Tarsiz
Armani_aoe
Min
grathwrang
Jebin David
tresu
eC_Gurke
MyRegalTip
weren87
SalzZ_Vinchester
Andre_2i
nimanoe
naghma654
Black Adder
Nheltarion
PROject_Belgium
MaSmOrRa
Chrazini
harooooo
RoR_xTeRRoRx
Clemensor
FeAge
Welcome to this interview, TheMadCADer. I want to give more exposure to AoE II map creators and talk to you about your experience and the development of map scripting in the recent years. You have been a competitive map scripter since many years, best known for your big Mad Random map pack.
My name is Mike. I’m 26. I like exercising (working out, running), the outdoors, and playing piano.
What does your username mean and why did you choose it?
CAD stands for Computer Aided Design. Back in school, I was involved in a robotics team. That was my role, 3D modeling/design, and I was proud of it. My profile pic is also based off of that team’s logo. That was important to me at the time I was getting into the AoE community.
People know you mostly as a map scripter, but how much of an AoE II player are you? How often do you play and at which level?
I played HD a little back in 2013-2014. It was pretty casual back then. I tried Voobly for a bit when I wanted more competition, but that didn’t last very long. When DE was in a beta, and after it first came out, I played multiplayer then, but that’s because so many of my maps were broken when DE was released. But after DE fixed some of its problems, and I learned what was needed to fix my maps, I now pretty much only play my maps now, just against the AI.
When did you play AoE II for the first time? Have you played AoE I/III? What are your hopes for AoE IV?
I first played AoE 2 when I was a kid, 6 or 7. I did play 1 and 3, but AoE 2 is the only game where I had any sort of community involvement. I am not excited about AoE 4. I don’t have any hopes for it.
You have a Youtube channel and stream sometimes. Do you want to introduce those?
My YouTube is a nice place to go if you want to learn about RM scripting in general. There’s not much entertainment or community value there, it’s basically just for learning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk9...BC1m1xj1__xRoOri8G5&ab_channel=MikeHasselbach
I’ve lived in Michigan, USA my whole life. It’s a nice place. If anything, it would be nice to live in a place with more food/fun within walking distance. If I want to go anywhere or do anything, I have to drive there.
What’s your favourite
I like mostaccioli. I cook it once every two weeks or so.
What would you put on top of a pizza?
Pepperoni, ham, sausage, bacon. Not opposed to pineapple either.
Which languages can you speak and which would you like to learn?
I only speak English. I took two years of Spanish class in high school. It came to me more naturally than some others. At the time, my teacher offered to help me skip the intermediate class and go straight to the advanced, but I wanted to take a programming class instead. I might not have gotten into RM scripting if I hadn’t done that. Who knows?
Which countries have you visited and where would you like to go? Why?
Outside of the US, I’ve only been to Canada. I’d like to visit Italy or Japan one day. Not really sure why. They just seem nice.
Below are a couple of pictures I took up in Northern Michigan, including Harbor Springs, Manistee, and Mackinac.
Dunno, not really a people person.
What is your favourite civilisation, map and unit?
I like the Chinese civ. Mediterranean as the favorite “original” map. Maybe Kamayuk for a unit.
Can you explain why Mediterranean?
It just has a really classic AoE vibe to it. You can see pretty much everything the game has to offer.
What is your favourite in-game sound?
With the original game sounds, scorpions have the most satisfying sound, both selecting and the attack sound.
Which addition to AoE II: DE (compared to Voobly/HD versions) do you like the most and the least?
Just in general, all the map scripting features.
What is the funniest thing you have experienced because of AoE II?
The first map I made was Atoll, that was in the fall of 2012. 2012 was the year I discovered that AoE 2 had a community. I was browsing the internet and stumbled across the Forgotten Empires expansion that was still just a mod. I thought it was cool that they were able to add additional maps to the game, and that got me interested in scripting. I was 17 at the time.
Can you explain your map scripting style a bit? From my point of view it is a less detailed and very clear style that makes it easy to understand and adjust your map scripts. It is for example very different from the way Chrazini now creates his maps.
I started scripting at a time when it wasn’t possible to do the super fancy things we are able to do now. My scripting style is kind of old-school if you want to call it that. I bring in newer features that I can fit into that framework easily, like making resources avoid forests. But I’ve never felt a need to re-think the basics. What I’ve done up to this point has worked well enough for me so far.
