AOE-II 30$ contest: fastest 40 champions

Unknownkreeshak

New Member
Feb 11, 2015
75
0
0
#1
UPDATE 28/1/2016: Current Leader SouFire with 26:32.
UPDATE 29/1/2016: Current Leader: _Melkor 25:44

WINNER: TheMax 24:54

Watch all games here: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=119072


Previous similar contests:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=112802
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=112452

Hello I'll be making a small contest,

The contest is going to be "Fastest 40 champions"

Winner gets $30 via paypal.

You must play games in single player mode and send your recordings at [email protected]
Please make sure you include your time at the mail, so I don't have to check non-winning recordings.

Contest ends at 11th February 2016 23:59 GMT.

Each day I am going to post the winning time, so you know what time you have to beat.

Game type: RM
Difficulty is going to be easiest.
Standard resources.
Easiest AI.
Map explored.
Map tiny.

Copying rules from a previews contest:

To start, participants will download and install the BoomChallengeMapPack. You will pick the correct scenario for the leaderboard you want to play for. Once this has been chosen you can choose your color, blue or red. Make sure the computer does not have the same color as yourself! Reveal map and record game should be enabled. You are NOT allowed to team the computer to abuse his teambonus! Resources should be set to standard!

Download scenario here:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/u4iik ... PackV1.zip

You are allowed to pick whichever civ you want, that you think will help achieve it faster.

Post here if you have any questions or if I have forgotten anything.

Good luck have fun!!!!
 

NetherlandsSiFly

Well Known Pikeman
Jul 11, 2012
1,255
101
78
28
Netherlands
www.voobly.com
Voobly
SiFly
View profile
Ladder
RM - 1v1
Rating
1740
Wins
20
Losses
9
Streak
-1
#4
Great to see the contest back! I'll definitely try this one again.

Please include the last settings in your post, starting age dark, no cheats, patch 1.4 etc, etc ,etc.
 

MexicoSouFire

Well Known Pikeman
Mar 11, 2011
2,597
132
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Mexico
#7
Goths with perfusion can do it very quickly, the trouble is get a castle, then extra res for the upgrades, but iguess the market will own.
 

United StatesShmolagin

Well Known Pikeman
Jun 14, 2014
1,422
114
78
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Tia_HardlyBald
View profile
Ladder
RM - Team Games
Rating
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Wins
81
Losses
76
Streak
-2
#8

MexicoSouFire

Well Known Pikeman
Mar 11, 2011
2,597
132
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Mexico
#9
Well i tried a FI with goths uping with castle, min 28 so far but it felt wrong after waiting for enough eco to get perfusion xd, now i will try with mini boom, another civ that is worth to try is aztecks.
 

IrelandOneMillion

Known Member
Dec 25, 2014
691
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Dublin, Ireland
#11
Indeed. The two-handed swordsman upgrade takes 75 seconds to resarch and the champion upgrade requires 100 seconds. Add on to that 190 seconds for the imperial age upgrade and that means you would have to click up at 19 minutes latest and still have enough resources for everything. That's early even by Turkish fast imperial standards!

More broadly speaking, the Byzantine imperial age bonus is worth 600 resources. The Gothic bonus, meanwhile, is worth 1120 resources. The difference is massive. On top of that, the faster Gothic barracks makes the recruitment phase very fast.
 
A
#13
Indeed. The two-handed swordsman upgrade takes 75 seconds to resarch and the champion upgrade requires 100 seconds. Add on to that 190 seconds for the imperial age upgrade and that means you would have to click up at 19 minutes latest and still have enough resources for everything. That's early even by Turkish fast imperial standards!

More broadly speaking, the Byzantine imperial age bonus is worth 600 resources. The Gothic bonus, meanwhile, is worth 1120 resources. The difference is massive. On top of that, the faster Gothic barracks makes the recruitment phase very fast.
But can you prove? that its impossible? :twisted: . apart from that, after thinking about it, I agree that goths or vikings are better
 

IrelandOneMillion

Known Member
Dec 25, 2014
691
118
58
26
Dublin, Ireland
#16
But can you prove? that its impossible? :twisted: . apart from that, after thinking about it, I agree that goths or vikings are better
Surprisingly, you probably could. The challenge is essentially an optimisation task, so as your time goes down for a given civilisation, your resources should be tighter and tighter. So far, I've got just under 26 minutes with a bit of resources to spare as Goths. Combined with the Gothic infantry discount, the faster barracks means you can research champion quicker and burn through your resources faster. It's worth 35 seconds.

