About Rating (tips by kkab)

[BugA_the_Great]

Note: This is a remake of a topic originally named ''about Rating(its little tips for how to be more good player)'', posted by BsK_DePtHBoMb_ (aka kkab) on DeX Clan forums. It had 5 pages when I archived it, though I didn't took them all but just two pages I found important/interesting (the first and the last one, including kkab's replies and explanations).

I didn't want to change anything not to ruin the feeling - kkab's English might not be the best (as he says himself), but it is surely understandable and very original - you know it's him when you read it
If there's anything unclear, feel free to reply here to get an explanation.

ty kkab! ops:

About Rating (Small tips to become a better player)
Original: "about Rating(its little tips for how to be more good player)"

by BsK_DePtHBoMb_ (aka kkab)

posted on 14 Dec 2008, 05:41

ppl sometimes ask whats his rating in my opinion( i also asked it to koven when i was learning aoc to him and dont play at the zone)

standard is rated point sure.

it works at old day. but its not at now.

here has a lot of smurfs and set team newbie who want easy point)

so i am measure with something.

aoc is really long long game.

it came since 2000 already.

almost player played at least 3+ years and patch dosent change since 7 years.

no more speical strategy makes closed level to all.

therefore i type how to measure player's rated.

basic in aoc is build order (how much village takes sheep, wood, berry, hunts, farm and how to makes house, wall, building and reached up still feudal or dark age)

i am sure u watched much recorded game.

look at less 1750 rated player how to build order

they havnt good build order. they always do what they wanted.(its not means expert what wanted from random situation) it let him cant his best play. they needs watch them's record which he played best and remember it and try it all the game. it makes him bored sure after time. bored means isnt that play only one style. can play it 120% and needs new things. (i am still fix my build order to can be more good. :$)

1800 ~ 2000rated has good build order still reached castle age up and makes good units.

they arent different to 2k rated with build order

u can see real 1800 rated recorded game. 1800 player can be 23+2 build order still reached castle age up like me in ln.

it meant they takes almost same resource, makes good wall and almost same amout units like me.

but lack of other things.

after 2k rated.

they r same like 1800 rated who can be good build order.

but 2k knows how to map control.(of cuz 1.8k too dose it.)
an example : 1800 rated's scout just cleared fog. but 2k+ rated's scout cleared fog and check where is gold and stone. where is fight line(hill for defance or raid his base) for attack, where is good spot for castle or tc. of cuz in ln. i always is think when my sheeps is exploring map.
how much i have gold and stone. (it decided my army, and push or defance still perfact trade, and rush or boom)
how long i closed to ally or enemy, where is good wall for defance enemy.
where enemy will be makes 2nd and 3rd tc.(it let me where my knight go first or raid )
what he want now knight or archer or monk or boom (it let me change to strategy for count strategy.)
how to micro. when i need fight or not. i can use how much resource for push. and so so...

so i can be measure little sure whats his rated if i played one game or watch his recorded. i can know he does map control but looked like lack of to perfact skills

and after all of it 2300++ rated. they has really closed skills each other and understand almost strategy.

they r really few player. ( it meant they knows well each other. and wahtced record and researched and think how to kill him.) who can be 2.4k? or 2.5k?

2.3k really knows well to other 2.3k rated style, strategy, what he likes.
do u want be over rated? if u r 2.3k. watch only one who overed 2.3k rated record and write all his information on paper 11 or remember it. when he reached castle age up if he use one strategy (an example: he reached feudal up with 23 vils. and make one stable and make 2 archery after time. when he makes blacksmith then? u can know his army upgrade time then. and u see 15 scout and 20 archer+skir and few pike. when he reached castle age? dose he like push in any situation? when he played bad on which situation?. ok, u need make count strategy or more good build order then him. u can be 2.4k sure then :$)



koven was 2.5k when all othere expert was 2.3k

he could take only 3~5 point even he won 2.2k or 2.3k (of cuz he too played team game and got 5~7 pointed. but almost his rated was 1v1.

old day has much expert.(not like now. really many 2k, 2.1k, 2.2k, few 2.3k(they r be 2.5k now). it was really exiting. i dont know what they do. and hasnt any information. they always makes new strategy and used it to koven.

but he kept it long long time even all wanted kill him.

thats why i called its "real 2.5k"


---------------all ppl has other opinion. and i agree it-----------------------

ex: i am not native u know. admin can be fix wrong grammer or word. and dont be laugh :@

 

[BugA_the_Great]