Do you usually have a concept and/or name before you start making a new map, like "I want to represent this geographic feature, this place, etc." or do you more often just try and then name it afterwards?
It’s only a handful of times where the map is based on a geographic feature. Most of the time I design a map around the way I want it to feel (both in gameplay and aesthetics), and think of a name afterward. Coming up with a name for a map can sometimes be the hardest part.
Does your regular work/education prepare you for the type of problem solving you do in map creation?
I would almost say it’s the opposite. The only formal programming training I’ve ever had was two semesters in high school. And to an extent that’s what I do for a living. RM scripting gave me a pretty strong foundation just for developing debugging skills. There were a lot fewer scripting resources back when I started compared to now. Back then, if I wanted to figure something out about RMS, I had to learn it for myself. That’s kind of what it’s like at my work. If I don’t know something, it’s never the case where someone else knows the full answer. I have to figure it out on my own.
Can you tell us something about MadLands, which you created?
It’s a versatile map-making utility with many features. Creating patterns of many individual lands, randomizing land positions across a fixed path, creating/managing map packs, and generating and formatting map icons. You need to know a thing or two about RM scripting in order to appreciate it.
What is your favourite map you ever created?
Hard to choose. My taste in maps changes over time.
Maybe then your favourite map you created in 2021 and 2020 respectively?
Crescent is a nice hybrid map. Chutes is good for a land map. I also like City Siege and Texcoco for the creative/artistic value. They aren’t as enjoyable since the AI doesn’t take advantage of what makes them unique. I find I like pure water maps a lot less now than I used to.
Crescent:
Chutes:
Crescent and Chutes were never featured in any tournament, right? I have to have a look at them again - I have looked at all of your maps several times, but since it is so many, I sometimes forget how they look when just reading the name. And about water maps, I feel like many people have said similar things. Do you think it has to do with fire galleys and demolition rafts? Just galleys were maybe not better games, but a) more fun to watch, and b) required more multitasking and speed in the Feudal Age.
I think generally the balance changes made to water-gameplay are overall good. More specifically, I enjoy the fact that team islands, for example, has more of a “landing meta”. I think the reason people like water maps less nowadays is that the game in general has become more fast-paced. We see that a tournament series usually contains fewer games than it may have in previous years and tournaments are contained in much less calendar time. Also, tournaments nowadays push Empire Wars for an even faster start. Back in the day, if a water game ended up dragging on for a long time, that just felt normal. People were used to it. Not so much now.
Which of your maps was the first one to be featured in a tournament? When?
The 2014 SY Nations Cup was the first tournament to feature my maps. There were a couple in there. Cross, Pond Arena, Sahara, Atoll, Chaos Pit, maybe some others.
Do you always create your maps with the intention that they can be played on all skill levels, or do you sometimes just create some for fun which have a good concept, but are not balanced for competitive play?
I would say the number one priority is my own personal enjoyment. I can’t really expect other people to enjoy my maps if I don’t enjoy them myself. But other times I try to just take advantage of some cool thing I learned or an idea I had to make a map, but even in those cases I try to make it balanced and competitive. I don’t like to intentionally make maps unbalanced for the sake of variety/randomness.
While scripting, what was your most unexpected, surprising experience?
In my entire life, I never expected that I would enjoy talking about something extensively. But making YouTube videos explaining RMS is something that I really enjoy. Though, it just feels like an exhaustive topic sometimes. There’s only so much I can teach people before I start to become repetitive, or start scraping the bottom of the barrel for things that aren’t really practical, and lose motivation.
Did you ever create a map with a certain intention, just to find out the map is played entirely different?
I suppose back when I made Cross (Four Lakes) I never expected it to offer a lot in 1v1. I was thinking about team game situations, how teams use the corners to trade, and how removing the corners for trade would force teams to adapt.
So Cross (Four Lakes) has been added to the official standard maps list. How do you feel about that and how did it actually happen? If you are allowed to share it - how was the communication with Microsoft/Forgotten Empires about that? Were any other of your maps added to the map pool?
Cross (Four Lakes) is the only one of mine currently in the game. When that happened, I was surprised and a little upset at the time. There was no communication from MS/FE. I don’t think it was widely known at the time that I made the map in the first place. But basically, I was upset that they copied the map, changed the name, and made it seem like a “new map”. After a while though, I figured it was better that the map gets more use rather than less use. FE is better at crediting original creators now, but you have to open the RMS file in order to see, and no one checks that.
