D
Guest
Mongols weren't a great Arena civ in AoC. To be a good Arena civ, you need either good Monks or a good unique unit. Mongols had neither, since the Mangudai was lackluster in castle age, having 10 frame delay just like the standard Cavalry Archer, making it much harder to micro. In the expansions, however, Mangudai have only 5 frame delay in castle age, the same as the Crossbowman, and for better comparison, the Camel Archer.
You might think "Camel Archers are better!" but Mangudai actually aren't very far behind, contrary to popular belief.
Camel Archers have 7 attack whereas Mangudai have 6 attack. This is almost entirely offset by the higher attack speed of the Mangudai which only has a 1.68 second reload time as opposed to the Camel Archer's longer 2 second reload time.
You might think "attack damage is more important than rate of fire!" but that's only true against units like Knights which have good pierce armor. Against Monks (the most common Arena unit), Mangudai actually kill them faster than Camel Archers do overall.
Mangudai also have +3 attack vs siege meaning that they kill Mangonels way faster than Camel Archers.
Mangudai move at 1.45 tiles per second, Camel Archers at only 1.4 tiles/second. Mangudai move faster. Enough said
Mangudai have 60 base HP. Camel Archers only have 55 base HP.
Camel Archers have 1 base pierce armor, whereas Mangudai only have 0, meaning that Camel Archers are indeed better against archers. However, they take the same damage from Town Centers, because Camel Archers are classed as camels and therefore take +1 bonus damage, cancelling out the 1 pierce armor.
Camel Archers cost 50 wood and 60 gold, and take 21 seconds to create. Mangudai are more expensive at 55 wood and 65 gold, and take a longer 26 seconds to create. Definitely an advantage for the Camel Archer here, however keep in mind that the creation time isn't a massive factor here because it's early castle age after a fast castle and therefore your economy will be weaker and you won't have masses of resources to spam a unit, so cost is much more important than creation time.
Also, another factor is that Camel Archers deal bonus damage to each other. That means that when a Monk converts a Camel Archer, this converted one will attack your own Camel Archers and deal bonus damage, meaning you will take more free damage when you're trying to snipe some Monks and you get converted some. Mangudai do not suffer from this issue.
Bold statement, but Mangudai are better than Camel Archers against Monks + Mangonels (mainly because they counter Mangonels). And monks+mangos is the most common army on Arena in the castle age.
Not only that, but Mongols have a superior economy bonus. 50% faster hunting gives the Mongols a big head start in a fast castle, much bigger than the Berbers' 10% faster moving villagers (which is a very small economy bonus). Granted, Berbers will have a superior castle drop because their vills will move faster to go and build the forward castle, but most early castles are built in your own base because it's much safer.
I don't really understand why Mongols aren't picked more often on Arena. They seem just as good as Berbers, apart from specifically in the matchup against Berbers (where the Berbers dominate because camel arch have bonus vs mangs).
You might think "Camel Archers are better!" but Mangudai actually aren't very far behind, contrary to popular belief.
Camel Archers have 7 attack whereas Mangudai have 6 attack. This is almost entirely offset by the higher attack speed of the Mangudai which only has a 1.68 second reload time as opposed to the Camel Archer's longer 2 second reload time.
You might think "attack damage is more important than rate of fire!" but that's only true against units like Knights which have good pierce armor. Against Monks (the most common Arena unit), Mangudai actually kill them faster than Camel Archers do overall.
Mangudai also have +3 attack vs siege meaning that they kill Mangonels way faster than Camel Archers.
Mangudai move at 1.45 tiles per second, Camel Archers at only 1.4 tiles/second. Mangudai move faster. Enough said
Mangudai have 60 base HP. Camel Archers only have 55 base HP.
Camel Archers have 1 base pierce armor, whereas Mangudai only have 0, meaning that Camel Archers are indeed better against archers. However, they take the same damage from Town Centers, because Camel Archers are classed as camels and therefore take +1 bonus damage, cancelling out the 1 pierce armor.
Camel Archers cost 50 wood and 60 gold, and take 21 seconds to create. Mangudai are more expensive at 55 wood and 65 gold, and take a longer 26 seconds to create. Definitely an advantage for the Camel Archer here, however keep in mind that the creation time isn't a massive factor here because it's early castle age after a fast castle and therefore your economy will be weaker and you won't have masses of resources to spam a unit, so cost is much more important than creation time.
Also, another factor is that Camel Archers deal bonus damage to each other. That means that when a Monk converts a Camel Archer, this converted one will attack your own Camel Archers and deal bonus damage, meaning you will take more free damage when you're trying to snipe some Monks and you get converted some. Mangudai do not suffer from this issue.
Bold statement, but Mangudai are better than Camel Archers against Monks + Mangonels (mainly because they counter Mangonels). And monks+mangos is the most common army on Arena in the castle age.
Not only that, but Mongols have a superior economy bonus. 50% faster hunting gives the Mongols a big head start in a fast castle, much bigger than the Berbers' 10% faster moving villagers (which is a very small economy bonus). Granted, Berbers will have a superior castle drop because their vills will move faster to go and build the forward castle, but most early castles are built in your own base because it's much safer.
I don't really understand why Mongols aren't picked more often on Arena. They seem just as good as Berbers, apart from specifically in the matchup against Berbers (where the Berbers dominate because camel arch have bonus vs mangs).