787070464
I'm sure there's lots more, but this was ~90 seconds of looking
You may not count shorts or tweets as critique, but they have far more reach and impact than long form videosI mentioned Survivalist, did not know about Viper discussion. I do not count youtube shorts or tweets as critique.
EDIT: This was the video I had in mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apKc3Q1xQyE
This is something I would call honest and direct criticism of current pathfinding issues.
That is true if by "impact" you understand views. But views on its own change nothing. It is also arguable, that making funny videos undermine seriousness of these issues, hence do not help at all.You may not count shorts or tweets as critique, but they have far more reach and impact than long form videos
regardless, you still have absolutely no idea whatsoever of their private communication with devs, which would be the most "official" and "direct" way to address it.That is true if by "impact" you understand views. But views on its own change nothing. It is also arguable, that making funny videos undermine seriousness of these issues, hence do not help at all.
regardless, you still have absolutely no idea whatsoever of their private communication with devs, which would be the most "official" and "direct" way to address it.
to just assume they don't seems ridiculous, when they have openly talked about communicating with devs.
yes, because the middle of a major tournament broadcast is the best place to further air out grievances that are already well documented and have been complained about by the entire pro scene basically every day since the patch last came out.You are also making some big assumptions here without any knowledge
We are just saying that complaints about pathing issues are completely disproportionate to how fundamental the issue is. This is based on their publicly available communication
In the S tier lan event, NAC 5
- units have been found teleporting on stream
- units are regrouping weirdly, taking stupid paths in almost every game
How many times someone has mentioned this on stream …. ZERO
As YodaIamm pointed out, my point is not as much about them being silent but rather that their "criticsm" is disproportionate to the seriousness of isses and the fact that many of these pro players have been complicit in hyping and promoting DE since its realease and many years later. Also, forgive me if I am not aware of their discreet discord servers with devs since AOE is hobby to me and I have never invested that much time into it. I do not follow pro players as celebrities and do not sit 24/7 on their streams so yes I could have missed this crucial informantion. But unless you have first hand information what has been discussed there and in what manners, you are guilty of same ignorance you accuse me of.regardless, you still have absolutely no idea whatsoever of their private communication with devs, which would be the most "official" and "direct" way to address it.
to just assume they don't seems ridiculous, when they have openly talked about communicating with devs.
the very root of our discussion is that you are were being critical of the pros for not saying anything, while also stating "I have not seen any pro player making youtube video of pathfinding issue"As YodaIamm pointed out, my point is not as much about them being silent but rather that their "criticsm" is disproportionate to the seriousness of isses and the fact that many of these pro players have been complicit in hyping and promoting DE since its realease and many years later. Also, forgive me if I am not aware of their discreet discord servers with devs since AOE is hobby to me and I have never invested that much time into it. I do not follow pro players as celebrities and do not sit 24/7 on their streams so yes I could have missed this crucial informantion. But unless you have first hand information what has been discussed there and in what manners, you are guilty of same ignorance you accuse me of.
Where I made statement they said nothing? You misinterpret my words. I have been critical mostly towards YOU and LowEloNobody for being critical against YodaIamm who merely expressed opinion that pros are being meek in their criticism. Which I whole heartedly agree with. In light of their previous praise on game, their current criticism is very "meek".he very root of our discussion is that you are were being critical of the pros for not saying anything,
Show me youtube video, not meme shorts or twitter posts but actual video like Mentalist did from top 10 players. At least a one or two. Again, I may not be aware of it because I do not follow these people. So I inquire you, please, do it for me.while also stating "I have not seen any pro player making youtube video of pathfinding issue"
but its been pretty well documented in this thread that they have done both of those things.
Once again you misinterpret my words. I said I "wish that form of critique would be more official, more direct or something rather than mere remarks in middle of stream". I did not even mention devs here. Neither does it imply that there is absolutely no communication at all.you also criticized them for not having "official" or "direct" communication with the devs. you have no clue if they have or havent. I never said that I know for a fact that they did, other than them having told their viewers previously that they have had discussions with the devs about game balance, pathing issues, etc...
Well, DE at launch (if im right HD was also a disaster compared to userpatch) was a complete disaster (cavarly was unplayable for a year or so) and somehow around one-two years pathing got it's more decent status, then began to work worse again, so i am not sure there is a savior out there.Recently there was interesting topic in Reddit (a miracle)
Appearantly he was the lead enginner of team who ported AOC to HD.
When game was done the team was disbanded and the code was transfered to Cysion and friends to make dlcs
Later he was lead engineer of team who ported HD to DE and again when game was done team got disbanded (2019)
and then Cysion and his modders began creating DLCS.
he said "don't" or "very meekly"Where I made statement they said nothing? You misinterpret my words. I have been critical mostly towards YOU and LowEloNobody for being critical against YodaIamm who merely expressed opinion that pros are being meek in their criticism. Which I whole heartedly agree with. In light of their previous praise on game, their current criticism is very "meek".
Secondly I was critical of double standards because when "random" people like me criticized devs in past, we were told to go and address this criticism on their own website. Now suddely, LowEloNobody posts links to youtube shorts showing how pro's are "vocal" about issues as if it was enough.