What is still missing the most in AoE DE regarding map scripting?
I do not like the DE map selection interface at all. Having maps in a list format I feel is better than having things in a tile format. At minimum, a search function could be added.
Also, the time it takes to generate maps in DE is much longer than what it took in the original game. If something could be done to improve that, it would be a welcome change.
There are also a bunch of more technical things that would be nice, but generally there’s a lot currently that can be done in RMS, and I’m happy about that.
Can you mention one of those more technical things that you wish was added?
A better way to incorporate team positions into direct placement maps. Right now the only way restricts the colors teams are allowed to pick.
Allow RMS effects to be applied to Gaia if you set gaia civilization (Currently not allowed).
Togglable gaia convertibility. The ability to convert a gaia building to the nearest player is currently hard-coded to Battle Royale. It would be nice to have an attribute to control that for any map.
Civ-specific RMS effects. Technically possible with xs, but it’s kind of a pain to attach a separate file to a map, and xs behaves differently depending on the game’s starting conditions. RMS effects are just easier to use and more intuitive in my opinion.
Have you done anything similar in any other game (Map scripting, modding)? If AoE IV replaces AoE II as the most popular Age of Empires game, do you think you will move to scripting AoE IV maps?
No, not really, AoE 2 is my game. I haven’t really thought much about AoE 4. I don’t really see anything replacing AoE 2. But I could be wrong.
Although, besides random maps, I’ve had a few other things I’ve worked on that I never published or am not super known for.
Back in 2014 I added African and Indonesian civs into the game:
I did some terrain mods back in the day, which now seem a bit trivial, but back then I could not find a single guide for modding terrains:
Also one time I tried modeling some huge trees to put into the game to represent Giant Sequoias and Coast Redwoods. These images were what I was able to accomplish in about a week. They looked decent enough, but they were completely impractical for gameplay. You couldn’t walk a villager around the map without clicking a tree because the hitbox was so huge, 11. I never really thought much about this since the first few times I tried it in-game, but this concept could kind of work if the trees were scaled down a bit, and be Boreal equivalents to Baobab and Acacia forests. It’s kind of a pity that sparse forest options in the game are very limited:
I really like the idea of the big trees, although you are right that they are a bit too big, maybe 1/3-1/4 of the size would do. In general, I would like if more different vegetation and wildlife (and maybe even more terrains) were added. The African Kingdoms and Rise of Rajas added some, but since then there was very little. It of course is some work, but as it won't affect gameplay, it would not require much testing and FE could just collaborate with modders or take some things from AoE III or AoM.
I have now extensively worked with you for Double Cup 1/2, the World Desert Championship and also had help for some maps for the 2020 AOElympics or just in general my maps. Further, I know that you have largely contributed to Nova’s Terra Nova and Nacho’s King of America 2. You also have submitted maps to map contests like the SY Nations Cups, War is Coming, etc. How would you generally evaluate your involvement in tournament map packs and then seeing top players play your maps in front of 1000s of viewers?
I take opportunities to be involved when I can. I’m not the most active person in the community, so sometimes I feel like my work, or my potential, can go unnoticed by tournament organizers. I don’t really mind that so much though. Map-making for my own purposes can sometimes be even more rewarding than doing work for a tournament. I have more creative freedom there, and more opportunity to think outside the box. It’s good to have a balance.
I have noticed that several maps of you let players start with 4 outposts around their base. Is this a typical idea by you? How do you think it makes those maps better?
I don’t do that super often. Sometimes it’s just to change things up a bit, sometimes a map doesn’t start with a good scout unit, so the outposts help there. I don’t really think too much about it.
Do you have an opinion about how many maps should be in 1v1 or TG tournament map pools? In the past, in the first years of your scripting career, we had huge map packs with sometimes up to 70 different maps that either could be chosen as home maps or were randomly generated in a map pack script. Now it’s usually around 10. I [Huehuecoyotl22] have tried to find a balance to both guarantee to represent most different aspects of the games and also showcase the work of various map scripters, resulting in map packs of ~20-30 maps. I know that some players play so many tournaments that they don’t want to invest much time in studying new maps, but if most of the maps are not new, just known or slightly altered versions (e. g. a known map now with 2 tcs), there is not that much need for preparation and viewers get much more variety.