Note: This is not original discussion flow. Some posts that I found unimportant for the topic are removed (along with complete pages 2, 3 and 4), taking care not to change the point of the discussion.

by DeX_imposter (aka insecticide)

posted on 14 Dec 2008, 12:30

Rox article by kkab. Thank you very much its a good pleasure to benefit from your knowledge. We will learn many things from you.

by DeX_JeDi (aka JeD1)

posted on 14 Dec 2008, 19:35

that's true.Koven is real 2500.But his old tactics dont work more:D I think If he was still playing,he would find new tactics vs this wallers...

by BsK_DePtHBoMb_

posted on 15 Dec 2008, 01:32

player has 2 of style. (or more style)

smart player(startegy player an example : grunt) skills player(experienced player, skills player)

koven was skills player. tactics dosent matter to him.

by DeX_imposter

posted on 15 Dec 2008, 10:34

i think thats why grunt was better tg player.(?)

by BsK_DePtHBoMb_

posted on 15 Dec 2008, 22:11

team game is different.

there too have 2 of style. ( or more.)

one of is who knows all ally style. and how to make them best play. it needs victime sometimes.(an example : hold on 1vs2 without complain. it means believe ally. if i am holding on. he will help me or kill 2 player and send resource for back.

othere is who want be team ace and ally follows his play. almost guy they want sling to him. and needs make much units at early time even he is better on boom.

i dont know whats the better exactly. i prefer first. but i sometimes felt i should play 2nd way in some of situation on team game.

by DeX_imposter

posted on 16 Dec 2008, 11:40

yes, i prefer first one too, especially on ln

by DeX_b00ga

its not only the gape in the skills and strategies they are some rly good micro players but with lacking of tactics [or map reading as u said]

all up to player level i think basicly some1 like me cant beat some1 like halen even if he pick wrong strat and i got better strat its all up to player level[by level i mean general calculation of what u speak of +1 more factor microing and mind for countering the unexpected]
in brood war the is one measure called MPS mooves per second wich is how many actions has the gamer did in single minute AOC is much more complicated game but unit control here is also on very high level an example u got 20 xbows vs 2 mangonels u might have killed enemy 10 vils but when the mangonels are ready u need rly good micro to avoid theyr masss dead and the same time u dont have enough eco for ur own workshop or stable to produce counter but generally buildings order and map reading are someting that AdiX protector always told me that i suck in and may be he is correct but i think that everybody got a potential but not every1 can be as good as Halen or KKab and its not a matter of thinking or clicking fast its just a human limitation to the current skill in a area where the speed of hands and mind must be in good harmony in order to produce something amazing [are u bored guys] :D
that is 2k3+ level in aoc unreachable for most but it is not a tragedy couz they are humans too and can be defeated
Thanks to KKab of sharing hes AOC wisdom with mortals of DeX if u got any more tips i will be glad to hear them i need weapons vs smurfs and ur Tips are loading my gun ^^

by BsK_DePtHBoMb_

posted on 13 Jun 2009, 05:07

i dont agree ur opinion.

i learnt micro to koven and korean dmer. i learnt it only 1 weeks. (learnt micro about 3 hours? and all the time for patrol.)
micro isnt hard than gather resource well.

i think all can be micro well if do only micro. if u have 3 scout and 10 skir. and i have same and micro only this. i cant win u all the time sure.
but they couldnt notice other when they r mircro controling. why newbie isnt good on micro. bcuz they didnt play in peace and calm. they dosent know if i am doing micro only. enemy too only can micro . but they r trying micre and treatment resource together.
good resources overed micro player who dosent know boom well.
and good resource give ur comfortable.
first of finishes boom limited 60 villager with all upgrade. u dont need treatment well after time. it give u more time. u can practice micro then. i too practiced micro like this.
after time micro and boom r be better . u get high rated then.

1600 vs 1600 has similar micro. 1700 vs 1700 has smilar micro too.
siege vs archer arent good example. whats good units in game? power is important. but i think speed is important. archer is fast than siege. and 20 archer is expensive than 2 siege.

my explaine 1800 means that can play same like 2.5k till dark age. its so simple. just need explored map well. and good order about 23 villager. 6 villager take sheep and 3 vils to wood and 4 vils to berry and make 2 farm and take boar and sheep and press up and makes balance wood 10villager. and no more. (dark rush is different.)

halen and u compare isnt good example. expert bad start is better than inter.

micro give just little resource adventage. u know well after 10 units needs only patrol. not micro. and all patrol has same effect.

micro give chance about resource upgrade or make more boom.

i used half of speed than old day. bcuz i am be older. and i know what should i do each time.

