What did MBL say to get banned for a week?

[Carlini8]

The precise point is that it's not a random word. It is a word which has a long history as a homophobic slur. Please notice, nobody here has suggested MbL should be perma-banned or anything like that. A lot of us have said that a few days seems proportional and we respect the remorse which MbL has shown. Nobody here has suggested we think MbL meant it with homophobic intent, nor that we think he is a bad person.

The issue a lot of us are caught up on is the constant defence people are showing for using language which is harmful to marginalised people in society. It comes across as people saying they have no understanding or sympathy for people who face often daily challenges because of the way people speak both to and about them, who face violence and abuse for who they are. This went beyond being about MbL's involvement a long time ago.

Cheese

 

[Umdeuter]

It was random because if we agree that intent was not homophobic, it could have easily been any other random offensive word.

Use another one then.

 

[MyRegalTip]

If I met some of you in the street and you said that word I'd probably just leave, but since I'm addicted to this game then I'm stuck with you all- please just try and consider the feelings of other people who share your love of this game, and don't be surprised when a private company enforces their ToS. Some of you have no idea the history some of us have with that word. Asking as a friend.

 

[green eggs]

I've really appreciated this thread, and it's heartening to see (based on rec counts) that the majority of people in this community seem to understand the issue and are supportive of the ban and of MbL's response.

I think the thread has reached the point where it's just people rehashing the same arguments and the same few posters trying to muddy the waters by bringing the discussion back to "intent" when it's been explained dozens of times that that's not what this is about. I think mods should consider closing the thread – everything that needs to have been said about this, already has.

Incidentally, Misqus created his/her/their account on Wednesday and all of his/her/their posts are on this one thread.

 

[_balcanman]

And the government prosecutes you

I doubt someone can get prosecuted for insult using a foreigen language word in anonymus surroundings.

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

This is so blown out of proportion xd

 

[RobChang]

I doubt someone can get prosecuted for insult using a foreigen language word in anonymus surroundings.

Me too, but somehow he tried to get the government involved here :D

 

[Misqus]

I've really appreciated this thread, and it's heartening to see (based on rec counts) that the majority of people in this community seem to understand the issue and are supportive of the ban and of MbL's response.

I think the thread has reached the point where it's just people rehashing the same arguments and the same few posters trying to muddy the waters by bringing the discussion back to "intent" when it's been explained dozens of times that that's not what this is about. I think mods should consider closing the thread – everything that needs to have been said about this, already has.

Incidentally, Misqus created his/her/their account on Wednesday and all of his/her/their posts are on this one thread.

Yeah, up till wednesday I just lurked around here. I've decided to create an account and post in this thread cause it was concerning sth I care about. I propably won't post again until another such matter comes by. I didn't come here to be patted on the back but to voice my issues I had with bans for offensive language (that I personally don't use) and I knew from the start that my take on the matter was not a popular one.

I don't see any problem with that, and I'm not sure why the age of my account should matter as you can see that I didn't came here just to troll. Feel free to put me on ignore list if you don't like what I'm saying, I don't have any issues with that.

I agree that everything is said and done already and now it's just running in circles.

I also enjoyed this thread, and I'm glad that there are still people that don't feel the need to regulate everything.

 

[MaSmOrRa]

Yeah, up till wednesday I just lurked around here. I've decided to create an account and post in this thread cause it was concerning sth I care about. I propably won't post again until another such matter comes by. I didn't come here to be patted on the back but to voice my issues I had with bans for offensive language (that I personally don't use) and I knew from the start that my take on the matter was not a popular one.

I don't see any problem with that, and I'm not sure why the age of my account should matter as you can see that I didn't came here just to troll. Feel free to put me on ignore list if you don't like what I'm saying, I don't have any issues with that.

I agree that everything is said and done already and now it's just running in circles.

I also enjoyed this thread, and I'm glad that there are still people that don't feel the need to regulate everything.

I commend you for maintaining your composure and keeping it civil despite the barrage of comments coming at you with stuff like “how can you possibly have a different opinion than mine, whats wrong with you?!”.

For the record, I (mostly) disagree with you, but your posts made me think deeper about my position because you made a lot of good points.
That’s all a good discussion should be about.

 

[Umdeuter]

people that don't feel the need to regulate everything.

if you want to keep a good discussion level in the future, you may consider to not picture the people who disagree with you as crazy extremists

pretty sure that noone in here "feels the need to regulate everything"

as I said before, I personally and subjectively share your preference to not ban language, but I find it worrisome
a) to not even (try to) understand the reasons behind a policy like that or at least not showing a bit of sympathy for attempts to help and protect people against discrimination
b) to act as if attempts of fighting racism/homophobia/racism are comparable to authoritarian state policies, as if it's something that take away substantial freedom rights of people

Or to put it in another way: If it's just about me, I would be totally fine with allowing any kind of verbal aggression and insults without any bans or restrictions. But I don't think this is a very important thing, I don't think I have good objective arguments for that and, most importantly, I think it's very important that bans or restrictions like that are a way lesser topic, a way less problematic restriction than things which did and still do authoritarian states on a daily basis like putting journalists into prison, murdering political opponents, criminalise homosexuality, protecting policemen who attack and murder minorities etc.

