Elite Karambit didnt receive +1 MA if i am not mistaken. They have 1/1 armour before.Hi everyone! a beta for the next balance update came out yesterday.
This is more or less the list of balance changes:
General
cannon galleon do not requires a tech anymore (available as soon as you research chemistry)
Steppe lancer -5g cost
Burgundians:
Economic Upgrades available one age earlier and cost -50% food
Vineyards conversion ratio of food to gold down from 100% to 50%
Cumans:
Palisade Walls reduced from +50% to +33% HP.
Franks:
Their unique technologies have had their ages swapped, costs adjusted accordingly
Bearded Axe (300f, 300g)
Chivalry (600w, 500g)
Incas:
Villagers affected by blacksmith upgrades starting Castle Age
Malay:
Fish Traps provide 3x food instead of infinite.
Battle Elephants now cost -30% in Castle, -40% in Imperial (72f and 42g). (They still only have +1/+1 at blacksmith)
Karambit Warrior +1 base attack to (7/8), Elite has also gained +1 melee armor
Sicilians:
First Crusade (units are more resistant to converions) was added to the tech
Donjon stone cost reduced from 200 to 175 stone
Serjeant base armor increased from 1/1 to 2/2 in Feudal
Elite Serjeant HP up from 75 to 85
so far, I agree with everything, altough I was hopping to get a buff for burmese elephants as well. And maybe something for spanish. I really like they buffed malay, altough they were nerfed on water, and I would have love to have them buffed in that departament.
And so far as I could see, no rebalance in water (besides the cannon galleon change)
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Upcoming Balance Changes! (feat. Burgundian and Sicilian buffs)
Those sneaky sneaky devs man!In this video, I go through all of the balance changes I was able to find on the just-released PUP build of AoE2, which is avail...www.youtube.com
Why do Magyars need an eco bonus? They have insanely good late game composition and are viable in 1v1s as well as TG flanks and pockets. Giving them an eco bonus will make their scout rush deadly. They are already cheaper and have +1 attack.They absolutely refuse to give Magyars an eco bonus because they don't want to change their identity.
eco bonuses can come in all shapes and forms so they dont affect neither the early nor the late game, but only midgameWhy do Magyars need an eco bonus? They have insanely good late game composition and are viable in 1v1s as well as TG flanks and pockets. Giving them an eco bonus will make their scout rush deadly. They are already cheaper and have +1 attack.
Depends a bit on how you define "viable in 1v1s" considering they were largely ignored for the entirety of hidden cup 4.Why do Magyars need an eco bonus? They have insanely good late game composition and are viable in 1v1s as well as TG flanks and pockets. Giving them an eco bonus will make their scout rush deadly. They are already cheaper and have +1 attack.
Yep, but if I not mistaken there was no Acropolis nor land madness there. Nor Serengeti. I'm not sure about Atacama. Anyway, Magyar have these maps where they excelDepends a bit on how you define "viable in 1v1s" considering they were largely ignored for the entirety of hidden cup 4.
Trouble is that most games are won in feudal / castle. Few games go the distance. Also pretty much all civs that are meant to be good at scout rushing or any type of early aggression have an eco bonus. They kinda go hand in hand. All civs except one.Why do Magyars need an eco bonus? They have insanely good late game composition and are viable in 1v1s as well as TG flanks and pockets. Giving them an eco bonus will make their scout rush deadly. They are already cheaper and have +1 attack.
Feel like Mud Flow is pretty close to acropolis/land madness/etc.Yep, but if I not mistaken there was no Acropolis nor land madness there. Nor Serengeti. I'm not sure about Atacama. Anyway, Magyar have these maps where they excel
How do we not consider free Forging and saving 12 food per unit an eco bonus for scout rushing?Trouble is that most games are won in feudal / castle. Few games go the distance. Also pretty much all civs that are meant to be good at scout rushing or any type of early aggression have an eco bonus. They kinda go hand in hand. All civs except one.
How do we not consider free Forging and saving 12 food per unit an eco bonus for scout rushing?
Have to heavily disagree. Going scouts is very much still an option and used. Maybe not in the sense of " im gonna kill 5 vills", but it still is a good opening, that can give you map control and a great economy development. Even against dr fc, youre often fine just going castle yourself and into skirms or knights, depending on the situation.Because it only applies if you scout rush. If you drush or go archers you don't gain any benefits from those bonuses. And the problem is that scout rushes aren't always viable. In fact in the current wall/drush meta, scout rush is only viable at the noob level.
A general eco bonus like faster farming or free wheelbarrow is overall better because it gives you more options which in turn makes you less predictable and more flexible. Also eco bonuses tend to reverberate throughout the whole game and do not depend on you doing damage to your enemy to pay off.
