I agree with most of thisPage 61, 40-improvements final list from AoFE 2.2 to AoF
(Because apparently people don't watch the successive updates of the list as they are buried pages before)
Had to remove some changes because Cysion said it, and regardless of our discords, he's kinda the father of AoFE, so guess I had to do some efforts.
- Persians 2x HP in Dark Age back again. Viva la ducha
- Huns and Mayans get Guilds again, I think still think it's slightly OP as Huns and Mayans are very good civs before Post-Imp (Huns pretty much from Dark Age till early-Imp, Mayans more Feudal to mid-Imp), plus historically it's very strange.
- Camels still Ships: if you still want Camels getting 100/40 damage by ungarrisoned Castle/Keeps and even garrisoned Town Centers (more 150-ish for a fully garrisoned Imperial TC), Indians will be doomed. But it's your choice to make Camels an unit that can't raid. Honestly, military units that can't raid are nearly non-existant. I call it Camel-racism but just my own view.
- Onagers for Britons once again so that Longbows with Thumb Ring can kill everything within a distance whereas onagers cover them to slay the remaining Skirmishers is now out again.
- Koreans Parthian Tactics removed for our little Halberdiers
- BUT you won't touch Slavic changes. They don't hurt a fly. It's totally STUPID that an infantry civ has to wait for Imperial to stand out, it's non-existant. At least with no Tracking but +3 LOS (similar to Celt +15% speed BUT no Squires), they will stand out. This is a very good bonus for Dark Age and early Feudal, where while Drushing we can see much better the environment of our Militia/MAA. And later in the game it's only one LOS more compared to other civilizations. It will be in, people asked for it.
Same for Slavic Fortified Walls, HUNS, GOTHS and PERSIANS don't get it for HISTORICAL ISSUES, three early Middle Ages civs. And SLAVS don't get a better boom or a better imperial than Vikings, Mayans, Aztecs whatsoever. Tested it the Farming bonus is almost unperceptible. And the +5 pop per Military bonus is so few to justify a Fortified Walls removal.
NO reason to remove their Fortified Walls apart from nerfing them pointlessly.
AoFE 2.2 to AoF list
You can go page 41, 38, 37, 35, 30 or even 22 to see if one improvement come from me or not, but around 70% of the changes don't came directly from me
AoC 1.0c to AoFE 2.2 list
For those who are not familiar yet with The Forgotten changes
DAT file, test the changes for real! Probably the most important point here
(DAT file path Microsoft Games\Age of Empires II\Games\Forgotten Empires\Data\empires2_x1_p1.dat, don't forget to save the original somewhere)
Have fun! :D
This is one of the things we tested early on in FE development. We never fully removed their building bonus, but experimented with an improved armor. They were completely OP. I remember FeAge playing Mayans, with a lot of xbows, 3 towers and a TC in his town. He was attacked by a big group of Camels. And they just didn't die. Not even the TC fire really killed it. Making them immune to building fire is simply OP. You would create an alternative to knights, which counters knights, making knights completely redundant when playing against a camel civ. As for Indians, they have good alternatives for raiding and fighting buildings. Just like the meso civs do, who lack a high pierce armor unit before imp as well.- Camels still Ships: if you still want Camels getting 100/40 damage by ungarrisoned Castle/Keeps and even garrisoned Town Centers (more 150-ish for a fully garrisoned Imperial TC), Indians will be doomed. But it's your choice to make Camels an unit that can't raid. Honestly, military units that can't raid are nearly non-existant. I call it Camel-racism but just my own view.
It's non-existent. Even in AoFE. Tracking kicks in once you get to Feudal. The net-gain would be +1 LOS, so I don't see the big fuzz.- BUT you won't touch Slavic changes. They don't hurt a fly. It's totally STUPID that an infantry civ has to wait for Imperial to stand out, it's non-existant.
No matter how I like people's enthusiasm for anything AoFE related, the final calls are still with the devs.It will be in, people asked for it.
