Aftermath takes issue with Tournament Rule Enforcement (-$300) | MembTV's BOA3

[HongeyKong]

A Taiwanese youtuber with over 1M subs.

 

[Snizl]

A Taiwanese youtuber with over 1M subs.

Apart from the fact that obviously non Chinese people will not know about a Youtuber that does only produce Chinese spoken content, I clicked on his channel and could not find a single AoE video within the last year.

 

[HongeyKong]

Apart from the fact that obviously non Chinese people will not know about a Youtuber that does only produce Chinese spoken content, I clicked on his channel and could not find a single AoE video within the last year.

I mean he has aoe2 gameplay footage in his videos, is it not enough to be classified as aoe2 content creator?

EDIT: eg.

Spoiler

 

[Zbyszek]

I wonder what this world would be like if those whimps that always cry about people and telling them what they say or do would actually adhere to the moral standards that they expect from others.

 

[oozkan]

To be fair, I think I was fairly unbiased when I started it at 2.8, but it elevated rather quickly.

We are discussing with our staff how to better serve aoezone and evaluated better ways to evaluate ze drama rating for the future.

Well it managed to get reaction from MBL so that increases popularity a bit. Imagine the drama, if Nili reacted to AOE2 vs. AOE4 topic.

 

[Belgawizard]

Well it managed to get reaction from MBL so that increases popularity a bit. Imagine the drama, if Nili reacted to AOE2 vs. AOE4 topic.

That would have been a proper AoEzone worthy 9.3/10 drama

 

[Giuseppe551]

Wouldn't that have significantly lessened the drama? A main concern, and probably the source of most of the hate (or valid criticism, take your pick of words), back then was aoe2 being pushed aside for aoe4. We now know that's not really the case, but that could have been cleared up almost immediately if someone like Nili had actually engaged.

 

[Tendo]

Wouldn't that have significantly lessened the drama? A main concern, and probably the source of most of the hate (or valid criticism, take your pick of words), back then was aoe2 being pushed aside for aoe4. We now know that's not really the case, but that could have been cleared up almost immediately if someone like Nili had actually engaged.

That's almost always the answer to how drama/hate could have been avoided, if everyone just kept a cool head and discussed together in a civil manner.

 

[IYIyTh]

This is precisely why moderation is needed on these boards - topic has once again been completely led off course, some of it having its own distinct/existing 80+ page separate threads. Previously reported flames/outright baiting left undeleted. Certain users seem to be habitual off-topic posters, would be nice to see the issue addressed and/or their accounts dealt with accordingly. When people talk about moderation that is necessary on the boards -- this is the kind that is truly needed. Keep topics on track, remove the flames, spam, off-topic posts that derail threads.

 

[oozkan]

This is precisely why moderation is needed on these boards - topic has once again been completely led off course, some of it having its own distinct/existing 80+ page separate threads. Previously reported flames/outright baiting left undeleted. Certain users seem to be habitual off-topic posters, would be nice to see the issue addressed and/or their accounts dealt with accordingly. When people talk about moderation that is necessary on the boards -- this is the kind that is truly needed. Keep topics on track, remove the flames, spam, off-topic posts that derail threads.

Wasn't the thread about AM drama, last two pages were already about youtube viewers count already. I am not sure "comparing drama with other drama while you are scoring drama" is the real off-topic source here.

 

[lecracheursagacite]

Any exceptions in those last 2 pages?

Some yeah.

 

[Dusk2Dawn]

Wouldn't that have significantly lessened the drama? A main concern, and probably the source of most of the hate (or valid criticism, take your pick of words), back then was aoe2 being pushed aside for aoe4. We now know that's not really the case, but that could have been cleared up almost immediately if someone like Nili had actually engaged.

what are you talking about? not really the case?aoe2 was and still is pushed aside for aoe4; look at past and future prize pools differences/amount of time/number of viewers

 

[ninja14]

back then was aoe2 being pushed aside for aoe4. We now know that's not really the case

How so? A quick look at prize pools so far and future ones still point to same disproportionate allocation to aoe4

 

[Giuseppe551]

Fair enough, maybe I should have said abandoned rather than pushed aside. Clearly with $200,000 for Red Bull aoe2 hasn't been abandoned at least.

 

[Progeusz]

Well it's obvious that AoE 4 HAS TO have bigger prizepool in the Red Bull's huge collaborative anniversary event because it would just be bad PR if it was different, if newest game was below older one.

