And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pick

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United StatesTocaraca

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#1
I'm laughing at the replies to this thread https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe2/comments/ ... s_magyars/ where lots said that Magyars would still not be a prime pick for 1v1 Arabia. And here they are now, being a top 10 pick for a massive AoE2 Arabia tournament. 11

This also brings me to a question; if people are going for cav archers as Magyars, even in the castle age where they have no immediate bonuses, then why aren't other civs like Saracens also making them? The consensus in AoC was that Cavalry Archers were too expensive and Crossbowmen would just be better, which made sense, and when the expansions reduced their cost, the consensus still didn't really change (except maybe for Mongols), however now that the Magyars are being played at a high level we're actually seeing them in castle age instead of Crossbowmen, despite the fact that they lack any castle age bonuses, so I'm wondering do you guys think the meta on CA will change with other civs that have acceptable CA (like Saracens, Japanese, and Indians)?
 

SpainPoxo

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#2
Re: And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pi

Maybe with those that don't have a good camel line and tend to have more action on castle age.

The point of going only 2 ranges xbow is because you can boom easily at the same time and aproach for 30+~ imp while you can't do it with 2/3 ranges CA.
 

United StatesTocaraca

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#3
Re: And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pi

Do you mean because CA are more expensive than Crossbowmen? Can't you just make less CA to make up for that (about 30% less to be approximate) yet still have a strong military (if I'm not mistaken, 7 CA can beat 10 Xbow)?
 

PeruHearttt

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Re: And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pi

That's not really true. Most games/in most match ups the optimal army composition will be knights and skirms. While CA would obviously be a better long term choice, a good opponent will most likely punish that decision enough to make it not worth it.
 

UnknownHunyadi

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#5
Re: And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pi

It's ironic that they buffed CA by making them cheaper and then go ahead and put all sorts of CA counters into the game: Camel Archer, Genitour, Inca Eagles, Imperial Camels, Arambai, Imperial Skirm.

One step forward, 2 steps back. :lol:
 

UnknownLanchi

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Re: And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pi

Magyars got 6 win, but at least two of them is due to big difference between player, and one of them due to facing Italians
beside this they got 10 lose...

Magyars' CA have nothing different until Imperial Age, but what bonus they got in Castle Age? zero

I agree with strong Feudal Age but seldom see they do enough damage there
some game (ex: Vinch vs Edie, Lyx vs TheMax) the opponent walled, and Magyars had nothing to do
 

United StatesTocaraca

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Re: And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pi

Heartt I'm guessing it's because you need Thumb Ring and Bloodlines for CA to be effective whereas Crossbowmen don't? Because other than that I don't see any disadvantages, and CA do better vs knights and skirms than Crossbowmen do based on my understanding.

Lanchi I disagree with your implication that Magyars aren't great. They're not top 5 but they seem at least top 15 or something.
 

UnknownLanchi

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Re: And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pi

I'm not saying that Magyars bad because KotD usually 11 civs playing so far
at bottom half of 11 still not bad in 31

from the title i know your opinion is they good enough anyway
 

United StatesOrnLu528

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#9
Re: And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pi

Well I said that they would be decent but not top-tier, and even after all the games so far I still stand by that opinion.

Magyars are solid, but not top tier. If we are accepting the KotD games as valid, you also need to point out that Magyars are 6/16 so far. They really haven't looked incredibly impressive.
 

NetherlandsiViktorius

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Re: And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pi

I think Magyars aren't a top 1v1 ara civ. They have 2 power moments; early feudal with the scout rush (which, admittedly, can be as deadly as anything goes, as proven by BacT vs xiaofan_: http://www.voobly.com/match/view/16794323) and in imp if they manage to keep a good number of ca alive (mediocre siege hurts a real push though).

As said before a scout rush can be very easily dettered by some good walling and some spears. So that just leaves the imp power. But how can you get their ahead of your opponent without a single eco bonus? I feel like Vikings (a water civ) should kill Magyars 9 out of 10 times. The same goes for many civs.

Gameplan vs Magyars: Defend vs the scouts, get that eco going, defend or push in castle age whatever your style is, be first in imp and kill with technology advantage or be in imp at the same time but with a much better eco and kill with number advantage.
 

Hungarymisafeco

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#11
Re: And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pi

Magyars are like the weaker version of Huns until Imp. They desperately need early (eco) bonus and/or another castle age bonus to be competitive against Arabia top civilizations (because they obviously suck on closed/water maps).
 
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Re: And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pi

everytime I have gameplans like that there is a hole in my defenses and the scouts come in. I fix the hole and then in I realise my woodlines are thin and in range of cav archers that soon surround my base.
 