Yes, I have not been aware of any discord between pros and devs, my bad.
um, no?Show me youtube video, not meme shorts or twitter posts but actual video like Mentalist did from top 10 players. At least a one or two. Again, I may not be aware of it because I do not follow these people. So I inquire you, please, do it for me.
again, you literally have no clue what you are talking about, and at this point look more like you're just trying to save face for making an ill-informed post. if you come here to whine about something in complete ignorance, you probably should expect some blowback.Once again you misinterpret my words. I said I "wish that form of critique would be more official, more direct or something rather than mere remarks in middle of stream". I did not even mention devs here. Neither does it imply that there is absolutely no communication at all.
And finally, the existence of discreet discord chanel or something does not mean **** if it is not public. You are assuming as much as I am but even if I give them benefit of doubt and believe that they were super critical of game issues, it does not mean **** because as long as it is not public, devs can simply ignore it. And the fact that some players make publicly available videos where they praise new DLC and speak how excited they are but then make their complaints behind closed doors is itself questionable practise.
Seriously? I can show yout at least three videos from at least two top players praising new DLC's (at least one of them in early access) stating how exciting it is, how it is great news for every aoe2 fan and so on. If I gave an effort I could find much more. Can you find some decent video where they would (at similar length and detail) criticize current game issues?again, you literally have no clue what you are talking about, and at this point look more like you're just trying to save face for making an ill-informed post. if you come here to whine about something in complete ignorance, you probably should expect some blowback.
you seriously think a video crapping on pathing should take anywhere near as long as doing a discussion of patch notes involving balance changes, new civs, etc... ?Seriously? I can show yout at least three videos from at least two top players praising new DLC's (at least one of them in early access) stating how exciting it is, how it is great news for every aoe2 fan and so on. If I gave an effort I could find much more. Can you find some decent video where they would (at similar length and detail) criticize current game issues?
If you consider making 15 (or 25 minute) long video hyping new DLC and then making 15 sec youtube short balanced approach, then I guess we have nothing to discuss any further. And if you call out others for speaking in ignorance while you provided nothing but your belief of their good intention then I guess we have nothing to discuss either way.
I did mention that discord to you specifically pretty early in this thread. I must say I find this whole discussion a bit confusing. You and others present your view, which is fine, but when presented with evidence as to why you might be wrong on some points, you still keep on saying the same things again. It seems to me what you want is for every streamer, pro player, and content creator to make a 20-minute-long YouTube video discussing pathing? It also seems like some here believe that if you don't like the state of pathing right now you can't like the new DLCs either?Where I made statement they said nothing? You misinterpret my words. I have been critical mostly towards YOU and LowEloNobody for being critical against YodaIamm who merely expressed opinion that pros are being meek in their criticism. Which I whole heartedly agree with. In light of their previous praise on game, their current criticism is very "meek".
Secondly I was critical of double standards because when "random" people like me criticized devs in past, we were told to go and address this criticism on their own website. Now suddely, LowEloNobody posts links to youtube shorts showing how pro's are "vocal" about issues as if it was enough.
Yes, I have not been aware of any discord between pros and devs, my bad.
Yes, you did mention. And I acknowledged it.I did mention that discord to you specifically pretty early in this thread. I must say I find this whole discussion a bit confusing.
This whole discussion started as me defending YodaIamm who thinks pros criticism is unsufficient. I agree with this view, I think that amount of positive attitude expressed by pros is hugely disproportionate to the amount of criticism expressed by them. That's it.I must say I find this whole discussion a bit confusing.
You ask me if I want "every streamer, pro player and content creator to make 20minute long videos"? No. I don't think I said so. I also said, I even understand them.You and others present your view, which is fine, but when presented with evidence as to why you might be wrong on some points, you still keep on saying the same things again. It seems to me what you want is for every streamer, pro player, and content creator to make a 20-minute-long YouTube video discussing pathing? It also seems like some here believe that if you don't like the state of pathing right now you can't like the new DLCs either?
If you do enjoy DLC, go ahead, I am not stopping you. I merely wish certain pro players would not advertise these DLC as something great when there is so many issues.It also seems like some here believe that if you don't like the state of pathing right now you can't like the new DLCs either?
This thread is a perfect example of why AoEZone died
didnt happen. facts were pointed out that there absolutely has been criticism on pathing. cases were presented by both sides, and when it became a matter of opinion on whether that criticism was sufficient or not, there was agreement to disagree.Apologists brigading conversations, flaming even the slightest, milquetoast degree of criticism about how Pro's have time to advocate nerfing things they don't understand or that don't benefit their playstyle like walls or monks (detailed, segment long installments in some cases,) but nothing on pathing?
didnt happen. i dont understand why you continue to lie and make things up.People telling another user to shutup because MS's lack of investment on a re-re-release or care for QA is out of anyone's hands because apparently they'd rather flame warranted criticism than see it?
you regularly attempt to do this passive aggressively towards one streamer in particular, including in this very post roflRandom flames of people not even in the thread/discussion?
Mostly you tbhPray tell thee what is "today's" reason for the "death" of aoezon