As long as things like that are issues in the world, arguing that banning homophobic or racist slurs being a type of authoritarian politics always make it look like you're actually in favor of homophobia, racism, etc. It's an argument that right-wing parties use all the time while supporting actual suppressive policies to justify those. That's why you shouldn't expect that people assume you're being genuine about your point when you argue like that.

 

[Misqus]

if you want to keep a good discussion level in the future, you may consider to not picture the people who disagree with you as crazy extremists

pretty sure that noone in here "feels the need to regulate everything"

as I said before, I personally and subjectively share your preference to not ban language, but I find it worrisome
a) to not even (try to) understand the reasons behind a policy like that or at least not showing a bit of sympathy for attempts to help and protect people against discrimination
b) to act as if attempts of fighting racism/homophobia/racism are comparable to authoritarian state policies, as if it's something that take away substantial freedom rights of people

Or to put it in another way: If it's just about me, I would be totally fine with allowing any kind of verbal aggression and insults without any bans or restrictions. But I don't think this is a very important thing, I don't think I have good objective arguments for that and, most importantly, I think it's very important that bans or restrictions like that are a way lesser topic, a way less problematic restriction than things which did and still do authoritarian states on a daily basis like putting journalists into prison, murdering political opponents, criminalise homosexuality, protecting policemen who attack and murder minorities etc.

As long as things like that are issues in the world, arguing that banning homophobic or racist slurs being a type of authoritarian politics always make it look like you're actually in favor of homophobia, racism, etc. It's an argument that right-wing parties use all the time while supporting actual suppressive policies to justify those. That's why you shouldn't expect that people assume you're being genuine about your point when you argue like that.

It was just a figure of speech. I thought it was obvious. Also I've never compared banning profanities to authoritatism. Exactly for the reason you stated - I wanted people to take me seriously. I've only stated that legal censhorship of anything is Bad, in response to a guy that said that slurs should be banned from use anywhere and vanish.

I Understand the reasons behind those policies, I Understand that there is discrimination and verbal abuse is a real thing. I'm simply argueing that I don't believe censorship is a right way to go about those problems. It sloves nothing, maybe it works short-term but ultimately it only sweeps the problem under the rug.

In my opinion it may even do more harm then good. If fa**ot wasn't a banned word and treated like an attack on entire gay community actual hateful guys would have one less profanity in their arsenal. Banning it just gave it to them on a silver platter. Now they don't even have to think - whenever they want to insult a gay they can just whip out a "fa**ot".

For me censorship just prooves that you have no idea how to tackle the problem so you'll act as it doesn't exist. And I'm not talking about Twitch but in genral. Twitch can write their ToS hoever it likes and if u use it obey them, I agree. I also agree it's not hard to avoid those words, but banning them feels wrong for me.

Also how many times in life people feel the need to use such words? 99.99% of the time it will be in jokes or in friendly banter or just venting off, not attacking anyone. I call my brother a "fag*ot" sometimes but it does not mean I hate gays, or that I would actually use it against gay person. I don't know why many people here assume that if someone uses such words he automatically must be *insertsomethinghere*phobic or racist or hateful in general. They are just words it matter HOW you use them not IF.

And lastly it was me that was painted as ignorant and "crazy extremist" For the most part of this thread, not the other way around but thanks for the solid advices, I'll keep them in mind

 

[shm0wt]

I mean I know I'm just feeding the troll at this stage, but did Misqus literally just argue that the reason that homophobes started using the word f****t to attack gay people is because it was "banned"? Like what kind of bizzaro backwards logic are they asking us to buy into here in order to justify their desire to engage in casually homophobic "banter" with their friends and workmates? What planet are they on? Why do they think people originally objected to this word being used in general? It's laughable at this point frankly.

 

[Umdeuter]

I think, you're making a mistake here by mixing up individual reaction and society rules, Misqus. On individual level, being offended makes an insult effective in a way. On society level, there is not a person to be offended, it's about tolerating something or not tolerating something.

If your logic applied, homophobes would be happy about banning homophobic slurs. But somehow they're not.

 

[JoshuaR]

Not British, so I defer.



Well you see, that's the thing. Perhaps it started as an insult, because it was used to refer to homosexuals in a derogatory manner. But as a word becomes more and more popular, it often becomes divorced from its original meaning. When I was a kid growing up in America in the late 90's, it was very common to call a friend a "faggot" when he did something we disapproved of. Were we saying he was a homosexual? No, in fact I remember using that word before I even knew what a homosexual was. So while it most certainly started as a slur, there was a period of time in American culture where it transcended that and became a insult you would sling at anybody. I'm quite certain that was never true of n****r.