Your post implied in the context of aiding the scout rush the civ is designed around. However I see what you are saying and agree that general eco bonuses are more powerful on the whole. You are correct for example in pointing out how badly Magyars in particular are hurt by the relative weakness of scout rushing in the quickwall/wall behind meta that has characterized DE. That is why I think so much more of balance discussion should focus on the truly ridiculous power that top tier civs tend to have in their passive early eco bonuses.Because it only applies if you scout rush. If you drush or go archers you don't gain any benefits from those bonuses. And the problem is that scout rushes aren't always viable. In fact in the current wall/drush meta, scout rush is only viable at the noob level.
A general eco bonus like faster farming or free wheelbarrow is overall better because it gives you more options which in turn makes you less predictable and more flexible. Also eco bonuses tend to reverberate throughout the whole game and do not depend on you doing damage to your enemy to pay off.
Have to heavily disagree. Going scouts is very much still an option and used. Maybe not in the sense of " im gonna kill 5 vills", but it still is a good opening, that can give you map control and a great economy development. Even against dr fc, youre often fine just going castle yourself and into skirms or knights, depending on the situation.
Scouts opening can put you in a very flexible position, as long as you make sure to not take to much damage against a potential drush/m@a. Like it does feel nowadays more of a defensive opening even, trying to get a good economy and to put yourself in a flexible position regarding follow up.
How do you know he doesn't wear contacts?
At any rate I would be hesitant to suggest scout buffs don't promote knight play considering the synergy between those two units but you are right they do not exclusively focus on those two units. Still, with their consistent refusal to tone down the most problematic features of those units and the civs that use them well (think of Britons rightfully hated xbow range bonus) it is hard to not feel that implicitly they prefer things to be this way. I think he is exaggerating for effect to be sure.
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-Lithuanians bonus got nerfed from +5 to +4 max.
-Keshiks got buffed.
36202
-Keshiks got buffed once again.
-Tatars steppe lancers got buffed.
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-Teutons infantry (including Teutonic knights) got buffed along with their cavalry.
-Boyars got buffed with +1 pierce armor.
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-Elephant archers got buffed, tho they are still ****.
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-Catas got buffed with cheaper upgrades.
-Condos got buffed.
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-Tatars silk armor got buffed, meaning their CAs, scouts as well as steppe lancers got buffed.
-Genoese xbows got buffed.
-Gbeto got buffed.
-Turks scouts got buffed.
-Janis got buffed.
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-Changes to Arambais wasnt necessarily a nerf.
-CAs got buffed.
Coming patch
-Karambits are getting rebuffed.
If you call this "Nerfing strats other than knights / archers", you need to geta pair of new glasses.
the only real impact that nerf will have is making paladin take the same amount of time for Franks as for other players. I guess you could shorten the time a bit, but I doubt anyone will because of the cost. Another unique tech that will now never be used, great work devs! Franks can just build a few more stables in imp now and get a similar production rate.This is the same patch where they're going to hinder the ability of Frank pockets to churn out FU paladins at alarming rates, so they certainly aren't consistently refusing to address such things.
Apparently they nerfed Indian camels / Konniks / Leitis / Kipchaks based on a dice roll.If it ends up being too strong then they can tinker with it a bit. I'd rather the devs experiment with different options so that civs have cool strats they can go for rather than forcing everyone to do the exact same thing and being scared to give bonuses for anything other than knights and archers.
Defo agree. I was more answering in general and not magyar specific. That one you described quite well.I appreciate your input and you do raise some valid points. But I do have to remind you that while a scout opening does set up a good eco plan and asserts map control, a civ with an eco bonus can do that too and better. Slavs, Khmer or Franks for example.
It is still incumbent on a Magyar player to try to do damage otherwise not really benefitting from their bonuses. And 12 food saved per scout (3 x 12 = 36 food) isn't a huge amount of food saved. 36 food is not even a full villager.
Which is why in some of my games when I random Magyars, I go full scout spam because I figure the more scouts I make, the more I save and the more I save, the more the bonus pays off, especially if manage to bust or sneak into my opponent's base. Even if I lose some scouts to spears, I lose less because of the discount.
It's a bit of a tricky thing to wrap one's mind around but when you get discounts on something, the more you take advantage of it, the more the bonus grows. But I'm not convinced it's a smart strategy at the higher levels. It works at my level because most people don't know how to react to the neverending scout spam.
the only real impact that nerf will have is making paladin take the same amount of time for Franks as for other players. I guess you could shorten the time a bit, but I doubt anyone will because of the cost. Another unique tech that will now never be used, great work devs! Franks can just build a few more stables in imp now and get a similar production rate.
I just want to be clear, I have no issues with Franks being a sick knight civ. I actually like it. Same with Britons. I just wish they weren't so hesitant about giving other civs similar types of powerful options for different types of units.
Apparently they nerfed Indian camels / Konniks / Leitis / Kipchaks based on a dice roll.
Seriously, stop moving goalposts and ignoring every single point which is against your argument like iyiyth the legend.