However if you look at the support games truly get... AoE 2 has so many different tournaments happening all the time, even a league, I'd say the scene is busier than AoE 4's. And Microsoft is a big part in many of those events. Financial support might technically be lower (i'm not sure, i think it's closer than people think) but support overall might be higher.

 

[ninja14]

Financial support might technically be lower (i'm not sure, i think it's closer than people think) but support overall might be higher.

If you remain hungry for a lot of days then your appetite adjusts accordingl and even 1/3 of your normal diet will make you feel full.

Since aoe4 release, aoe2 prize pools and consequently viewership have become significantly lower than what it used to be in 2020-21. Now we call 10k events as S-tier and are happy if a final of S-tier event reaches 15k. It seems people have resigned to this new reality.

aoe4 League : 125k
aoe2 League (platinum) : 17.5k

Even the aoe4 redbull qualifier is having 45k+ prize pool while none of aoe2 tournament has had anywhere close to that

 

[Progeusz]

That AoE 4 League happened earlier and was scheduled back when AoE 4 was more popular than AoE 2. Very unfair to use it as a comparison point. Meanwhile T90's League is already confirmed that it will run for multiple seasons. Also you're being misleading by only using a portion of the league instead of whole thing. Furthermore, the focus of both leagues is quite different. AoE 4's Golden League was supposed to be THE main event for AoE 4 for long months and nothing else was really happening for the game.
Meanwhile T90's league's goal is mainly supporting players outside of the very top and giving them realistic goals to work towards long-term and it coexists with multitude of other events happening at the same time.

 

[Springoftheking]

T90 Titans League and RMS Cup 2, which both was played mostly in July, had combined prize pool of over 40k $.

Reb Bull Wololoo has the biggest prize pool on the DE era. And 10K prize pool has always been S-Tier-category in AoE 2.

 

[ninja14]

That AoE 4 League happened earlier and was scheduled back when AoE 4 was more popular than AoE 2. Very unfair to use it as a comparison point. Meanwhile T90's League is already confirmed that it will run for multiple seasons. Also you're being misleading by only using a portion of the league instead of whole thing. Furthermore, the focus of both leagues is quite different. AoE 4's Golden League was supposed to be THE main event for AoE 4 for long months and nothing else was really happening for the game.
Meanwhile T90's league's goal is mainly supporting players outside of the very top and giving them realistic goals to work towards long-term and it coexists with multitude of other events happening at the same time.

The total prize pools for both games can speak for themselves.

aoe2 S-tier events in 2022: 310k

aoe4 S-tier events in 2022: 563k

The largest aoe2 event after 200k redbull is 30k BoA which was a 3v3 event

 

[Progeusz]

The total prize pools for both games can speak for themselves.

aoe2 S-tier events in 2022: 310k

aoe4 S-tier events in 2022: 563k

Why only S-tier?
Why can't you be fair and look at everything?
Anyway, 310k is still a lot. It's more than half of aoe4's. And in Red Bull aoe2 is getting 67% of aoe4. Very different from what you initially tried to maliciously paint as 125k vs 17.5k disparity.
With current trends, it's quite likely that the difference might grow smaller by the end of the year. You keep being intentionally misleading, refusing to look at whole picture, only focusing on what fits your narrative, ignoring everything else.

The largest aoe2 event after 200k redbull is 30k BoA which was a 3v3 event

Yeah but aoe2 has a lot more of those sub30k events than aoe4 does. And I honestly think it's much better design. Artificially pumping up single tournament won't help the scene as much as multiple lesser sized tournaments.

aoe2

Spoiler

vs aoe4

Spoiler

 

[Lokalo]

Thank you MBL for all the entertaiment you delivered over the years.
And that you always try to be yourself. That you keep your corners and edges. Even if people try to bent you, you won't let them.
Today people that work in publicity often tend to fake their behaviour to be seen adjusted and well mannerd - most of it is fake but you are just trying to be yourself with all that positiv or negativ aspects that life brings.

Offtopic: why you don't take the 300 bugs and make a small tournament out of it - Team "We love MBL" vs Team "OMG MBL is so disrespectful and unprofessional he should get spanked"
I would love to watch that. Imagen that ingame chat. Would fill aoezone with content for two weeks.