Well, from a scripting perspective, I can imagine that it would be a lot harder nowadays to include many maps in a tournament, of a great variety, and from many different scripters. Before Userpatch or DE gave way to new RMS features, there were only so many ways to do a thing in a map. You could generally take a map made by someone else and be able to read what’s going on without a problem. Now, with so many more new features comes so many more different ways to make maps. This is not to mention the fact that there are so many more people who are capable of making maps nowadays.
From a tournament organization perspective, it makes a lot of sense to keep everything narrowed down to a single scripter. A single scripter can do a better job of keeping everything standardized and keeping true to a single vision or theme for a tournament. This has pros and cons though. I feel it leads tournament organizers, and the community in general, to put more emphasis on scripters instead of maps. For every good map that gets featured in a tournament, there are probably three in Mad Random that have the same potential, but they’ll never get added into a major tournament because I’m not so widely known. It can be discouraging. And tournaments can get stuck with the same style of map, which in some opinions can be good, but I like to think people enjoy variety too. On the other hand, when we try to do something that involves a lot more people, like WDC, we get conflicting visions. There were certainly maps there that I didn’t agree with, and I didn’t get the feeling like I do for some other tournaments that players really took it seriously. Whether that’s because people are used to higher prize pools than we saw there, or people found the maps to be a bit un-serious and uncompetitive, I don’t know.
I know that doesn’t really answer the question directly, but it’s a complicated question. It requires a balance.
We could discuss this more in detail, but in summary, every person has maps (s)he likes or doesn't like, that includes map scripters and players.
And how serious players take maps, depends on many factors, in how many other tournaments they play, but definitely also on the money. If a top player earns more from a common showmatch or even streaming ladder games than from getting #3-4 in a tournament, they are likely to be less prepared. If I did not allow POV streaming for WDC, many top players probably would not have played. RBW also has new maps all the time, but it's much more money per player.
Which is the most important tip you would give someone who just started map scripting (apart from reading the guide)?
Try to focus on the big picture. No amount of fancy scripting techniques will ever turn a bad idea into a good map. And never be afraid to admit to yourself that you had a bad idea. Bad ideas can teach you a lot. And you can use the experience to make better maps.
Do you want to add any additional comments or questions?
Just thanks for the opportunity. Not just for the interview, but just in general for what you do for the community, and being a promoter of creativity.
Thank you for the interview and thank you for all of your contributions to the AoE 2 world in more than 9 years too.
Introduction:
Let’s first introduce yourself shortly. Who are you? How old are you and what do you usually do when you are not playing AoE II?My name is Mike. I’m 26. I like exercising (working out, running), the outdoors, and playing piano.
What does your username mean and why did you choose it?
CAD stands for Computer Aided Design. Back in school, I was involved in a robotics team. That was my role, 3D modeling/design, and I was proud of it. My profile pic is also based off of that team’s logo. That was important to me at the time I was getting into the AoE community.
People know you mostly as a map scripter, but how much of an AoE II player are you? How often do you play and at which level?
I played HD a little back in 2013-2014. It was pretty casual back then. I tried Voobly for a bit when I wanted more competition, but that didn’t last very long. When DE was in a beta, and after it first came out, I played multiplayer then, but that’s because so many of my maps were broken when DE was released. But after DE fixed some of its problems, and I learned what was needed to fix my maps, I now pretty much only play my maps now, just against the AI.
When did you play AoE II for the first time? Have you played AoE I/III? What are your hopes for AoE IV?
I first played AoE 2 when I was a kid, 6 or 7. I did play 1 and 3, but AoE 2 is the only game where I had any sort of community involvement. I am not excited about AoE 4. I don’t have any hopes for it.
You have a Youtube channel and stream sometimes. Do you want to introduce those?
My YouTube is a nice place to go if you want to learn about RM scripting in general. There’s not much entertainment or community value there, it’s basically just for learning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk9...BC1m1xj1__xRoOri8G5&ab_channel=MikeHasselbach
Private Life:
Which country/city do you come from? Where would you like to live?I’ve lived in Michigan, USA my whole life. It’s a nice place. If anything, it would be nice to live in a place with more food/fun within walking distance. If I want to go anywhere or do anything, I have to drive there.
What’s your favourite
- Food and drink? Something with pasta, can be beef, chicken, shrimp. Water for a drink.
- Animal? Wolf.
- Place? Northern Michigan
- Colour? Red
I like mostaccioli. I cook it once every two weeks or so.
What would you put on top of a pizza?
Pepperoni, ham, sausage, bacon. Not opposed to pineapple either.
