What event you prefer?

[The Bloodless]

Master of Arena! Or if that's too much Arena for you, Master of Closed Maps would be a nice change up.

If that involves too many walls, I also liked the concept of "Wandering Warriors" hosted by T90. Nomad style maps are, in my opinion, the most interesting and unexplored style of RM AoE2.

If Arabia or similar is more up your alley, I suggest going with classic (Voobly or HD) Arabia. Cliffs, more wolves, no rhinos or elephants, no starting sheep at the tc, lakes in your most convenient woodlines, and, yes, imbalance. But more fun.

 

[Zbyszek]

I would love something with civ pools like in ECL stages so you dont have the same matchups over and over again.
It would also limit the damage of broken DLC civs.

 

[Huehuecoyotl22]

If I had to vote, Memb I would love a tourney with multiple TC starts, and make it as crazy as possible. Budapest (2 TC start), Metropolis (3 TC start), Border Wars, etc are few I know of.

Only thing is it would be very monotonous, and cavalry play will be heavily used (9/10 games), but maybe we can modify the maps to not make them wallable and have golds and stones far away from the TCs (that way we reward ranged units, controlling golds, tower rushing, etc). Also not have multiple boars or deer patch like in some megarandom map gens where players can directly FC off of huntables, rather force players to macro with wood -> farms

I will host "Double Cup 3" (follow-up to "Double Cup" and "Double Cup 2" https://liquipedia.net/ageofempires/Double_Cup/2) some time, but haven't found sponsors yet.

Regarding the suggestions for Memb, I think neither a "Double Cup", nor a closed map, nor a open land map tournament would be the best solution.
At least in the past Memb said that 2-tc starts were not his favourite (and I already have that series going on), same can be said for water map tournaments, he obviously would not be passionate about it.
Closed map tournaments are already frequently hosted by people like Terror and Dracken, and we just had the "Only Land Cup" and "The Resurgence" was almost a land map only tournament too.

So like many of you, seeing something a bit similar to "The Open Classic", but with some change in format and drafts would be a safe choice.

One other choice I could imagine would be "Master of MegaRandom 2" - but with a custom or classic MR script, not the one used on the ladder (or collaborate with Zetnus for "Master of HyperRandom 2", which is quite similar, but more random than MR).

 

[Lokalo]

I would also really enjoy something more aggressive, like full land madness style maps. I know some civs shine much more there, but maybe could ban few obvious picks like magyars, so we see bigger diversity. Lately we had so much of closed maps, also a lot of other unknown maps where strategy seemed more important than the skill. Which is not bad sometimes, because it rewards prepared players more, but at same time is hard to predict properly or train for new map. There were quite many instances where for example GL boys going for vill fight and loses in 3 minutes. Such games doesn't add much if I see Viper knocked, I want to see him outplayed, not losing due dumb strat, but is me. So something not fully wallable like land madness, haboob style maps could be refreshing

 

[realbigfish]

I would also really enjoy something more aggressive, like full land madness style maps. I know some civs shine much more there, but maybe could ban few obvious picks like magyars, so we see bigger diversity. Lately we had so much of closed maps, also a lot of other unknown maps where strategy seemed more important than the skill. Which is not bad sometimes, because it rewards prepared players more, but at same time is hard to predict properly or train for new map. There were quite many instances where for example GL boys going for vill fight and loses in 3 minutes. Such games doesn't add much if I see Viper knocked, I want to see him outplayed, not losing due dumb strat, but is me. So something not fully wallable like land madness, haboob style maps could be refreshing

no offence but i am really curious regarding "maps where strategy seemed more important than the skill". Imo Strategie ist THE skill in a RTS? So what are you refering to?

 

[DracKeN]

I would also really enjoy something more aggressive, like full land madness style maps. I know some civs shine much more there, but maybe could ban few obvious picks like magyars, so we see bigger diversity. Lately we had so much of closed maps, also a lot of other unknown maps where strategy seemed more important than the skill. Which is not bad sometimes, because it rewards prepared players more, but at same time is hard to predict properly or train for new map. There were quite many instances where for example GL boys going for vill fight and loses in 3 minutes. Such games doesn't add much if I see Viper knocked, I want to see him outplayed, not losing due dumb strat, but is me. So something not fully wallable like land madness, haboob style maps could be refreshing

??? We've just finished qualifiers and in 1 month will be the Main Event of the biggest tournament ever in terms of prize pool. And that tournament is way too focused on 'skill' or in other words micro, clean play, speed and is also quite less about strategy. I personally think EW is really bad idea and lacks too much variety and strategy, but I got why RBW wanted such format. I'm not against it because RBW events are always fun to play/watch, the production is great, etc. But the pure game mode isn't great. There's a reason why literally none cares about EW and none plays it, unless it's 1 month before RBW.

