Biggest AOE 2 DE PUP changes

[hellhammer]

Hi to all the new PUP (Biggest one by far) is here!

BIGGEST AOE2 PATCH EVER!! Review of 70+ Balance Changes!

The Patchening is upon us!How to access PUP: https://steamcommunity.com/app/813780/discussions/20/3829788562450700761/Changes List is too long for the descri...

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All credits to Ornlu

 

[Davion]

Ugh, the pros performed so badly with Hindustanis in nac and devs left it alone

 

[Tuunbaq]

Ornlu:

Full list of changes:

General: Eagle Scout, Eagle Warrior, and Elite Eagle Warrior cost increased from 20 food and 50 gold → 25 food and 50 gold

General: Long Swordsman upgrade research time decreased from 45 seconds → 40 seconds

General: Two-Handed Swordsman upgrade research time decreased from 75 seconds → 60 seconds

General: Champion upgrade research time decreased from 100 seconds → 85 seconds

General: Pikeman upgrade research time decreased from 45 → 35 seconds

General: Pikeman upgrade cost decreased from 215 food and 90 gold → 160 food and 90 gold

General: Supplies research time decreased from 35 seconds → 20 seconds

General: New technology: Gambesons --- Militia-Line +1 Pierce Armor

Available: Aztecs, Bengalis, Bulgarians, Burmese, Byzantines, Celts, Dravidians, Franks, Japanese, Koreans, Malay, Persians, Portuguese, Saracens, Sicilians, Slavs, Spanish, Teutons, Vikings

Not Available: Berbers, Bohemians, Britons, Burgundians, Chinese, Cumans, Ethiopians, Goths, Gurjaras, Hindustanis, Huns, Incas, Italians, Khmer, Lithuanians, Magyars, Malians, Mayans, Mongols, Poles, Tatars, Turks, Vietnamese

General: Elite Steppe Lancer Pierce Armor increased from 1 → 2

General: Heavy Scorpion upgrade cost decreased from 1000 food and 1100 wood → 800 food and 900 wood

General: Sappers upgrade cost changed from 400 food and 200 gold → 400 food and 200 wood

General: Sappers upgrade now also adds +3 bonus damage vs rams for villagers

General: (Elite) Elephant Archer train time decreased from 34 seconds → 30 seconds

General: Elite Elephant Archer upgrade cost reduced from 1000 food and 800 gold → 800 wood and 500 gold

General: Siege Elephant upgrade cost increased from 650 food → 850 food

General: Cannon Galleon Adjustments:

(Elite) Cannon Galleon damage increased from 35 (45) → 50 (60)

(Elite) Cannon Galleon bonus damage vs Infantry, Archer, Cavalry and Mamelukes decreased → 0

(Elite) Cannon Galleon bonus damage vs Siege decreased from 40 → 25

(Elite) Cannon Galleon Blast radius increased to 0 → 0.25 (0.3)

Aztecs: Receive Gambesons

Bengalis: New Bonus - Melee Cavalry gain +2 bonus damage vs skirmishers

Bengalis: Mahayana effect now also applies to monks

Bengalis: Gain Supplies, Receive Gambesons

Berbers: Villager movespeed bonus adjusted to 5% in dark age and 10% in feudal age

Bohemians: Hussite Reforms research cost reduced from 800 food and 450 gold → 500 food and 450 gold

Britons: Team Bonus decreased from 20% → 10%

Bulgarians: Receive Gambesons

Burgundians: Flemish Militia cost decreased from 60 food and 25 gold → 50 food and 15 gold

Burgundians: Flemish Militia production after researching Flemish Revolution moved from Town Center to Barracks

Burgundians: Flemish Militia health decreased from 75 → 60

Burgundians: Flemish Militia damage decreased from 12 → 11

Burgundians: Flemish Militia pierce armor decreased from 1 → 0

Burgundians: Flemish Revolution cost changed from 1200 food and 650 gold → 200 food +10 food per villager converted and 150 gold +5 gold per villager converted

Burmese: Elite Arambai upgrade cost adjusted to 1100 food and 675 gold → 1000 food and 750 gold