As you say, Vikings also get a good yield, as do Byzantines and Aztecs. The problem is that the scope of their (except Byzantines) economic bonuses is limited under the conditions. Free wheelbarrow is worth three extra villagers and around 150 resources (estimate). However, hand cart is only present once you reach castle age, and the time exposure of this is not going to be long enough to make up the difference. Aztecs normally get an advantage from having their opponents research loom while they don't, but in this case, no civilisation needs to do loom. The advantage from the rest of their economy once again doesn't really have time to kick in.
 

UnknownMurcio

New Member
Dec 22, 2014
94
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#19
A
#22
But can you prove? that its impossible? :twisted: . apart from that, after thinking about it, I agree that goths or vikings are better
Surprisingly, you probably could. The challenge is essentially an optimisation task, so as your time goes down for a given civilisation, your resources should be tighter and tighter. So far, I've got just under 26 minutes with a bit of resources to spare as Goths. Combined with the Gothic infantry discount, the faster barracks means you can research champion quicker and burn through your resources faster. It's worth 35 seconds.

As you say, Vikings also get a good yield, as do Byzantines and Aztecs. The problem is that the scope of their (except Byzantines) economic bonuses is limited under the conditions. Free wheelbarrow is worth three extra villagers and around 150 resources (estimate). However, hand cart is only present once you reach castle age, and the time exposure of this is not going to be long enough to make up the difference. Aztecs normally get an advantage from having their opponents research loom while they don't, but in this case, no civilisation needs to do loom. The advantage from the rest of their economy once again doesn't really have time to kick in.
One could, provided it is really impossible. But how does one know that?
 

IrelandOneMillion

Known Member
Dec 25, 2014
691
118
58
26
Dublin, Ireland
#25
One could, provided it is really impossible. But how does one know that?
You know what, I think I'll give a rigorous answer to that. Hold on to your seats!

Theorem: A task is optimised if, and only if, the resources left over upon execution is zero.

Proof: Define an object which we will call a task s. A task resides in the set of all tasks, which is a vector space. Then we can define a function f(s) which associates with each task a four-vector specifying the resources required to execute that task. We can define a further function g(f(s),t) which adds the cost of any auxiliary spending, such as villager production. Define an auxiliary function h(r,t), which returns the resources generated in a given time t in which a town centre stops producing villagers temporarily at time r. The partial derivatives of this function with respect to r and t are positive. Suppose also r and t obey a relation t-r>=d, for some d. Next, define a fourth function w(r,s,t)=h(r,t)-g(f(s),t). Then for a given r,s and t, if w(r,s,t)>0, we can take a t-dt and s-ds to get w(r,s,t)-(6w/6t)dt-(6w/6s)ds<w(r,s,t). When r',s,t' are found such that w(r',s,t')=0, we can consider a t'-dt and s'+ds such that w(r',s,t')-(6w/6t)dt+(6w/6s)ds=0 subject to t-r>=d. When t-r=d, it is impossible to lower t without also lowering r, and bringing w below zero, accomplishing a task before the resources necessary have been gathered. Therefore, w(r'',s,t'')=0 and t'' is the optimised time.

Corollary: Goths produce 40 champions faster ab initio than Byzantines.

Proof: Consider the task s of producing 40 champions ab initio. Then let a be the optimised time for the Koreans. Let r and t be the optimised parameters. Then w(r,s,t)=0. The Byzantines have a one third discount on the imperial age, which saves 600 resources. This yields w(r,s',t) with trace equal to 600. The Goths meanwhile save 1120 resources on swordsmen, so w(r,s'',t) has trace 1120. Optimise with w(r,s',t) to yield w(r',s',t')=0. Then the trace of w(r',s'',t') is 520. Finally, we have r''<r', t'<t'' such that w(r'',s'',t'')=0.

I have skipped over some subtleties, but in plain English, it means, if you have resources left over, you can do it faster, and if it costs less, you can do it faster. I can't see anyone other than Goths coming out on top in this one!
 

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