Vivi had a post explaining the issue on his stream. He framed the whole event as "some Chinese guy betraying the nation and informing the organizers of us streaming" as well as "Westerners bullying the Chinese people". He then justified his actions and claimed that he would still cast the games live.
Actually, they were still breaking the rules. AFAIK, while Tim was playing Liereyy, Vivi went into Voobly ECL lobby and spec the game, streaming his POV and doing live casting. On the contrary, Yo said he would not break the rules and stream those games.
The Chinese tend to have a habbit, whenever they break the rules, the will frame it as part of their culture, and this is an unique Chinese style way of doing things.
Rules are rules, and rules override individual culture. When people come together to agree on some rules, everyone has to follow the rules and stick to them
I must say you left out on an important detail:Accept those rule-breakers' sign-up was a big mistake.
So what did Vivi do after knowing the rule change to don't allow streaming? DIDN'T HE STREAM TIM VS Liereyy LIVE?I must say you left out on an important detail:
ECL agreed to have live streaming for Chinese players, which is definitely a factor behind their sign-ups. Now the rules are changed without compensation, do you honestly expect people that took these losses to find this fair? Changing the rules and call out the ones that suffer as rule breakers, 11.
Vivi had a post explaining the issue on his stream. He framed the whole event as "some Chinese guy betraying the nation and informing the organizers of us streaming" as well as "Westerners bullying the Chinese people". He then justified his actions and claimed that he would still cast the games live.
Actually, they were still breaking the rules. AFAIK, while Tim was playing Liereyy, Vivi went into Voobly ECL lobby and spec the game, streaming his POV and doing live casting. On the contrary, Yo said he would not break the rules and stream those games.
The Chinese tend to have a habbit, whenever they break the rules, the will frame it as part of their culture, and this is an unique Chinese style way of doing things.
Rules are rules, and rules override individual culture. When people come together to agree on some rules, everyone has to follow the rules and stick to them
So many people in discord watch the Chinese streamers streams without understanding Chinese just so they can see the result earlier. These players need to stop streaming it just as the other top streamers do for the good of the game.
So what did Vivi do after knowing the rule change to don't allow streaming? DIDN'T HE STREAM TIM VS Liereyy LIVE?
Even if all you said are truth, the first 4 event he is not a rule-breaker, NOW HE IS.
I agree rule is good or bad can be discussed
But breaking rule is good or bad don't need to be discussed
Edit: about the rule change part, i would remind you this
A.1. The Administration may at any time make changes to these rules, in the case of any rule changes or updates team Captains and Administrators will be notified directly.
If what you say about Vivi is true then that is just... lame. I always have to respect a tower rusher but that behavior is just not on and such a shame too see from the fat dragon.
ECL streams hold my attention more than your average tournament games. I really cannot hack sitting waiting around between games when the players are ones who sit there for ages, re's, spec delays etc etc. ECL feels like I am watching a TV show, Match of the Day for instance, there is a production value. With live games there will always be times you feel the caster is just filling time and what else can they do, there is no way around that. I am not saying I don't enjoy live games more as they are happening - but for me the difference between a live game and a "live recorded" game in which no one but the players know the result is small and the difference in production quality far outweighs that. This does change however if people already know the results.
It is hard to know the Chinese players personality, we can't watch their streams, can't communicate that well, only see their game play. (Bar Yo, he talks here and seems a good guy).If what is posted above is true then it is really disappointing to find that out about one of my favorite players but it really does show how upstanding Yo is when he follows the rules to the letter even when his fellow country men are not.
I feel ECL should draw a line in the sand. OK, you have done what you have done, that is now over. No punishment for that, but if you do it again we will start docking prize pool and or points. Keeping defying the rules, as it seems Vivi might be set on, then if I were in charge, they would be gone. Before getting rid I might try contacting a few old legends, see if they would want to try to get back in shape and take Frantics place - I would even offer them funds to do so.
You might be able to tell I am annoyed at this disrespect. We need to understand we are a small, old, but growing game. To maintain growth we need to act as a community, not work against each other. Escape managed to get Microsoft interested in sponsoring tournaments again over a decade after their last one and what was announced yesterday? Microsoft have gone 50/50 with MembTV on KOTD2 - this is very big news and can't be understated. This isn't Microsoft working with a company like Escape (Remember Escape isn't just Zak, Escape was already a company pre AoE so there is history, financial records a level of security for Microsoft), this is Microsoft teaming with a streamer. A streamer who has hosted some excellent tournaments already but a streamer none the less. Please don't think I am putting Memb down here but instead I am talking about how important this move by Microsoft is. They are showing they are willing to work with the community to expand our audience and grow the game. From a business perspective it is a very different move working with another business than working with a streamer. Microsoft have made the jump and that could be such a big thing for our community. Thank you do Escape for trailblazing the way and a big congratulations to MembTV for convincing them he was the right man for the job, nice to see they trust you.