Burmese: Receive Gambesons

Byzantine: Greek Fire now additionally provides 5 splash damage to bombard towers

Byzantine: Receive Gambesons

Celts: Stronghold effect increased from 25% → 33% attack speed to towers and castles

Celts: Stronghold now additionally heals allied infantry near castles by 30 HP per minute

Celts: Receive Gambesons

Chinese: Start changed from +3 villagers and -200 food → +2 villagers and -150 food

Dravidians: New Bonus: Siege units cost -33% wood

Dravidians: Receive Gambesons

Ethiopians: Team bonus effect changed from towers and outposts +3 line of sight → outposts +3 line of sight and stone cost removed

Ethiopians: Royal Heirs effect changed from Shotels trained 100% faster to Shotels and Camels receive -3 damage from Cavalry

Ethiopians: Elite Shotel train time decreased from 8 seconds → 4 seconds

Franks: Receive Gambesons

Goths: New Bonus: Hunt lasts 20% longer

Gurjaras: Kshatriyas cost increased from 200 food and 400 gold → 500 food and 450 gold

Gurjaras: (Elite) Shrivamsha cost increased from 70f 20g → 70f 30g

Gurjaras: (Elite) Shrivamsha reload time increased from 1.75 → 2.0

Huns: Atheism cost decreased from 500 food and 500 gold → 500 food and 300 wood

Incas: Andean sling now additionally gives slingers +1 damage

Incas: New Bonus: Military units cost -15/20/25/30% food in Dark/Feudal/Castle/Imperial

Incas: Lose access to supplies

Incas: (Elite) Kamayuk cost increased from 60 food and 30 gold → 65 food and 30 gold

Incas: Slinger cost increased from 30 food and 40 gold → 40 food and 40 gold

Incas: Team Bonus effect changed from Spearman and Skirmisher +2 line of sight → Start with a free Llama

Japanese: Now have access to hoardings

Japanese: Kataparuto cost reduced from 750 wood and 400 gold → 550 wood and 300 gold

Japanese: Receive Gambesons

Khmer: Ballista Elephant elephant armor changed from -2 → 0, cavalry armor from -2 → 0, siege armor from -2 → 0

Khmer: Ballista Elephant gain Hussite wagon armor with a value of +20

Koreans: Elite Turtle ship range increased from 6 → 7

Koreans: Receive Gambesons

Lithuanians: Bonus for starting with 150 food changed to each town center provides 100 food

Malay: New Bonus: Receive infantry armor upgrades for free

Malay: Receive Gambesons

Malians: Gbeto (Elite) health increased from 35 (45) → 40 (50)

Malians: Malians 30% longer lasting gold changed to villagers drop off 15% more gold

Malians: Tigui extra arrows increased from 5 → 8

Persians: Receive Gambesons

Poles: Villager regeneration now starts in feudal age

Portuguese: (Elite) Organ Gun damage 16 → 7 (20 → 9)

secondary damage changed from 2 flat to same as main projectile

Portuguese: (Elite) Organ Gun total projectiles 5 (5) → 6 (7)

Portuguese: (Elite) Organ Gun accuracy 50% → 0%

Portuguese: (Elite) Organ Gun attack dispersion 0.75 → 0.25

Portuguese: (Elite) Organ Gun Bonus vs Infantry 0 → 1

Portuguese: Elite Organ Gun Bonus vs Buildings 0 → 1

Portuguese: Elite Caravel upgrade cost adjusted from 750 food and 475 gold → 700 food and 525 gold

Portuguese: Receive Gambesons

Saracens: Zealotry cost reduced from 500 food and 450 gold → 400 food and 400 gold

Saracens: Receive Gambesons

Sicilians: Castles and Town centers built 100% faster changed to Castle build 50% and Town Centers build 100% faster

Sicilians: Donjon affected by hoardings

Sicilians: Donjon can now train spearman

Sicilians: Donjon now functions as a prerequisite for archery range and stable

Sicilians: First Crusade effect reduced from 7 → 5 serjeants per Town Center

Sicilians: First crusade cost adjusted from 300 food and 600 gold → 400 food and 300 gold