Which languages can you speak and which would you like to learn?
I only speak English. I took two years of Spanish class in high school. It came to me more naturally than some others. At the time, my teacher offered to help me skip the intermediate class and go straight to the advanced, but I wanted to take a programming class instead. I might not have gotten into RM scripting if I hadn’t done that. Who knows?
Which countries have you visited and where would you like to go? Why?
Outside of the US, I’ve only been to Canada. I’d like to visit Italy or Japan one day. Not really sure why. They just seem nice.
Below are a couple of pictures I took up in Northern Michigan, including Harbor Springs, Manistee, and Mackinac.
More AoE-related questions:
Who would you like to meet once, who you have not met? One AoE player and one other person.Dunno, not really a people person.
What is your favourite civilisation, map and unit?
I like the Chinese civ. Mediterranean as the favorite “original” map. Maybe Kamayuk for a unit.
Can you explain why Mediterranean?
It just has a really classic AoE vibe to it. You can see pretty much everything the game has to offer.
What is your favourite in-game sound?
With the original game sounds, scorpions have the most satisfying sound, both selecting and the attack sound.
Which addition to AoE II: DE (compared to Voobly/HD versions) do you like the most and the least?
Just in general, all the map scripting features.
What is the funniest thing you have experienced because of AoE II?
Maps and Map Scripting:
When did you create your first random map script?The first map I made was Atoll, that was in the fall of 2012. 2012 was the year I discovered that AoE 2 had a community. I was browsing the internet and stumbled across the Forgotten Empires expansion that was still just a mod. I thought it was cool that they were able to add additional maps to the game, and that got me interested in scripting. I was 17 at the time.
Can you explain your map scripting style a bit? From my point of view it is a less detailed and very clear style that makes it easy to understand and adjust your map scripts. It is for example very different from the way Chrazini now creates his maps.
I started scripting at a time when it wasn’t possible to do the super fancy things we are able to do now. My scripting style is kind of old-school if you want to call it that. I bring in newer features that I can fit into that framework easily, like making resources avoid forests. But I’ve never felt a need to re-think the basics. What I’ve done up to this point has worked well enough for me so far.
Do you usually have a concept and/or name before you start making a new map, like "I want to represent this geographic feature, this place, etc." or do you more often just try and then name it afterwards?
It’s only a handful of times where the map is based on a geographic feature. Most of the time I design a map around the way I want it to feel (both in gameplay and aesthetics), and think of a name afterward. Coming up with a name for a map can sometimes be the hardest part.
Does your regular work/education prepare you for the type of problem solving you do in map creation?
I would almost say it’s the opposite. The only formal programming training I’ve ever had was two semesters in high school. And to an extent that’s what I do for a living. RM scripting gave me a pretty strong foundation just for developing debugging skills. There were a lot fewer scripting resources back when I started compared to now. Back then, if I wanted to figure something out about RMS, I had to learn it for myself. That’s kind of what it’s like at my work. If I don’t know something, it’s never the case where someone else knows the full answer. I have to figure it out on my own.
Can you tell us something about MadLands, which you created?
It’s a versatile map-making utility with many features. Creating patterns of many individual lands, randomizing land positions across a fixed path, creating/managing map packs, and generating and formatting map icons. You need to know a thing or two about RM scripting in order to appreciate it.
What is your favourite map you ever created?
Hard to choose. My taste in maps changes over time.
Maybe then your favourite map you created in 2021 and 2020 respectively?
Crescent is a nice hybrid map. Chutes is good for a land map. I also like City Siege and Texcoco for the creative/artistic value. They aren’t as enjoyable since the AI doesn’t take advantage of what makes them unique. I find I like pure water maps a lot less now than I used to.
Crescent:
Chutes:
Crescent and Chutes were never featured in any tournament, right? I have to have a look at them again - I have looked at all of your maps several times, but since it is so many, I sometimes forget how they look when just reading the name. And about water maps, I feel like many people have said similar things. Do you think it has to do with fire galleys and demolition rafts? Just galleys were maybe not better games, but a) more fun to watch, and b) required more multitasking and speed in the Feudal Age.
I think generally the balance changes made to water-gameplay are overall good. More specifically, I enjoy the fact that team islands, for example, has more of a “landing meta”. I think the reason people like water maps less nowadays is that the game in general has become more fast-paced. We see that a tournament series usually contains fewer games than it may have in previous years and tournaments are contained in much less calendar time. Also, tournaments nowadays push Empire Wars for an even faster start. Back in the day, if a water game ended up dragging on for a long time, that just felt normal. People were used to it. Not so much now.
