Its a bit sad approach though :D We wanted a new generic unit to sell DE but couldnt think of one so we removed knights and made the new unique slight variation of a knight. This would be predescent for doing the same to other civs, which would end in a mess of units similiarly to AoE3I'm not opposed to removing the knight line for SL civs in exchange for buffing the SL.
Or limit them to knights or something.
Eco and production locked? What do you mean? Does not seem logical, and if they are unlocked they would be too strong in early feudal.Na you just have them in feudal, but will be somewhat eco and production locked so they only come into play when scouts normally are too late to sneak through walls. Dont need some complex aoe1 style tech requirements
If they need 1 minute to produce and cost as much as they currently do, you cant really make many of them in early feudal. But that is just an example what I mean, it is not really definitely locked to use them, but their massing is inhibited to choose a hopefully better word. Like you dont really see feudal eagles in masses due to the production bottleneck, but you can make them in situations still. If you make SL a feudal, castle age unit, you ofc would not automatically copy the numbers from the existing unit. They need a new concept, and according to that concept you can build the numerical frame around them. The +1 range is just not enough to make them unique and balanced enough from other existing stable units.Eco and production locked? What do you mean? Does not seem logical, and if they are unlocked they would be too strong in early feudal.
I actually have no idea since historically both the knight line and the scout line used lances.What real life military unit(s) is the Steppe Lancer meant to represent? Are those distinct from the real life military units that the scout and knight lines represent?
From the Wikipedia on mongol military tactics: "Six of every ten Mongol troopers were light cavalry horse archers; the remaining four were more heavily armored and armed lancers. Mongol light cavalry were extremely light troops compared to contemporary standards, allowing them to execute tactics and maneuvers that would have been impractical for a heavier enemy (such as European knights). Most of the remaining troops were heavier cavalry with lances for close combat after the archers had brought the enemy into disarray."What real life military unit(s) is the Steppe Lancer meant to represent? Are those distinct from the real life military units that the scout and knight lines represent?
I actually have no idea since historically both the knight line and the scout line used lances.
From the Wikipedia on mongol military tactics: "Six of every ten Mongol troopers were light cavalry horse archers; the remaining four were more heavily armored and armed lancers. Mongol light cavalry were extremely light troops compared to contemporary standards, allowing them to execute tactics and maneuvers that would have been impractical for a heavier enemy (such as European knights). Most of the remaining troops were heavier cavalry with lances for close combat after the archers had brought the enemy into disarray."
I would assume that Ensemble intended to model the single use lances with the charge bonus functionality they shelved so unless the Mongols and other steppe civs consistently used the special variety capable of reuse the Steppe Lancer does seem a bit redundant with the Knight. Flavorwise calling their heavy cavalry Steppe Lancer rather than Knight does make sense though, at least in the Castle Age.As a secondary weapon, lancers of the medieval period also bore swords, axes, hammers, or maces for hand-to-hand combat, since the lance was often a one-use-per-engagement weapon; assuming the lance survived the initial impact intact, it was (depending on the lance) usually too long, heavy, and slow to be effective against opponents in a melee.
I think the devs may have belatedly realized this – beginning with Forgotten Empires there have been seven cavalry units added to the game and five of them use lances.That said it has always seemed pretty silly how cavalry, and especially the knight line, are generally depicted with swords or similar as opposed to lances or other polearms. It's pretty funny seeing them stoop down to try and hit people with their puny lil swords. The couched lance was one of the most iconic weapons of medieval Europe (the main setting for the game) and played a massive role in the evolution of warfare on the continent so it's sad to see it basically omitted entirely. It's kind of like if you had a game based on WW2, and the tanks' attack was a guy popping out of the hatch on top of the tank and shooting people with his pistol.
It was considered first to have the lance used, but devs then decided for the sword.I think the devs may have belatedly realized this – beginning with Forgotten Empires there have been seven cavalry units added to the game and five of them use lances.
Wow, that's super interesting, thanks!It was considered first to have the lance used, but devs then decided for the sword.
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That sounds very not fun to play against.As I said before somewhere else (or even multiple places), my favourite use for them would be to make them a unit specialised in raiding, by giving them a very low base attack and hp/armor but really high bonus damage against eco units (vils, trade carts, fish), so that a fully upgraded SL 2 shot vils (currently FU paladins 3 shot vils and FU hussards 4 shot vils) but does very poorly against any non-eco unit. Also their range would make them be able to kill vils without moving (while other cav needs to chase them as the flee between each hit)
This would be too niche imo and would mean it sees as little use as it does now or just makes walling mandatory against steppe civs.As I said before somewhere else (or even multiple places), my favourite use for them would be to make them a unit specialised in raiding, by giving them a very low base attack and hp/armor but really high bonus damage against eco units (vils, trade carts, fish), so that a fully upgraded SL 2 shot vils (currently FU paladins 3 shot vils and FU hussards 4 shot vils) but does very poorly against any non-eco unit. Also their range would make them be able to kill vils without moving (while other cav needs to chase them as the flee between each hit)
I was thinking something like this:Just change their reload time back to 1.9 or 2.0 or something... 2.3 is much too high, simply makes them lose in actual combat to basically any regular unit
When I think of a unit with lances I don't think of something which can attack quickly. Lances are a slow and cumbersome weapon but can do devastating damage. Maybe from a balance perspective decreasing the ROF will turn out to be a better solution and I will support it if it does but I think increasing the attack sounds more natural.I was thinking something like this:
Reload Time of Steppe Lancers from 2.3 to 2.1 for Standard, 2.0 for Elite
and also since Cumans are the only steppe lancer civ without a particularly good bonus, give them a new civ bonus of "Steppe Lancers attack 18% faster". that means Cumans will have a very competitive steppe lancer throughout the game, with reload time of 1.785/1.7 for standard/elite