Sicilians: Serjeant hp increased from 45 → 50 in Feudal Age

Sicilians: Serjeant hp increased from 65 → 75 in Castle Age

Sicilians: Serjeant Elite upgrade cost reduced from 1100 food and 800 gold → 800 food and 675 gold

Sicilians: Serjeant build/repair 25% slower in Feudal Age

Sicilians: Receive Gambesons

Sicilians: 100 extra starting stone is received after completing the first Town Center

Slavs: Boyar cost adjusted from 50 food and 80 gold → 60 food and 70 gold

Slavs: Druzhina cost reduced from 1200 food and 500 gold → 900 food and 500 gold

Slavs: Receive Gambesons

Slavs: Free Supplies bonus also includes Gambesons

Spanish: Inquisition also gives missionaries +1 range

Spanish: Conquistador -1 Pierce Armor (Elite Unchanged)

Spanish: New Bonus: Gain 20 gold for each technology researched

Spanish: Receive Gambesons

Tatars: Keshik train time increased from 16 (14) → 17 (15)

Turks: Artillery cost increased from 450 wood 500 gold → 600 food 650 gold

Teutons: Receive Gambesons

Vietnamese: Paper Money cost reduced from 600 wood and 350 gold → 550 food and 200 wood

Vikings: Chieftains effect now also provides infantry with gold generation while attacking villagers, trade units, and monks. This is in addition to infantry gain bonus damage vs cavalry

5g per villager, 20g for Monks and Trade units

Vikings: Chieftains cost reduced from 700 food and 500 gold → 600 food and 450 gold

Vikings: Berserkergang replaced with Bogsveigar (650 food and 500 gold): Archer-line and Longboats +1 Attack

Vikings: (Elite) Berserk healing increased from 20 hp per minute → 40 HP per minute

Vikings: Elite Longboats Bonus vs Ships 11 → 10, vs buildings 8 → 7

Vikings: Receive Gambesons

 

[SaladEsc]

Lots of changes, maybe some not entirely necessary, but I do like the Viking, inca and goth changes in particular - and the nerf to Flemish revolution ofc

 

[SouFire]

Can't wait to see people complaining about champ line being too oppressive, 6 PA is no joke, specially for all those civs that already had a bonus on that line, while you can make the argument that HC counters infantry, you need almost 6 minutes btw imperial age and chemistry so GL.

Mayans and aztecs got a huge nerf for them, specially considering how bad aztecs are now outside arena, the way to play mesos civs and adjusting the economy will be hurt cause that 5 food is 25% so it ain't a small nerf and don't pretend like if aztecs or mayans are top civs in 2023.

Vikings will rise as a top 1 civ again, their champs already beat battle eles so you guys figure it out the impact.

 

[uberkerl]

Ugh, the pros performed so badly with Hindustanis in nac and devs left it alone

do you have an idea how long balance changes are usually in the works?

 

[vesnoimorskoi]

So they clearly refuse to follow the principle "nerf overperforming civs and buff underpeforming"

 

[StefanoValentini]

All the devs care about is nerfing Sicilians to hell

 

[Pancrol]

More than 70 changes and only 6 that made me raise eyebrows about how to implement them. Nice.

 

[Kroc]

Sicilians: Donjon now functions as a prerequisite for archery range and stable

isn't this the biggest nerf for sicilians from all the changes listed?

 

[Snizl]

isn't this the biggest nerf for sicilians from all the changes listed?

I think the word you were looking for is "buff".

In general what i see going on here is kind of the same that happened in league of legends for the past decade or so. New civs get more and more bonuses, with longer lines of text explaining how everything works and each individual bonus actually being 3 bonuses...
Its not necessarily a power creep, but just looking at bengalis now... so much added.

 

[Obelix]

Need Spirit of the Law video to judge the Organ Gun changes

 

[uberkerl]

isn't this the biggest nerf for sicilians from all the changes listed?

it isnt required to have e Donjon but you can now build one instead of a barracks.


