Idea to nerf pallisade gates

Norwaybuddy__1

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2016
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#1
Make them two tiles and maybe cheaper.

220px-Museumdorf_Düppel2.JPG

Who says the pallisade gates has to look like the stone gates? Pallisade gates are more primitive, its not even realistic to build this giant entrance for a simple wooden entrance to your village.

Is it technically possible to make a 2 tile entrance?

Some of the quickwalls at the moment are almost getting ridiculous, so if you wanna do that at least invest some stone to it lol.
 
Oct 13, 2017
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takethebluepill
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#2
4 tile gates already mess up pathing and cause clutter tho. What really needs a nerf is the quick walling. Imo, just make it such that foundations can be walked over
 
Likes: OctagonalD
Mar 10, 2018
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#5
4 tile gates already mess up pathing and cause clutter tho. What really needs a nerf is the quick walling. Imo, just make it such that foundations can be walked over
And what if someone enters a foundation while you build it? does it get stopped, so that enemy scout can easely delay e.g. your baracks or couple knights camp on a castle foudation to allow the rest of the army to kill the vills that cant rush it up anymore?
Or do the units get stuck when the building is finshed, so you can protect your own archers e.g. inside a house?
Or do they get teleportet out what would feel really strange und would probably result in some situations where troops get portet through walls/forrests.
So does not seem ideal to me.

I think if you are going that route you should make unfinished buildings take even more damage, or make a started wall/gate sit at 2 hp for a little bit at the beging of the building process so it can get denied if units are around.
 

Unknownorangereaper

Active Member
Aug 21, 2014
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#9
Remove palisade gates really.

Some games (even at top level) is just won due to fast gating, trappng and all that BS.

It's fun, impressive to watch but after few times it just gets tiresome and dry.
AOE is/should be about ecnomic and military might. Yes throw in some micro like archers against mangos, or kts vs monks etc.

Right now (IMO), palisade gates are too OP, provide easy/time-efficient way to keep enemy at bay make 2-3 counter units and turn that game. (e.g. 2 spears vs 4-5 scouts, with villagers safely walled-in).
 

GermanyKing_Marv

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May 27, 2016
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#14
It’s 30 wood for one and they break really easy.

Before people quickwalled with houses or stone gates. The quick walling doesn’t change and it’s not needed to change. Also towers are fine.

The fact that they were used in 50% of the games is ok. You see also archers in 50% of the games and knights in almost 100%. Doesn’t mean they are op just because they get used .
 

Unknownorangereaper

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Aug 21, 2014
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#15
It’s 30 wood for one and they break really easy.

Before people quickwalled with houses or stone gates. The quick walling doesn’t change and it’s not needed to change. Also towers are fine.

The fact that they were used in 50% of the games is ok. You see also archers in 50% of the games and knights in almost 100%. Doesn’t mean they are op just because they get used .
Compeltely Disagree.

1. Palisade is 4 tiles and single action
vs. house 2 tiles and needs 2 action. Moreover when 2 houses are being hit by militias, you need to repair both the houses so either you have 2 vills busy OR sometime you mess-up repairing one of the houses and enemy gets in.

This is even worse (from defender POV) with 4 individual palisades.

2. Cost is not an issue here AT ALL.
Firstly you would rather lose 100w than 1 vill
Secondly, you mostly get most of the wood back.

3. Quick walling has most impact late dark and early feudal.
And not having p-gates gives aggresor the initiative.
I would rather see more feudal fights than just safe walling and pushing all the games/fights into castle.

4. How many games in KOTD2 or NAC2 had prolonged feudal wars and even feudal war outcome?

I don't disparage the players for towering, walling, palisading. The game has to evolve ....
 
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Argentina___Black___

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#17
i think the palisade gate is fine, in fact you can break it much faster than a single palisade, since u have more space to put more army and because of that it can be broken more easy
 
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United Statesguitarizt

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#19
The game is going to become less about army and more about civil engineering and gates, walls, and tower placement. The best sim city players will become the best aoe players. They'll have to nerf it to make palisade gates unusable, but walls, houses, and towers are still way too strong.
 