Netherlandsnimanoe

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#13
Re: And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pi

Magyars are like the weaker version of Huns until Imp. They desperately need early (eco) bonus and/or another castle age bonus to be competitive against Arabia top civilizations (because they obviously suck on closed/water maps).
I don't see why they would need more buffs, there's a lot of other civs who would need buffs before Magyars are considered for another buff imo.

You also need to keep in mind that the best civs most likely will get some nerfs as well, which will boost the Magyars as well.
 

Hungarymisafeco

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#14
Re: And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pi

Magyars are like the weaker version of Huns until Imp. They desperately need early (eco) bonus and/or another castle age bonus to be competitive against Arabia top civilizations (because they obviously suck on closed/water maps).
I don't see why they would need more buffs, there's a lot of other civs who would need buffs before Magyars are considered for another buff imo.

You also need to keep in mind that the best civs most likely will get some nerfs as well, which will boost the Magyars as well.
What civs do you refer exactly?

I just hope for a bigger nerf regarding Eagles and a couple of UU nerf like Arambai, Camel Archer, Karambit etc.
 

Netherlandsnimanoe

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#15
Re: And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pi

civs who didn't get picked at all or only got picked a few times.

Some examples: Britons, Franks, Persians, Goths, Byzantines, Koreans, Portuguese, Chinese, Saracens, Japanese.

This is just from the top of my head so I probably missed some.
 

SpainSlaiter

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#16
Re: And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pi

Meta is still to be defined, it will take a lot of tests in match ups to come with stable matchups. Here we can do 2 things, starting nerfing / boosting everything to balance like in LoL or do only the bare minimum balances and let people find new matchups / countercivs like in Dota2

Those civs you mention that didn't pick up many times might not be because they are bad, but because they had a specific task to do or they were picked as counterciv
 

United StatesTocaraca

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Re: And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pi

Nimanoe are you sure Britons belong in there? I'm sure they were picked more than once?... maybe not, but they did dominate when they were used.

As for misafeco, I find it funny that you still want the Magyars to be buffed, despite the fact it has been a prime pick for this tourney 11

I agree with OrnLu that the civ is decent and well balanced. Winning 6/16 games isn't great but then again the fact they've even been picked by the pros many times shows a lot about the civ (can just barely compete with other top civs).
 

Hungarymisafeco

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#18
Re: And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pi

Nimanoe are you sure Britons belong in there? I'm sure they were picked more than once?... maybe not, but they did dominate when they were used.

As for misafeco, I find it funny that you still want the Magyars to be buffed, despite the fact it has been a prime pick for this tourney 11

I agree with OrnLu that the civ is decent and well balanced. Winning 6/16 games isn't great but then again the fact they've even been picked by the pros many times shows a lot about the civ (can just barely compete with other top civs).
Would you pick them on any other popular map other than Arabia? Balance is not just for only 1 map (or game mode).
 

United KingdomHyunAOP

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#19

UnknownLanchi

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Re: And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pi

civs who didn't get picked at all or only got picked a few times.

Some examples: Britons, Franks, Persians, Goths, Byzantines, Koreans, Portuguese, Chinese, Saracens, Japanese.

This is just from the top of my head so I probably missed some.
when you point out which civ in the list ppl start to discuss what about this what about that

you'd better ask them to see Rorarimbo States and don't say anything here 111111
 

Netherlandsnimanoe

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Re: And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pi

when you point out which civ in the list ppl start to discuss what about this what about that

you'd better ask them to see Rorarimbo States and don't say anything here 111111
1111 I've opened a can of worms

@Tocaroca first of all it's nimanoe, no capital N :wink:
Second, they've been picked a few times, but certainly less than Magyars and deserve a boost more than them imo (not saying they deserve a boost at all atm, but maybe somewhere down the line)

@Hyuna I thought you would be the first to agree that Vikings are already a top civ and don't deserve a boost :wink:
But you're right, they would fit in my list as well
 

United StatesTocaraca

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Re: And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pi

I don't think any civ apart from Vietnamese needs any boost at all. Even Goths can work on 1v1 Arabia, and so can Koreans, as Vinchester and TaToH respectively showed us in KotD. The game is remarkably balanced.
 

ArgentinaNicov

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Ireland_Melkor

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Re: And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pi

Khmer are trash. They at least need to get arbalest.
 

Netherlandsnimanoe

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Re: And people said that Magyars were still not a tourney pi

I don't think any civ apart from Vietnamese needs any boost at all. Even Goths can work on 1v1 Arabia, and so can Koreans, as Vinchester and TaToH respectively showed us in KotD. The game is remarkably balanced.
And Vietnamese can work as well, so following your logic (which is stupid, because every civ can win a game vs another civ, just due to having a better map) why would they need a buff?
 
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