AOE-II DE What do you think about the Bulgarians with their free militia line upgrades and tons of bonuses?!

[Instinctz]

The civ have too many bonuses and too much advantage

So where is the proof all these advantages are paying off? Surely you can provide ACTUAL EVIDENCE they are OVERPERFORMING because all these ADVANTAGES ARE TOO MUCH

 

[MAE_JO]

Really? I just proved its only saving you 400 food during castle. You really think thats going to compensate for the difference in food income? Good grief.

Boyar laugh at their knights.

Yeah Boyars 11. Good luck brining the numbers. In general the Bulgarians player can kill the whole Slavs with CA playing only. Bulgarians vs Slavs is not even a debatable match, it is a direct civ win for Bulgarians.

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

Bulgarians are fine

 

[Instinctz]

Yeah Boyars 11. Good luck brining the numbers

Have you seen detinets?

In general the Bulgarians player can kill the whole Slavs with CA playing only

Bulgarians vs slavs is a very balanced matchup so I'm not sure what game you're watching.

 

[MAE_JO]

Bulgarians vs slavs is a very balanced matchup

Not even close, direct Bulgarians win for sure. From the first minute in feudal to last min in imp Bulgarians civ have the advantage.

 

[Instinctz]

Not even close, direct Bulgarians win for sure. From the first minute in feudal to last min in imp Bulgarians civ have the advantage.

Winrates say otherwise. So put up or shut up.

 

[MAE_JO]

Winrates say otherwise. So put up or shut up.

But Bulgarians win rate better than Slavs 11

 

[Instinctz]

But Bulgarians win rate better than Slavs 11

Not by much though. And your argument was head to head.

 

[Uselessaurus Rex]

@MAE_ME

Two of the most important things in this game, on many, many maps, are Eco Bonus and X-Bow. Bulgarians have neither, and so are tough to play.

The later the game goes, and the less arbalest and eco bonus the focus becomes, the better Bulgarians become. They are a really fun, but very well balanced civ. they are absolutely not overpowered.

 

[Instinctz]

For those who voted to actually nerf this civ who ARENT equalizer.

Can I ask why you think this civ needs nerfs?

 

[MAE_JO]

@MAE_ME

Two of the most important things in this game, on many, many maps, are Eco Bonus and X-Bow. Bulgarians have neither, and so are tough to play.

The later the game goes, and the less arbalest and eco bonus the focus becomes, the better Bulgarians become. They are a really fun, but very well balanced civ. they are absolutely not overpowered.

I never said they are overpowered, but I doubt they are balanced. You mentioned xbows, why should I even make xbows?! As Bulgarians you have a huge advantage with the cheap dirt blacksmith anyway vs any civ. In general there is upcoming nerf for the xbow upgrade too. On the other hand, the civ are fun to play yes, but they have really many bonuses, and not normal bonuses, no, huge bonuses. Free militia line upgrades is too much and too big for a free bonus, really much. Even their siege discount is insane. I don't think making their militia line upgrade cost no gold for example instead the free instantly whole line upgrade for free will hurt them that much, they will be more balanced. They have great CA, great UU, great infantry and great siege, nerfing their militia line a little bit won't be that big deal. In general I am against giving any civ a free upgrades for the units especially the whole line. It is too much.

 

[Uselessaurus Rex]

why should I even make xbows?!

You're probably right, Xbows are ****. Could you let every pro ever know? They seem to always make these little fellas

 

[MAE_JO]

You're probably right, Xbows are ****. Could you let every pro ever know? They seem to always make these little fellas

No I mean as Bulgarians there is 0 reasons already, are you telling me they are balanced because they don't have xbows?!
11

 

[Uselessaurus Rex]

No I mean as Bulgarians there is 0 reasons already, are you telling me they are balanced because they don't have xbows?!
11

Two of the most important things in this game, on many, many maps, are Eco Bonus and X-Bow. Bulgarians have neither, and so are tough to play.

 

[MAE_JO]

I am actually curious how lacking the Xbow make them tough to play? Can you explain pls.

 

[Instinctz]

He said lacking both a direct eco bonus and xbow makes them tough to play

 

[Uselessaurus Rex]

I am actually curious how lacking the Xbow make them tough to play? Can you explain pls.

Sure. The main units that are seen in castle age are knights, xbows, seige and monks. The only one you can mass from feudal onwards is archers/xbows. By upgrading from archers to xbows you get a huge amount of useful army very quickly.

Civs with xbows and a strong eco bonus can get that power spike earlier.

The higher the ELO, the better people are at using that power spike. Also xbow are generally a great castle age option as they don't require food so you can boom and defend and get to imp early too.