 

[Lokalo]

no offence but i am really curious regarding "maps where strategy seemed more important than the skill". Imo Strategie ist THE skill in a RTS? So what are you refering to?

Reffering to new maps, where often people win home maps and quite easily, with for example picking burgundians where you can easily wall or picking mongols in tons of hunt map which even feel quite unfair. But yes, that's what I tried to say, this is strategy game, but is fun when 2 different strategies can give semi equal game to watch, not where one strat stomps another, but again, you might have different taste.

??? We've just finished qualifiers and in 1 month will be the Main Event of the biggest tournament ever in terms of prize pool. And that tournament is way too focused on 'skill' or in other words micro, clean play, speed and is also quite less about strategy. I personally think EW is really bad idea and lacks too much variety and strategy, but I got why RBW wanted such format. I'm not against it because RBW events are always fun to play/watch, the production is great, etc. But the pure game mode isn't great. There's a reason why literally none cares about EW and none plays it, unless it's 1 month before RBW.

Well we are talking about RM, even though I like EW sometimes for more chill games(yes, it is more chill, apart fast start you don;t get to game attached, a lot more stuff depends on luck as you can't even scout what your oponent does in time before deciding what to do and so on). So I can see your point, although I disagree with it, EW is quite different, also as you start with more vills in EW usually losing a vill or two in feudal doesnt mean that much too. I mean, I get your point about aggressive type of play, even though people like Jordan played super passive most of the games in EW qualifiers, although I still kind of miss what it has to do with RM tournament.

 

[kalpit00]

Unpopular opinion but EW is basically an extreme mode of greed vs aggression, where luck plays a much larger role than we are used to. Greed as in on some maps, if you are able to pull off a greedy FC and then drop 2 TCs with minimal vil losses, the gameplan for you is just to stabilize and let your vil lead kick in 5 mins later where you most likely can win if you are able to win back the lost map control. The other side of the coin, aggression. Full feudal aggression can end games if the opponent underreacts. 1 TC castle age aggression can win games if you find the right damage at the right times. Not a lot of strategy involved, as Dracken stated, more about mechanics (constantly producing army at all times), proper reactions, micro all around, unit control in multiple locations, etc etc.

And to clarify, greed is not meta on EW because it results in giving up map control and position, by when if enemy drops a fwd castle on u, even if u have a 10-15 vil lead, its hard to come back, they dry you out of gold or stones most times. Have seen Viper plenty of times on EW ladder where he goes greedy and drops those extra TCs and it is a joy to watch him macro as he defends and defends, but from a strategy point of view, he most likely won't do it in Redbull as its not the best move, best move is to play aggressive full army, and not defensive if given the choice.

 

[Paulad]

As a viewer, I prefer a new event with new maps because you see new playstyle, new strats, differents meta... I like those tournament whitout the same maps that we already saw for decades. But it can be tricky, having new maps doesn't mean that those maps will be good everytime. But there is realy good mappers around nowadays which know what they are doing!

Or just make a new rage forest

 

[amazing_knight]

I liked the Wallaha format of 9 vill start.

I think the future lies somewhere between RM and EW. Viewers are more used to RM, but sometimes the RM games are too long. Multiple bo5/bo7 series in a day with long games limits the tourney hype. Can't catch all games (6-8 hours in a day!), so invariably we end up missing many games.

#Suggestions (from the perspective of a viewer from 7+ yrs) -

• Don't make the tournaments too long - the tournament shouldn't be spread across more than 3-4 weeks else the hype goes down. BoA/KoTD format is best. As Modri said, this can be achieved through the good old single elim rather than group stage/double elim.
  
  
• Classic maps yet new strategies - As other pro players have also said, classic maps are the best test of strength. RMS maps are sometimes too wild - big tourneys should be on the ladder maps as that's what we play most. But there should be scope for new strategies - which is why some changes in the format (high vill start/limitations on civ selection etc) would be nice.
  
  
• Nations Cup / TG tourney on classic maps- Even though this has been said multiple times, would absolutely love another NC. NC 2017 was one of the best tourneys to watch. Another edition with some tweaks (allowing small countries to merge subject to avg rating restrictions etc) would be awesome.
  