That's quite wrong in so many ways... Being yourself is great, although being an ass and feeling great is different thing. Saying truth that he didnt like aoe4 and so on is a nice thing, talking sh_t like memb took 300 into his pocket is just being a ret@rd mode. Ohh wait, i'm a cool guy now too, I'm telling what I'm thinking, hoooray, claps for me.

What I hate most about such aM behaviour, is that they so often troll and ban people for so troll reasons and talk trash a lot, but to same sh_t they do they react so badly. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching MBL and Hera they are great players, however often they do tons of dumb stuff and wants to be not taken seriously when themself ban and trashtalk everyone, sometimes it just feels weird how spoiled they are and they do not even realise that and last replies of MBL clearly invites for other admins to give more fines in the future 11

Edit: fixed the **** lol

 

[otw_Da]

That's quite wrong in so many ways... Being yourself is great, although being an ass and feeling great is different thing. Saying truth that he didnt like aoe4 and so on is a nice thing, talking **** like memb took 300 into his pocket is just being a ****** mode. Ohh wait, i'm a cool guy now too, I'm telling what I'm thinking, hoooray, claps for me.

What I hate most about such aM behaviour, is that they so often troll and ban people for so troll reasons and talk trash a lot, but to same **** they do they react so badly. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching MBL and Hera they are great players, however often they do tons of dumb stuff and wants to be not taken seriously when themself ban and trashtalk everyone, sometimes it just feels weird how spoiled they are and they do not even realise that and last replies of MBL clearly invites for other admins to give more fines in the future 11

I like to be wrong in many ways.... harrrrrr.... im a naughty boy ...
Maybe I shouldn't post that - I don't want to be the first aoezone sexoffender
But yolo

 

[ninja14]

Why only S-tier?
Why can't you be fair and look at everything?
Anyway, 310k is still a lot. It's more than half of aoe4's. And in Red Bull aoe2 is getting 67% of aoe4. Very different from what you initially tried to maliciously paint as 125k vs 17.5k disparity.
With current trends, it's quite likely that the difference might grow smaller by the end of the year. You keep being intentionally misleading, refusing to look at whole picture, only focusing on what fits your narrative, ignoring everything else.


Yeah but aoe2 has a lot more of those sub30k events than aoe4 does. And I honestly think it's much better design. Artificially pumping up single tournament won't help the scene as much as multiple lesser sized tournaments.

aoe2

Spoiler

View attachment 202186
View attachment 202187

vs aoe4

Spoiler

View attachment 202188
View attachment 202189

I did S-tier because I was adding these up manually on mobile and also I'm not sure if any pro (top 25) takes these <5k events seriously unelss it's a qualifier to a bigger event.

aoe2:

S +A : 362k
S : 310k
A : 52k

aoe4:

S+A : 578k
S : 563k
A : 15k

Even if you look at S+A the huge disparity still remains considering aoe4 player base like 1/3 of aoe2 and has been consistently declining. It's ok if MS wants to market heavily but the fact is that it is disproportionatal.

 

[Progeusz]

362/578 is ~65%
disparity is clear but i wouldn't call it huge, especially since the trend is going toward the difference growing smaller.

It's perfectly logical that aoe4 would receive more, being a new game. I don't know why are you trying to insist there's some huge problem with it. It would be really weird if aoe4 didn't have more prize money pumped into it during its early months (remember, the game isn't even 1 year old yet!). During early months it was actually very popular which definitely affected decisions to keep prize pools high. Soon after it lost most of its playerbase but plans were already there, you can't just cancel this stuff after a month or two. No point perpetually being angry about what was most likely decided 9 months ago. Pay more attention to what's happening currently, observe how the situation develops, look at what's planned for both games in upcoming months. That's the real sign of how the support is spread out.
And no, don't look at Red Bull, that one was decided a year ago. Look at everything else.

 

[ninja14]

362/578 is ~65%
disparity is clear but i wouldn't call it huge

I’m glad we agree on the facts, obviously your interpretation of the facts is different to mine. aoe2 having 2.5-3x players and only getting 65% of prizepool is huge disparity in my view.

Rest of your post is how you are subjectively justifying all this to yourself and you are entitled to have an opinion.

I doubt a Hidden Cup will happen this year and also I doubt Kotd5 (if it happens) will have a prizepool of 75k based on trends this year.