 

[MAE_JO]

Sure. The main units that are seen in castle age are knights, xbows, seige and monks. The only one you can mass from feudal onwards is archers/xbows. By upgrading from archers to xbows you get a huge amount of useful army very quickly.

Civs with xbows and a strong eco bonus can get that power spike earlier.

The higher the ELO, the better people are at using that power spike. Also xbow are generally a great castle age option as they don't require food so you can boom and defend and get to imp early too.

Yeah good but there are somethings that you forgot. First, this powrr spike will not help you that much if you are not an archer civ already, because you want to play with your strength points. As Franks for example yeah I can go archers and then xbows but howlong? I need to get my own units or I will die so this is 1 thing.

2nd thing as Bulgarians, you don't have xbow but you have a great power spike called " The cheap dirt blacksmith". Because this gives you a huge early power in every single stage in the game starting in feudal to imp. Your enemy is archer civ and you want to make archers and skirms to fight him back? More than fine you will be the one who have the advanatage with the cheap dirt blacksmith and you will force your enemy to run and wait to have all the upgrades to keep up with you. He will be late going up, not you.

You fear the archers rush or xbow early and can't defend? You have 50% TCs stone cheaper, what does this mean? This mean you can drop a tower any where you want and at the same time be able to get 2nd TC and defend until getting your knights with the cheap dirt upgrades or Eskirms or whatever.

You have cheap dirt castles (kreposts) to defened your base or even drop your enemy.


The thing is, you are right about the xbow upgrade if you are talking about a normal civ, but no, this is not the case with Bulgarians. I agree that you need the xbow sometimes until you make the transitions to other units, but with Bulgarians it is way easier and not that big deal.

 

[Instinctz]

The lack of direct eco bonus also means it's harder to get up to castle then a civ like slavs or Vikings

 

[MAE_JO]

The lack of direct eco bonus also means it's harder to get up to castle then a civ like slavs or Vikings

True but Bulgarians have options, and great options with great advantages that will put a good pressure on your opponent early and make your way up safe, and will be safer in castle age with the cheap castles (Kreposts) and the early huge powerful cheap blacksmith.

Having a safe eco with weak eco bonuses is better than having eco bonuses with no safety.

In the end my topic was not about the civ, but that it is too much to give a civ a whole big line upgrades for free even if they don't have xbow. The civ have tons of bonuses and the free milita line is huge bonus. Making it cost no gold instead the free whole line instantly will be not bad either.

 

[SouFire]

Bulgarians were over buffed on demand as it was the weakest civ from cuman's expansion, their design was quite poor so to fill the lack of design they gave them lots of free bonuses, when they got stirrups they lost paladin, but at the same time they got the blacksmith bonuses and the most powerful hussar until the appearance of polish winged hussar.

The lack of xbow is the only reason why bulgarians aren't a top civ in pro level, with current path finding, camel civs like hindustanis and gurjaras i guess bulgarians have no room either at 1x1 or tg, they a re strong civ but as many other civ they can't compete with the most powerful economic bonuses, arch civs and counter units.

 

[MAE_JO]

Bulgarians were over buffed on demand as it was the weakest civ from cuman's expansion, their design was quite poor so to fill the lack of design they gave them lots of free bonuses, when they got stirrups they lost paladin, but at the same time they got the blacksmith bonuses and the most powerful hussar until the appearance of polish winged hussar.

The lack of xbow is the only reason why bulgarians aren't a top civ in pro level, with current path finding, camel civs like hindustanis and gurjaras i guess bulgarians have no room either at 1x1 or tg, they a re strong civ but as many other civ they can't compete with the most powerful economic bonuses, arch civs and counter units.

Exactly this how it was. They were over buffed and they got tons of bonuses.

I agree the new powerful camel civs and most of DE broken civs make them looks weaker but the main reason why is this, becasue every single DE civ is strong and need a nerf.

Brokengundians (Burgundians), Sicilians, Cumans, Lithuans, Bohemians, Poles, Gurjaras, Hindustanis. All these civs need nerfs, actually the only balanced DE civ is Tatars. From old civs you still have too many civs need nerfs, China, Berbers, Britons, Franks, Huns, Mayans, Aztecs, cheap dirt eagles food cost, actually even Byzantines need a nerf, they have tons of bonuses, especially their counter units discount, it should be down from 25% to 15%.

 

[Progeusz]

Do we have to suffer through 1-3 threads for every single civ before this storyline ends?

 

[hellhammer]

How hard have you lost to Bulgarians..

 

[SouFire]

Actually tatars are in the same group of civs that got over buffed, free thumbring is too strong, they dethroned huns as the CA dominant civ and just because they get two key upgrades for free and instantly, keshik got buffed, their hussar is a tank for arrows, they have economic bonuses, good siege, not a single weakness and their clown UU that melts mounted units.