Slavs are not getting fortified walls. Firstly, Vikings, Mayans, Aztecs are not post-imperial monsters. These civs are average at best in a gold-laden post imp fight. Mayans are of course, very decent, but fall short against good combos with BBT/SO/Palas. Especially since they have strong units from castle all the way to imp, it's not a "nerf", it's how it is. Cheaper siege is a monstrous bonus as well. Additionally, their post-imp army can consist out of spiced up infantry, a UU that beats most melee units (including Paladins) and a full, cheaper siege range (Bombards aside).Same for Slavic Fortified Walls, HUNS, GOTHS and PERSIANS don't get it for HISTORICAL ISSUES, three early Middle Ages civs. And SLAVS don't get a better boom or a better imperial than Vikings, Mayans, Aztecs whatsoever. Tested it the Farming bonus is almost unperceptible. And the +5 pop per Military bonus is so few to justify a Fortified Walls removal.
Alright I'll reedit 44, I was trying to counter balance the Camels vs Paladins when it comes to raiding. Cysion said if buildings were to have the bonus vs camel removed , camel civs would be prefer camels in raiding over knight-line so why not give Paladins a slight boost since the entire knight line should all at least have the same ROF and it should remian unchanged. Besides that +40 HP, +2 attack and +1 PA Paladin advantage costs 1300F 750G which is a lot compared to the Cavaliers which is a small 300F 300G which only gives +20 HP and +2 attack. Seems better than nerfing the entire knight line to have 1.9 ROF. Camel line probably need be given their own classification apart from ships to a new separate one(if possible) , maybe then it would be possible to reduce building's attack bonus vs camels which is a better alternative than removing the building's attack bonus vs camels all together. If not then forget 44 and 43."43. Paladin's ROF increased to that of Knights and Cavaliers (from 1.9 to 1.8)."
Really? Boosting Paladins to help balance? Paladins already have +40 HP, +2 attack and +1 PA compared to a Cavalier, 1.9 ROF is entirely justified.
And 44 is impossible if Camels are Ships. It's either zero extra damage or ship extra damage.
Even if we set 10 base pierce armor on Camels, the Towers, Castles...still do the exact same damage to Camels, tested it before.
But weren't camels supposed to be normal vs buildings?Even if you can't change it,at least nerf it.So much damage is crazy especially since there's no real-world basis for it.
@k1ng_of_kingz
Agree with all except changes 20 and 43
Champions aren't raiding units :P Raiding units are characterized by the ability to do damage to an economy and leave the stage early enough to avoid real confrontation. Hussars are a prime example, most cavalry is in fact. Eagles have the same characteristics. Most archers as well, either because of their speed or their hit and run abilities.@Cysion: for the Camel point, I could agree as Indians got a full Champion line and Hussars to raid, so it's not "crucial". But still Camels will be very situational which is bad.
That's exactly what I was saying, most infantry bonuses kick in in Feudal. And so does the free Tracking for Slavs.You're wrong for infantry can't stand out in Feudal: Viking (now) get +20% HP in Feudal; Gothic Infantry (now) cost -30% in Feudal and is created 20% faster, Japanese Infantry actually strikes 33% faster starting from Feudal, and a Celtic infantry which moves +15% faster than other Feudal infantry.
Spanish and Koreans are imperial power houses but have 0 eco bonus. Celts are indeed a good exception to the rule, but their castle age arsenal of units is pretty limited, compared to the Slavs.If you don't want to give Fortified Walls for reasons which seem to me insufficient (Celtic, Koreans, Spanish are real Imp powerhouses, and they get Fortified Walls), at least please get right from start the +3 LOS for Slavic Infantry.
I don't really see the need to edit all your posts, I don't think anyone is going to dig up posts from page 20-something :PNow I'm going to modify all my posts and DAT files to remove the Fortified Walls thing for Slavs if AoFE team is so few prone to let Slavs these Fortified Walls that a majority here seem to see no problem about.
I'll just state some important changes that are needed according to me:
1. Celts wood bonus nerfed to 12%, and possibly siege fire rate to 15% (at present it is 25% with proper maths).
2. Replace plum cost nerf with a nerf of whole mayan archer bonus to 10/15/20 %.
3. Crossbow upgrade costs 150,125.
4. Reduction in randomness + small nerf of monk conversion to account for fervor working, increased xbow up. (I was able to do this successfully in genie editor incase you are unable to find out how randomness is tackled)
5. M@A onwards 5% speed increase for sword-line.
6. Eagle -1 LOS before castle age.
7. Koreans get berry bonus, franks get another(fishing ship discount + small increase in knight HP.. 125HP).
8. Turks scouts +2 attack vs archer-line.
9. CA cost 40w 60g (adjust hun, and maybe mongol bonuses to prevent excessive power).
10. Aztec creation bonus to 0,5,10,15 dark to imp.