This was abig patch with mostly infantry buffs I am still waiting to some techtree nerfs for Poles why the heck do they get Bracer and Gunpowder.

 

[Kroc]

it isnt required to have e Donjon but you can now build one instead of a barracks.


This was abig patch with mostly infantry buffs I am still waiting to some techtree nerfs for Poles why the heck do they get Bracer and Gunpowder.

yeah I was thinking you needed barracks and donjon. like you are saying is a buff indeed.

 

[HongeyKong]

WTF is this Chinese change?

 

[midnigh7]

Can't wait to see every game being played like it's goths mirror. Not gonna happen in this patch, but we are slowly moving in that direction.

 

[Paint]

Making goths better will make low Elo play even less fun. Other then that the patch doesn't actually change all that much that is relevant in most games.

 

[Instinctz]

So about what i thought on the supposed Infantry front.
a bunch of little love, that will help them see more use, but nothing game breaking or a complete overhaul.

 

[Lokalo]

WTF is this Chinese change?

Not sure how they will be affected at high level, but they needed a lil change, having +2vill and cheaper techs is just busted. Also the idea that it makes easier for lower elo is nice too, as chinese had the biggest difference in win rate between low and high level players.

 

[Money4President]

wauw its almost a new game! when they fix the pathin! all these balance nonsense but you cant make units walk normal!

 

[Paint]

The new Goth hunting bonus would have been good for Magyars.

 

[Influenza]

Who in their right mind wants a complete overhaul of all civs in a 23 year old game. And every patch no matter what you have to readjust to a new set of bugs and new unit behavior. No one values consistency anymore lul

 

[Snizl]

Not sure how they will be affected at high level, but they needed a lil change, having +2vill and cheaper techs is just busted. Also the idea that it makes easier for lower elo is nice too, as chinese had the biggest difference in win rate between low and high level players.

It doesn't make it easier for low elo. It is a defacto tiny nerf, because you collect 25 seconds of vil time less ressources (so about 10 res), but it nerfs them for maps where you immediately collect a lot of food, like when starting with a fishing ship or similar.

 

[Ariota]

I'm still sad for the TURKS. No little buff, and their trash units in imp (not counting the scout-line) is so underwhelming. They really should receive the elite skirm upgrade in the imperial age, so this way they would be still stuck with regular skirms in the castle age, but could deal a little bit better vs strong arba/HCA civs in imp (absolutely needed for such a gold heavy civ).

INFANTRY received a much needed love, and this will force players to stone wall better, but man, champions with 6 pierce armor is no joke. That + supplies + arson = goodbye enemy castles and TCs if there no counter army around. CA will still be a good answer vs infantry in the castle age. Considering thumb ring didn't even exist in AOK, and that CAs are cheaper now, then this new pierce armor up for infantry is very welcome. The pike cost change is also very welcome. The food cost was too high, but goths shouldn't receive this discount IMO.

MESO CIVS: the 2 big problems for them in open maps is how slow eagle scouts are created (60s if I recall correctly) and those map generations with deer nearby. Scouts civs will push the deer, go for an early and strong scout rush, and then with scouts and skirms, the meso civs will struggle hard. They could do something with eagle scouts, but it's so slow to be trained, and the high mobility of scouts really lock in the meso civs' army into their bases.

 

[Crawsack]

Who in their right mind wants a complete overhaul of all civs in a 23 year old game. And every patch no matter what you have to readjust to a new set of bugs and new unit behavior. No one values consistency anymore lul

One of the highlights of my day is logging on to AoEZone and like clockwork, Influenza is complaining about the devs/balance/pathing/the game in general. I've never met someone who plays so much, who hates the game so much lmao.

I think this patch is absolutely fantastic. They did a great job making a lot of tweaks to units, upgrades, and civs. I don't agree with every single change, but I understand the logic with almost all of them.

The fact is, we've accepted for years that the militia line just gets shredded by all ranged units and we're OK with that. Why? A champion has 1/2 the HP of a cavalier, archers still will deal with them fine, they're just not going to be hard countered by arbalests. They never should have been. This will actually force Arb players to use a meatshield, what a concept!