  Alternatively, while I loved BoA - a Clan TG tourney but on classic maps would also be immensely fun to watch. Another alternate is a TG tourney with mix of 1v1s, 2v2s, 3v3s and 4v4s. This might help with scheduling challenges as 4v4s are limited.
  

Regards,
Oh wait, this isn't work so scratch this Regards bullshit.

 

[Memeluke]

You take a guess

 

[otw_Da]

Mega Random, all players choose random, random teams, 4on4, everyone has like 10 tries. best players will continue

or an tg tournament were real world maps are played - these maps should earn way more attention

 

[amazing_knight]

tg tournament were real world maps are played - these maps should earn way more attention

Dave has your attention.

 

[Potkeny]

I liked the Wallaha format of 9 vill start.

I believe it was Deep Waters League doing that "first"? (In a relative big tournament.)

Not sure how acceptable that is for open maps though, would probably need other changes too (X tiles radius being scouted on spawn, or multiple sheeps spawning under TC, etc.), and starting resources can be problematic too (how much food do you start if you have more villagers? do you have less sheep/deer around too? etc.).

If you are walled, its somewhat easier (bigger starting LoS due to walls, somewhat less variables to very-early game vill-distribution based on strategies), and its not that big of a problem if everyone can fast castle easier with more available food (might be even better, if it means less trushes), but open-map players usually like watching 3 archer getting micro'd against 4 skirms, and I'm not sure that would remain the same without thinking the start-conditions through well enough.

 

[MembTV]

Thanks for all the great feedback, will keep reading it all, we will have a decision soon.

 

[Utariel]

I would love to watch a tournament with all the classic and most played maps or a tournament with only open land maps but without arabia.

 

[Springoftheking]

I think KoTD would be fine next tournament. If there would be a new tournament format, I hope it would be for something competitive and not some exotic stuff.

 

[siestes]

Not sure how acceptable that is for open maps though, would probably need other changes too (X tiles radius being scouted on spawn, or multiple sheeps spawning under TC, etc.), and starting resources can be problematic too (how much food do you start if you have more villagers? do you have less sheep/deer around too? etc.).

all of that is taken care of in the deep water league format

 

[Potkeny]

all of that is taken care of in the deep water league format

And I'm sure there are people who don't agree with every decision of the DWL format, which is why the tournament should think through how exactly they want it with the specific maps/rules they want to use.

 

[Lokalo]

And I'm sure there are people who don't agree with every decision of the DWL format, which is why the tournament should think through how exactly they want it with the specific maps/rules they want to use.

You are talking in very abstractive manner which leads to thinking you have no clue how it's working currently, nor that it already has bigger radius of explored area. Not sure if it is true or you don't really know anything about it apart 9 vills start. Things are already adjusted for all civs with bonuses like Lithuanians, Persians, Chinese.

So your posts seem strange, do you have any proper argument what about people are unhappy exactly?As you seem to list issues which are already solved. As that people are unhappy about new format... That says nothing, many players here are unhappy about any changes.

 

[TopperHarley]

Please do a mixed maps tournament (maps similar to NACs/Hidden Cups).

You could call it „Memb‘s mixed maps Madness“ (MMMM)

 

[Potkeny]

Things are already adjusted for all civs with bonuses like Lithuanians, Persians, Chinese.

Do you want Britons/Hindustanis have more food? Tatars/Mayans/Gurjaras to have something extra for the sheeps "missing"? Mongols to have more scouted at the start?

There are many small things one can discuss about DWL start, which can change the balance in interesting ways but which is absolutely not relevant for Memb's thread (and might be irrelevant for most viewers anyway).

 

[JayGould]

I'd like to see a 1vs1 tournament where each player creates their own civ and sticks with it in every game/all throughout the tournament. And the maps would have a lot of variation (including open, closed, water etc) so if you make an OP civ on open maps for example it'll be bad on closed and water maps.

Can assign points to every unit type, technology and upgrade in the game (incl unique ones) and then each player gets a certain amount of points to spend. Or you make a draft where the first player to pick a tech in the first round will be the last to pick in round 2, and so on.

 

[JayGould]

Another idea would be a classic maps/NAC-style 1vs1 tournament where instead of bans you pick a certain amount of your opponents civs.

Like pick 4 for yourself and 3 for your opponent.

Or a variation:

Every civ that you have picked in the tournament and that you win a game with, you will not be able to pick again (until you only have 6 civs left since if it's BO7 you need 7 civs, and those old winning civs of yours will become available again).

 

[TheShaunPlays]

Something new, by the end of it KOTD got a bit stale I think some more time for a break would be nice to freshen up and maybe come up with a new twist for the event.

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