aoe1 top player (icarus_ll) has really slowly hand. but he played exactly. and played with brain. he was better than koven at first time. i didnt see faster player than koven.

much korean inter complained about hand speed. or other. but hand speed makes you only 5~10% better.(but it makes over 2.3k sure. highest level needs speed. but not to just 2k or 2.1k. they needs other.)


i showned how they played beside sit. they dosent need speed.

they needs smart and need understand about resource.

who is better player? it means he knows more tips than enemies and trained like machine.

almost player played for only fun.

they dosent play like pro or trained. but they wanted skills like expert. :$

by DeX_JeDi

posted on 02 Aug 2009, 09:38

Good mouse control is so important for army control and eco control i think

by BsK_DePtHBoMb_

posted on 10 Aug 2009, 04:25

i believe it 7~8 years.

but i know its wrong when i am be oldden.

mouse dosent matter. important is know what should u do all the time.

check ur play. u might press hot key 2 times or more even u needed just once time.

exactly click let you free time and dosent require much speed.

control is tips. much click is sux than few click.

aoc isnt sc.

by DeX_imposter

posted on 10 Aug 2009, 07:50

i agree kkabs opinion according to my lan experiences. i saw many good players at cyber cafes. extra hand speed doesnt mean high level. i saw many slow/relax players playing at 19++ skill...

by DeX_JeDi

posted on 10 Aug 2009, 15:42

hummm.That's true i play so fast and cant see map very well.I click mouse so much time for nothing

by DeX_imposter

posted on 10 Aug 2009, 17:25

lol orhan u need to be relax during game

by DeX_b00ga

posted on 11 Aug 2009, 10:07

ts make a hard sence after all i sometimes focus too much on the fight scene and wasting precious time for fixing eco
and sometimes even when i win mi battle i loose the war i never rly give so much tought about eco i am probably obsessed to kill peons
And is rly patrol good option for army more than 10 units ? i rarely use patrol function :S also i admit about build order not only to building but also right eco ballance becouz in my favourite LN there is a various options exampl - mongol can do it with less than 20 vils and make assraping scout rush if there is like 3 boars arround the place ^^ i rly love to do it sometimes becouz like 4-6 scouts in min 16-17 hurt much more than 2-3 knts few mins later specialy if enemy close and u see dead deers :D
Anyway thanks u for explaining everything so clearly

 

[zuviss]

thank you!

this was one of the things i hated missing when dex clan site went down

 

[insecticide]

hahaha nice memories.. thx buga.. i am sorry for the DeX site. me and pkz were part of it. but pkz had his own site(aoczone) also. i couldnt handle it myself, so it went down. i uploaded very nice unpublic kkab and halen recs to there(i cant even find them right now). i wish some users of dex will upload all recs and articles..

 

[Rodrigus]

Cool, thx for posting

 

[Zen]

interesting

 

[chal4oye]

Here has a lot of smurfs and set team newbie who want easy point)

so i am measure with something.

aoc is really long long game.

it came since 2000 already.

almost player played at least 3+ years and patch dosent change since 7 years.

no more speical strategy makes closed level to all.

therefore i type how to measure player's rated.

basic in aoc is build order (how much village takes sheep, wood, berry, hunts, farm and how to makes house, wall, building and reached up still feudal or dark age)

i am sure u watched much recorded game.







----------------
GuL:

 

[manish]

can you post kkab's remainings also?? like page 2 and others

 

[BugA_the_Great]

I`m sorry, but I don`t have those, I only saved the two I posted, the first and the last one (pages 1 and 5). I really believe there was nothing interesting on the rest of them (in my opinion, and it might be that kkab didn`t even reply on those, can`t remember now), otherwise I would have saved some others, too.

But if anyone has those pages archived, please feel free to post them here.

 

[SCNElite_Paladin]

I didn't knew Buga is still around 111 I thought he retired
or may be I am confusing him with Bublifuk

 

[BugA_the_Great]

I didn't knew Buga is still around 111 I thought he retired
or may be I am confusing him with Bublifuk

One never knows

... and please don`t quote the post right before yours, thank you 11 (unless yours end on a new page)

 

[Dricow]

Does this rating thing still works?

I mean.. . I use all hotkeys, I know how to 21 pop scout Huns and still go castle in 21 min, I know a little about map control . But I still 13xx...

Am I very noob or people are really good nowadays?

 

[Fall]

The average level at each rating is a lot higher than when that was written I think. The current ladder is still 'deflated' in terms of points compared to the ladder he wrote that guide for.