Which of your maps was the first one to be featured in a tournament? When?
The 2014 SY Nations Cup was the first tournament to feature my maps. There were a couple in there. Cross, Pond Arena, Sahara, Atoll, Chaos Pit, maybe some others.
Do you always create your maps with the intention that they can be played on all skill levels, or do you sometimes just create some for fun which have a good concept, but are not balanced for competitive play?
I would say the number one priority is my own personal enjoyment. I can’t really expect other people to enjoy my maps if I don’t enjoy them myself. But other times I try to just take advantage of some cool thing I learned or an idea I had to make a map, but even in those cases I try to make it balanced and competitive. I don’t like to intentionally make maps unbalanced for the sake of variety/randomness.
While scripting, what was your most unexpected, surprising experience?
In my entire life, I never expected that I would enjoy talking about something extensively. But making YouTube videos explaining RMS is something that I really enjoy. Though, it just feels like an exhaustive topic sometimes. There’s only so much I can teach people before I start to become repetitive, or start scraping the bottom of the barrel for things that aren’t really practical, and lose motivation.
Did you ever create a map with a certain intention, just to find out the map is played entirely different?
I suppose back when I made Cross (Four Lakes) I never expected it to offer a lot in 1v1. I was thinking about team game situations, how teams use the corners to trade, and how removing the corners for trade would force teams to adapt.
So Cross (Four Lakes) has been added to the official standard maps list. How do you feel about that and how did it actually happen? If you are allowed to share it - how was the communication with Microsoft/Forgotten Empires about that? Were any other of your maps added to the map pool?
Cross (Four Lakes) is the only one of mine currently in the game. When that happened, I was surprised and a little upset at the time. There was no communication from MS/FE. I don’t think it was widely known at the time that I made the map in the first place. But basically, I was upset that they copied the map, changed the name, and made it seem like a “new map”. After a while though, I figured it was better that the map gets more use rather than less use. FE is better at crediting original creators now, but you have to open the RMS file in order to see, and no one checks that.
What is still missing the most in AoE DE regarding map scripting?
I do not like the DE map selection interface at all. Having maps in a list format I feel is better than having things in a tile format. At minimum, a search function could be added.
Also, the time it takes to generate maps in DE is much longer than what it took in the original game. If something could be done to improve that, it would be a welcome change.
There are also a bunch of more technical things that would be nice, but generally there’s a lot currently that can be done in RMS, and I’m happy about that.
Can you mention one of those more technical things that you wish was added?
A better way to incorporate team positions into direct placement maps. Right now the only way restricts the colors teams are allowed to pick.
Allow RMS effects to be applied to Gaia if you set gaia civilization (Currently not allowed).
Togglable gaia convertibility. The ability to convert a gaia building to the nearest player is currently hard-coded to Battle Royale. It would be nice to have an attribute to control that for any map.
Civ-specific RMS effects. Technically possible with xs, but it’s kind of a pain to attach a separate file to a map, and xs behaves differently depending on the game’s starting conditions. RMS effects are just easier to use and more intuitive in my opinion.
Have you done anything similar in any other game (Map scripting, modding)? If AoE IV replaces AoE II as the most popular Age of Empires game, do you think you will move to scripting AoE IV maps?
No, not really, AoE 2 is my game. I haven’t really thought much about AoE 4. I don’t really see anything replacing AoE 2. But I could be wrong.
Although, besides random maps, I’ve had a few other things I’ve worked on that I never published or am not super known for.
Back in 2014 I added African and Indonesian civs into the game:
I did some terrain mods back in the day, which now seem a bit trivial, but back then I could not find a single guide for modding terrains:
Also one time I tried modeling some huge trees to put into the game to represent Giant Sequoias and Coast Redwoods. These images were what I was able to accomplish in about a week. They looked decent enough, but they were completely impractical for gameplay. You couldn’t walk a villager around the map without clicking a tree because the hitbox was so huge, 11. I never really thought much about this since the first few times I tried it in-game, but this concept could kind of work if the trees were scaled down a bit, and be Boreal equivalents to Baobab and Acacia forests. It’s kind of a pity that sparse forest options in the game are very limited:
I really like the idea of the big trees, although you are right that they are a bit too big, maybe 1/3-1/4 of the size would do. In general, I would like if more different vegetation and wildlife (and maybe even more terrains) were added. The African Kingdoms and Rise of Rajas added some, but since then there was very little. It of course is some work, but as it won't affect gameplay, it would not require much testing and FE could just collaborate with modders or take some things from AoE III or AoM.
