When does a Random Map become a Custom Scenario?

[IYIyTh]

Was looking at the map pool and saw that "Marketplace" was included.

The map includes a few conditions/triggers that provide additional resources to a player who has captured the marketplace.

Should these maps be included in the random map pool?

Similarly, one can make an argument that those dramatically altering the start should not be included in the 1v1 RM pack -- such as additional villagers in nomad (Steppe).

Just seems an unintentional/intentional slow creep of trying to normalize these awkward start maps as "Random Map," when they are more fitting for Custom Scenario and/or another game mode.

Just don't know how much normal aoe2 players enjoy these sort of maps as opposed to classic aoe2 RM. Those on these forums and who watch streams might enjoy them, but I doubt Joe RM player is stoked at the prospect of his opponent churning out 5-600 extra res before he knows what's even going on.

 

[LowEloNobody]

If players don't like the map... ban it

 

[Chrazini]

Marketplace have neutral markets. The masterpiece you're talking about is Aftermath. That's the only official map with what you'd call triggers, if I'm not mistaken. Though, they're not actually triggers like you'd imagine them from a scenario.

 

[LmScar12]

In my mind it's more about fixed positions / generations rather than about weird starts. If the map and resource layout is always (almost) exactly the same it may technically still be a Random Map Script, but it's more a hybrid between a random map and a custom scenario in my mind. So IMO these type of maps are in a similar category to "real world" maps, although they're achieved very differently in a technical sense.

 

[IYIyTh]

Marketplace have neutral markets. The masterpiece you're talking about is Aftermath. That's the only official map with what you'd call triggers, if I'm not mistaken. Though, they're not actually triggers like you'd imagine them from a scenario.

Do the trade workshops just work like mini feitoria then?

Either way, seems kind of similar as if I spread random gaia heroes on the map, or random +hp/attack hotspots on the map.

 

[paradox303]

Was looking at the map pool and saw that "Marketplace" was included.

The map includes a few conditions/triggers that provide additional resources to a player who has captured the marketplace.

Should these maps be included in the random map pool?

Similarly, one can make an argument that those dramatically altering the start should not be included in the 1v1 RM pack -- such as additional villagers in nomad (Steppe).

Just seems an unintentional/intentional slow creep of trying to normalize these awkward start maps as "Random Map," when they are more fitting for Custom Scenario and/or another game mode.

Just don't know how much normal aoe2 players enjoy these sort of maps as opposed to classic aoe2 RM. Those on these forums and who watch streams might enjoy them, but I doubt Joe RM player is stoked at the prospect of his opponent churning out 5-600 extra res before he knows what's even going on.

What’s with the hatred on Steppe, I HECKIN love going fast feudal archers on that map

 

[Lokalo]

What’s with the hatred on Steppe, I HECKIN love going fast feudal archers on that map

Well issue with such maps is that almost no one plays them, so people get them for first time and do some dumb stuff while someone like you is already prepared a strat for it. Is similar to african clearing, from first point of view it might look like a nice map, but in the end people do put tc close to corner wood, then it makes super easy to wall up not to mention picks some sht like spanish or gurjaras. Most of those maps have huge issue that there some certain civs just shine much more. Is similar as in many MR depending on map can have insane start with Gurjaras or Mongols, is just dumb and makes map terrible. Although if we take most of it away, we end up having arabia 11

 

[Chrazini]

Do the trade workshops just work like mini feitoria then?

Either way, seems kind of similar as if I spread random gaia heroes on the map, or random +hp/attack hotspots on the map.

Imagine a Feitoria and a Monument having a wonderful time together. They'd give birth to the Workshops on Aftermath. The resource production from the Feitoria and the convertibility from the Monument.

I don't think it's comparable to Gaia heroes, but I digress. It's certainly quite different from what is usually expected from a standard map.

 

[MuscleChamp]

arena = cs

 

[paradox303]

Well issue with such maps is that almost no one plays them, so people get them for first time and do some dumb stuff while someone like you is already prepared a strat for it. Is similar to african clearing, from first point of view it might look like a nice map, but in the end people do put tc close to corner wood, then it makes super easy to wall up not to mention picks some sht like spanish or gurjaras. Most of those maps have huge issue that there some certain civs just shine much more. Is similar as in many MR depending on map can have insane start with Gurjaras or Mongols, is just dumb and makes map terrible. Although if we take most of it away, we end up having arabia 11

You can delete pretty much all of this post, apart from the last sentence and that tells me everything I need to know!

 

[Rorrik]

It sounds like your concern is with it in the ladder, not with features like this in tournament maps? The map pool in RMS Cup 2 has a lot of features like this, due to the ongoing search for originality when so many map concepts have already been explored. But it's a good point that while a tournament player might be expected to learn a map pool, a ladder player who plays a couple games a week probably doesn't appreciate maps with unfamiliar behavior.
You can say "ban the map", fair enough, but I would rather have a variety of maps to play than a variety of maps to ban.

 

[Lokalo]

You can say "ban the map", fair enough, but I would rather have a variety of maps to play than a variety of maps to ban.

Not like you can ban all the maps you don't like either 11

 

[IYIyTh]

It sounds like your concern is with it in the ladder, not with features like this in tournament maps? The map pool in RMS Cup 2 has a lot of features like this, due to the ongoing search for originality when so many map concepts have already been explored. But it's a good point that while a tournament player might be expected to learn a map pool, a ladder player who plays a couple games a week probably doesn't appreciate maps with unfamiliar behavior.
You can say "ban the map", fair enough, but I would rather have a variety of maps to play than a variety of maps to ban.

Yeah, don't care about tournaments, do whatever you want there (random gaia heavy demos for Dave, random exploding villagers for T90, random GAIA S/O shots on parts of the map for Memb,) -- just don't mess with the most successful game mode in aoe2 history.