Discussion - NAC2 Play-Offs Grand Finals

What do you think the score will be?


  • Total voters
    119
  • Poll closed .

Netherlandsnimanoe

Knight
Bronze Supporter
Jan 15, 2014
2,210
1,637
138
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#1
Will be played on Sunday 17 February at 13:00 GMT on Twitch.tv/Nili_AoE
Who do you think will win this Grand Final?

Best of 5 on the following maps:
Game 1: Arabia
Game 2: Map pick TaToH
Game 3: Map pick TheViper
Game 4: Map pick TheViper
Game 5: Map pick TaToH
Game 6: Map pick TaToH
Game 7: Map pick TheViper
Game 8: Map pick TheViper
Game 9: Map pick TaToH
Game 10: Map pick TaToH
Game 11: Map pick TheViper
Game 12: Map pick TheViper
Game 13: Arabia

Players will be able to globally pick 14 civs and then ban 1 civ of the picked civs from the opponent
Draft

TaToH 0-0 TheViper

Brackets
 
Feb 17, 2019
6
14
18
Hamburg
#4
I really hope TaToH can make it somewhat competitive. Generally i feel like he does bring some basic strengths you need against Viper. He's good at drafting, very good at strategies and can play equally well on different map types. I feel like a lot of other top players are missing at least 1-2 of these 3 things you need to compete with the Snek. However Tati won't have a shot if he just plays the general meta game. You can see what happens when you play like that against Viper, when you watch most series against Liereyy. I think you need to go outside the box if you want to have a chance. That's probably one reason why MbL has done well against Viper, though not the only one of course. I think Tati is creative (and prepared) enough to come up with some interesting stuff but i'd still be shocked if it would be enough to make it really close. That said, i guess 7-3 Viper is the most probable outcome.
 
Nov 5, 2018
41
53
23
#5
A lot but not all of the nac2 maps are ecl maps as well. In the first round casting by Memb and jordan Jordan mentioned that vipers draft was right out of the team secret spreadsheet.

I would worry that a lot of tatoh's preparations I known by Viper nullifying his potential advantages.
 

Finlandkalkkaro

Active Member
Aug 25, 2017
52
107
38
#6
If Viper goes totally undeated in the playoffs (0-5, 0-5, 0-7) that fact would itself be such an achievement to remember for years to come. Total domination at its finest.
 
Likes: nimanoe

Finlandbuhanisson

Longswordman
May 29, 2015
374
947
108
#7
Yeah, I dont think theres anything tatoh can do to surprise Viper. But hopefully he can get a bit lucky on some the early maps and catch that first win early on, to increase his motivation and to make it at least competitive. I dont see Tatoh winning more than 2 games, but maybe if he gets enough doritos.
 
Feb 17, 2019
6
14
18
Hamburg
#8
man, if Viper is sharp, you need so many things to happen at the same time to have a real shot in such a lng series. better maps, better civ picks, absolute A game for yourself, perfect strategies. and even then you might still lose. if those things don't happen, you just don't have a chance right now.
 

Germanymungo__

Known Member
Dec 13, 2018
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aoe-elo.com
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#9
man, if Viper is sharp, you need so many things to happen at the same time to have a real shot in such a lng series. better maps, better civ picks, absolute A game for yourself, perfect strategies. and even then you might still lose. if those things don't happen, you just don't have a chance right now.
Must be also be a bit depressing starting a BO13 with 5k so close. You know you will not feel good after the series because it wont be even remotely even.
 
Mar 28, 2018
47
45
23
#10
Well, I think, as teammates, it is hard for TatoH to do any surprising tactics as they normally would share their thoughts on maps and civs. Makes it even more difficult to beat a better player...
Fun (and a little scary) fact: if viper sweeps he would be 30:4 on the tournament. Thats nearly 90% winrate
 
Feb 17, 2019
20
25
8
#11
Does anyone still believe that Viper played seriously vs. MbL and that he wouldn't absolutely dominate him now?

Why is it so hard to accept for people that Viper is just on another level atm and that if he loses it's often because he doesn't try his hardest?

Instead people always try to find all kinds of excuses, oh, Viper has such good maps, oh his drafts are so much better, oh MbL is his kryptonite, if only he was in the final (btw: MbL lost against Liereyy and Tatoh and Viper absolutely wrecked both Liereyy and Tatoh), oh people are just afraid of Viper (he won Hidden Cup, too).
 
Likes: George_M

ChileBowserlord

Known Member
Jul 18, 2018
84
152
48
#12
oh this pure clueless aoe2 community...

It has nothing to do with draft, maps, civs etc... (this is aboslut fine and fun)
Viper is the better player, nothing more to say. Now plz stop showing everyone your frustration and low IQ as well.
 
Feb 17, 2019
20
25
8
#15
People are making it seem as if there was a close struggle for the top with Viper just barely edging it out, only winning due to small differences or even luck, when it's more like TheViper.......Liereyy..Yo..MbL/Tatoh.....most others.
 