Jan 13, 2019
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#20
Quickwalling is a part of the game, and it's going to continue to be. Quickwalls, and gates as an extension, have almost certainly changed the outcome of games. With how pivotal they can be in stopping scouts from shredding a woodline, or in stopping drushes from causing too much idle, I don't thing there will be wide support in removing palisade gates.

Now, balancing them in a manner of increasing wood cost, that might work out better. Not sure what the exact cost of gates would need to be, but it's an option that I'd say would go better than removing palisade gates entirely.
 

MexicoSouFire

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Mar 11, 2011
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#21
Palisade gates are only strong vs drush or few villagers vs other kind of army they melt so fast, maybe moving them to feudal age, instead of having them from the beginning.
 
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Czech RepublicCZ_Mango

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#22
For me palisade gates are one of the best features in WK. I really hated all those games in aoc where you had no entrance to your base and the solution was just to delete and rebuild houses or palisades. Palisade gates per se are very useful and nice feature. The quick walling abuse is a different issue which could be dealt with by no refund cost for walls in general. So yes you can quick wall but when you delete it, the res are spent and gone. Anyways is it even technically possible? @scripter64 or other devs
 

Unknownscripter64

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May 22, 2011
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#23
I don't think there's an existing dat flag to simply block the building cancellation refund. The refund occurs if the cost entry (wood, in this case) exists with the "paid" flag set. Trirem or Jine may have more information.

One alternative might be to set the root gate foundations to only have like 10HP, so that as a gate is being built, its HP increases extremely slowly toward 10HP, making it very vulnerable. Even a few archers would be able to break through almost instantly. After the foundation is completely built, the gate should automatically switch from the foundation HP to the full, standard HP. Whether this is a good idea, though... lol

This change can be made using the following rms effects, so it could be tested without changing the WK balance directly, etc. A modified KotD2 Arabia is attached as an example.
#const STONE_GATE_1 487
#const STONE_GATE_2 490
#const STONE_GATE_3 665
#const STONE_GATE_4 673
#const PALISADE_GATE_1 792
#const PALISADE_GATE_2 796
#const PALISADE_GATE_3 800
#const PALISADE_GATE_4 804

effect_amount SET_ATTRIBUTE STONE_GATE_1 ATTR_HITPOINTS 10
effect_amount SET_ATTRIBUTE STONE_GATE_2 ATTR_HITPOINTS 10
effect_amount SET_ATTRIBUTE STONE_GATE_3 ATTR_HITPOINTS 10
effect_amount SET_ATTRIBUTE STONE_GATE_4 ATTR_HITPOINTS 10
effect_amount SET_ATTRIBUTE PALISADE_GATE_1 ATTR_HITPOINTS 10
effect_amount SET_ATTRIBUTE PALISADE_GATE_2 ATTR_HITPOINTS 10
effect_amount SET_ATTRIBUTE PALISADE_GATE_3 ATTR_HITPOINTS 10
effect_amount SET_ATTRIBUTE PALISADE_GATE_4 ATTR_HITPOINTS 10
 

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FranceTriRem

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Dec 13, 2015
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#24
I don't think there's an existing dat flag to simply block the building cancellation refund. The refund occurs if the cost entry (wood, in this case) exists with the "paid" flag set. Trirem or Jine may have more information.
There is actually, by playing around with resource storage. By setting the the "paid" flag to 0, the resource is required but not paid, therefore not refunded. So you have a building that requires you to have 20 wood but doesn't cost anything (and won't return anything if cancelled).
If you add a resource storage of -20 wood with a store mode of 1 (gives, even after death), the building will take you 20 wood once placed and never give them back.

So in the end we have a building that requires you to have 20w, costs 20w to be placed and won't give back anything when cancelled. Data magic can go a long way 11. Untitled.png
 

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