I have now extensively worked with you for Double Cup 1/2, the World Desert Championship and also had help for some maps for the 2020 AOElympics or just in general my maps. Further, I know that you have largely contributed to Nova’s Terra Nova and Nacho’s King of America 2. You also have submitted maps to map contests like the SY Nations Cups, War is Coming, etc. How would you generally evaluate your involvement in tournament map packs and then seeing top players play your maps in front of 1000s of viewers?
I take opportunities to be involved when I can. I’m not the most active person in the community, so sometimes I feel like my work, or my potential, can go unnoticed by tournament organizers. I don’t really mind that so much though. Map-making for my own purposes can sometimes be even more rewarding than doing work for a tournament. I have more creative freedom there, and more opportunity to think outside the box. It’s good to have a balance.
I have noticed that several maps of you let players start with 4 outposts around their base. Is this a typical idea by you? How do you think it makes those maps better?
I don’t do that super often. Sometimes it’s just to change things up a bit, sometimes a map doesn’t start with a good scout unit, so the outposts help there. I don’t really think too much about it.
Do you have an opinion about how many maps should be in 1v1 or TG tournament map pools? In the past, in the first years of your scripting career, we had huge map packs with sometimes up to 70 different maps that either could be chosen as home maps or were randomly generated in a map pack script. Now it’s usually around 10. I [Huehuecoyotl22] have tried to find a balance to both guarantee to represent most different aspects of the games and also showcase the work of various map scripters, resulting in map packs of ~20-30 maps. I know that some players play so many tournaments that they don’t want to invest much time in studying new maps, but if most of the maps are not new, just known or slightly altered versions (e. g. a known map now with 2 tcs), there is not that much need for preparation and viewers get much more variety.
Well, from a scripting perspective, I can imagine that it would be a lot harder nowadays to include many maps in a tournament, of a great variety, and from many different scripters. Before Userpatch or DE gave way to new RMS features, there were only so many ways to do a thing in a map. You could generally take a map made by someone else and be able to read what’s going on without a problem. Now, with so many more new features comes so many more different ways to make maps. This is not to mention the fact that there are so many more people who are capable of making maps nowadays.
From a tournament organization perspective, it makes a lot of sense to keep everything narrowed down to a single scripter. A single scripter can do a better job of keeping everything standardized and keeping true to a single vision or theme for a tournament. This has pros and cons though. I feel it leads tournament organizers, and the community in general, to put more emphasis on scripters instead of maps. For every good map that gets featured in a tournament, there are probably three in Mad Random that have the same potential, but they’ll never get added into a major tournament because I’m not so widely known. It can be discouraging. And tournaments can get stuck with the same style of map, which in some opinions can be good, but I like to think people enjoy variety too. On the other hand, when we try to do something that involves a lot more people, like WDC, we get conflicting visions. There were certainly maps there that I didn’t agree with, and I didn’t get the feeling like I do for some other tournaments that players really took it seriously. Whether that’s because people are used to higher prize pools than we saw there, or people found the maps to be a bit un-serious and uncompetitive, I don’t know.
I know that doesn’t really answer the question directly, but it’s a complicated question. It requires a balance.
We could discuss this more in detail, but in summary, every person has maps (s)he likes or doesn't like, that includes map scripters and players.
And how serious players take maps, depends on many factors, in how many other tournaments they play, but definitely also on the money. If a top player earns more from a common showmatch or even streaming ladder games than from getting #3-4 in a tournament, they are likely to be less prepared. If I did not allow POV streaming for WDC, many top players probably would not have played. RBW also has new maps all the time, but it's much more money per player.
Which is the most important tip you would give someone who just started map scripting (apart from reading the guide)?
Try to focus on the big picture. No amount of fancy scripting techniques will ever turn a bad idea into a good map. And never be afraid to admit to yourself that you had a bad idea. Bad ideas can teach you a lot. And you can use the experience to make better maps.
Do you want to add any additional comments or questions?
Just thanks for the opportunity. Not just for the interview, but just in general for what you do for the community, and being a promoter of creativity.
Thank you for the interview and thank you for all of your contributions to the AoE 2 world in more than 9 years too.
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