The above is why I believe it is important Escape take a strong line vs this rule breaking. We now have KOTD 2 and I have no doubt in my mind that had Escape never formed, Microsoft would not be putting $5k into it. (I also have no doubt in my mind that had Microsoft not put $5k into it, Memb would have still put on a very impressive KOTD without the Microsoft $$) We need ECL, KOTD 2, NAC 2 to be successful. The more successful tournaments we have in the community, the more viewers we end up getting to these events, the more outside money will flow in. The more outside money that flows in the more flexibility we have in so many areas of the games. You want ECL style games but casted live? We need way more sponsorship to be able to tell top players, right, you have to be ready to play every other Saturday for a year from X -> Y time period. By undermining tournaments all Vivi does is hurt the long term viability of his job as a pro AoE2 player. If he wants to continue to be a pro AoE player full time he needs this game to grow, so stop hurting it man.
Very disappointing indeed Fat Dragon.
So what did Vivi do after knowing the rule change to don't allow streaming? DIDN'T HE STREAM TIM VS Liereyy LIVE?
Even if all you said are truth, the first 4 event he is not a rule-breaker, NOW HE IS.
I agree rule is good or bad can be discussed
But breaking rule is good or bad don't need to be discussed
Edit: about the rule change part, i would remind you this
A.1. The Administration may at any time make changes to these rules, in the case of any rule changes or updates team Captains and Administrators will be notified directly.
The streaming replay is still on his site. Due to post limits, I cannot post links.
Do you really think they will show the logos after KotD and BoA both stream rules says streamers must show banner but none of they did it?Naturally ECL might want to enforce somewhat more visible publicity whenever the Chi stream their POV (logos, links to official site, merch store, whatever), which I'm not entirely sure has been up to date so far.
What does that matter? I just threw that as an idea, it's not up to me to conceptualize actual business-compromises, and it's just a matter of enforcement of said rules anyways. I would very well imagine that if Escape wanted their logo/links there and says Chi can stream POV for a geographically limited audience, and it's no-re-bye-out-of-tournament (or point losses, other sanctions), it would likely happen.Do you really think they will show the logos after KotD and BoA both stream rules says streamers must show banner but none of they did it?
another example of rule breakers
You can't cast a game you already know the result. Vivi attempted it once, and it's very boring to watch.I don't exactly understand why streams in Chinese can't happen on the day after streams in English. Only Chinese players have problems with keeping the results secret, surely they can tell their viewers to wait for official streams. I feel like it's the right decision to put a ban on live streaming players' POV, they can cast their own games on Sundays after international streams. Everybody has to wait for streams and Chinese community shouldn't be excepted from this rule.
Players should definitely be punished in this case, since they are slient about it (indicating acceptance) and did not communicate with the admins. I'm with you on that being rule breaking, and actually admire your effort to expose those issues since I blind myself with player biases.Do you really think they will show the logos after KotD and BoA both stream rules says streamers must show banner but none of they did it?
another example of rule breakers
YESHow about streaming live games since Asia Stage?
As you see, people prefer watching live games (NAC2 Qualifier LOSER BRACKET) instead of recording games (ECL Middle East 1v1 FINAL), coz they can watch "recordings" of your "recording streaming", really hurting Chinese AoCers' heart as well since NO Chinese pro casters would like to stream recording games and we have no access to streaming of these fantastic ECL games in Chinese.
It's no longer on Steam, no "out of sync"s. Past tournaments on Voobly with reputation (KotD, BoA) were all live streaming. You should have adapted to that.
Actually when I kind of agree with something but don't have more opinion, i don't leave msgPlayers should definitely be punished in this case, since they are slient about it (indicating acceptance) and did not communicate with the admins. I'm with you on that being rule breaking, and actually admire your effort to expose those issues since I blind myself with player biases.
But please. You are being a tryhard about putting negative labels on us as a whole - you of all people should know that even within Chinese players there are people that are reasonable like Yo. Vivi and Tim are not as reasonable, but admins can always be harsher on them.
Actually when I kind of agree with something but don't have more opinion, i don't leave msg
(That's why I see your #16 but only answer last section, it's because things above like timezone is understandable, not because i focus here)
I'm also happy to see Yo lead chinese community to a direction of following rules, which is good
I didn't mention this because i think above we are talking about rule breaker, if he didn't break rule why should we discuss him here?
(btw, in KotD BoA he didn't show the banner too, but i know this is not your point)