United StatesAlphaAndOmega

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Jan 30, 2015
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#16
People are making it seem as if there was a close struggle for the top with Viper just barely edging it out, only winning due to small differences or even luck, when it's more like TheViper.......Liereyy..Yo..MbL/Tatoh.....most others.
Anyone can beat the viper there. They are just not as consistent and creative in general. Liereyy could do it if he melded with the crazy tatitoh haha. Tatoh is strong now, I really believe he could win. But money is definitely on the greedy snake. Snake is stealing all the prize money lately.
 
May 7, 2010
137
89
38
#17
Anyone can beat the viper there. They are just not as consistent and creative in general. Liereyy could do it if he melded with the crazy tatitoh haha. Tatoh is strong now, I really believe he could win. But money is definitely on the greedy snake. Snake is stealing all the prize money lately.
*For the past years
 

Germanydodageka

Longswordman
Feb 13, 2018
756
1,243
108
#18
Anyone can beat the viper there. They are just not as consistent and creative in general. Liereyy could do it if he melded with the crazy tatitoh haha. Tatoh is strong now, I really believe he could win. But money is definitely on the greedy snake. Snake is stealing all the prize money lately.
All of those players can take a game from viper, and maybe even a shorter series, but at the moment there simply isn’t anyone who can take long series from him/consistently take games
 
Oct 24, 2018
3
19
8
#20
The thing about Viper is that he doesn't really "throws" games, doesn't play "hard enough", or is just doing "fantasy plays" when he loses... Be it at tournaments or rated games. He's always looking into new strategies and see how they work, sometimes setting up the meta by accident.

Two years ago everybody hated Koreans, and everyone trashed the civ and nobody picked it. Then comes Viper while he himself hating the civ, gets it at random picks plays on anyways and ends up setting up his MasterPizzeria, delivering masterpieces left and right and all off the sudden "Koreans are OP".

Then the same happened with Harambai and Gbetos. Now it's happening with turtle ships, heavy scorpions and Organ guns. Those were units people considered trash, and people rarely played them because it didn't fit the meta. Viper plays them for "fun" but ends up discovering their full potential and ends up using that strategy effectively in tournaments (see his Khmer play vs Daut, or his portuguese game vs Liereyy in NAC2).

This is to me what makes Viper so successful overall. He seems to get better when he loses, because he learns more from the defeats and then turns them into massive victories.
 

FranceTriRem

Longswordman
Dec 13, 2015
331
1,222
108
22
France
#21
The thing about Viper is that he doesn't really "throws" games, doesn't play "hard enough", or is just doing "fantasy plays" when he loses... Be it at tournaments or rated games. He's always looking into new strategies and see how they work, sometimes setting up the meta by accident.

Two years ago everybody hated Koreans, and everyone trashed the civ and nobody picked it. Then comes Viper while he himself hating the civ, gets it at random picks plays on anyways and ends up setting up his MasterPizzeria, delivering masterpieces left and right and all off the sudden "Koreans are OP".

Then the same happened with Harambai and Gbetos. Now it's happening with turtle ships, heavy scorpions and Organ guns. Those were units people considered trash, and people rarely played them because it didn't fit the meta. Viper plays them for "fun" but ends up discovering their full potential and ends up using that strategy effectively in tournaments (see his Khmer play vs Daut, or his portuguese game vs Liereyy in NAC2).

This is to me what makes Viper so successful overall. He seems to get better when he loses, because he learns more from the defeats and then turns them into massive victories.
I mean of course, it was Viper who discovered that Koreans were OP, he also discovered Arambai were OP, Franks are actually good. He basically invented the new meta. Viper is the only creative mind in the pro scene and all the players are just sheep following his mighty lead.
 
Oct 27, 2012
100
20
18
#23
Two years ago everybody hated Koreans, and everyone trashed the civ and nobody picked it. Then comes Viper while he himself hating the civ, gets it at random picks plays on anyways and ends up setting up his MasterPizzeria, delivering masterpieces left and right and all off the sudden "Koreans are OP"
2 years ago wk came and that a stone gathering bonus, faster tower building bonus and free guardtower upgrade combined with weaker buildings and slower builded walls translates good into a trush strat does not need a genius to discover. pls stop embarrassing urself.
 

Unknown_Andrew

Longswordman
Jan 2, 2013
2,203
591
113
29
#24
I mean of course, it was Viper who discovered that Koreans were OP, he also discovered Arambai were OP, Franks are actually good. He basically invented the new meta. Viper is the only creative mind in the pro scene and all the players are just sheep following his mighty lead.
He seems like the type who's only exposure to the community is Viper's stream.
 
Likes: Modri
Oct 24, 2018
3
19
8
#25
Actually no, I usually follow T90s and Nili's streams, and in the examples I gave it's pretty accurate how it evolved, there are other cases (slav farms as an example) that didn't came from Viper streams, but where you can clearly see where Viper's game play influenced the meta, you can think whatever you want but there's a reason he has been dominating the 1v1 scene for years, and it doesn't give a shit about your opinion.
 

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