When I was a kid we played a game called "smear the queer." Someone grabbed a football and ran around with it until other kids tackled the "queer" and stole the ball from him. It seemed like just harmless fun. The game seemed to transcend the image it was (probably) originally created to illustrate: a bunch of bullies chasing after and beating up the "queer." For some reason I never even thought about the word "queer" used in this context relating to a homosexual person. We just played it as a fun game when we weren't organized enough to play a real sport and were still young enough so as to be relatively indestructible tackling one another.

But do you really think that a bunch of kids playing a game all about tackling the gay person DOESN'T somehow impart some kind of particular view for those people as they grow older? Do you think it DOESN'T reflect the culture they grew up in? It doesn't reflect who they are, who their parents and teachers are?

My best friend told me a joke where he put a bunch of pepper on the surface of water (in a plate or bowl) and dipped his finger in the bowl (nothing happened). Then after dipping his finger in some dishwasher soap, he made some kind of racist undertone to describe why all the pepper (black people) ran away when he dipped his finger in this time. I can't remember the joke except to know that this kid, who learned the joke from his dad, is spreading the same ideology and message of implicit racism. These are the same people that played "smear the queer" as kids, and think it's completely okay to keep playing it later. These are the same people that think they are "not racist" because they have "black friends."

These are the same people that say that saying faggot or nigger is acceptable because comedians do it, or maybe it's just "locker room" talk. No. Even if your only reasoning for saying it's okay is that you know your friends do the same thing and You don't really mean it doesn't mean that they don't.

So yeah, just because you used the word before you knew what it meant, or because I played "smear the queer" before I understood what it represented, doesn't mean those words weren't created, used, and still used in order to spew hate to a group of people that probably DON'T think those words have transcended their original meanings.

 

[123hunter]

I will not discuss politics on aoezone because it does not belong here.
I will not discuss politics on aoezone because there are much more valuable things to do in life. Even doing nothing and just sitting on a couch is more valueable.
I will not discuss politics on aoezone because it does nothing good - neither for me nor for others.
I will not discuss politics on aoezone because I become whatever I spend my time on. And I dont want to become an eratic lunatic.
I will not discuss politics on aoezone because it is a huge waste of time and the main reason for doing so would be only to escape boredom.
In short, I will not discuss politics on aoezone.
Have a great Day

 

[Misqus]

I think, you're making a mistake here by mixing up individual reaction and society rules, Misqus. On individual level, being offended makes an insult effective in a way. On society level, there is not a person to be offended, it's about tolerating something or not tolerating something.

If your logic applied, homophobes would be happy about banning homophobic slurs. But somehow they're not.

I agree. And on society level it works even without censorship. People mostly behave themselves not because of fear of breaking the law but because of basic human decency and fear of ostracization by other members of society.

In Poland it is forbidden by law to promote totalitarism and publicly show symbols of totalitaran regimes. This did not magically eridicate commies and they have their own (unofficial) political party or there are still people walking around in Ché t-shirts etc.

The only way to deal with any social problem is education, underatanding and work from ground up. Not censorship that only makes it look like there is no problem at all.

Before sharing my "controversial" Wiev that it does more harm than good I've stated it's my opinion. It won't stop actual *xxx*phobes from using slurs but it may ricochet into average Joe who was just venting off, joking or had a slip up.

I guess I had too much time last week, I never planned to be so active in this thread, but the discussion suddenly became very interesting. I like argueing cause it allows me to have a peek at how people with different opinions than me think and operate.
I've tried to keep my posts clean even when I was not taken seriously and I hope I suceeded at that.
Thanks for the thread.

 

[otw_Da]

Guys one question, technically i'm born as a bastard, if some famous streamer uses this word now because he want to release his frustration in an difficult situation, should I feel offended? I'm new tho this stuff and not used it it sorry no offense - serious question

 

[IYIyTh]

Guys one question, technically i'm born as a bastard, if some famous streamer uses this word now because he want to release his frustration in an difficult situation, should I feel offended? I'm new tho this stuff and not used it it sorry no offense - serious question

Listen John Snow, get back to the wall.

 

[futhark1]

I opened this thread, then opened MBL's apologetic damage control video where he kept referring to it as "the f word" and then continued reading the thread where other people also kept referring to it as "the f word" with the belief: "saying f_uck gets you banned in twitch now?" until I finally read that the so called "f-word" is actually faggot and not f_uck.

Imagine that there are certain words people are so afraid of using so that I as a reader have to guess what the word is. People are having a discussion about a certain word without addressing the word itself -- what a f_ucking joke.

 

[oozkan]

If Twitch people would understand Turkish, half of the channels would be closed.

 

[Umdeuter]

I opened this thread, then opened MBL's apologetic damage control video where he kept referring to it as "the f word" and then continued reading the thread where other people also kept referring to it as "the f word" with the belief: "saying f_uck gets you banned in twitch now?" until I finally read that the so called "f-word" is actually faggot and not f_uck.

Imagine that there are certain words people are so afraid of using so that I as a reader have to guess what the word is. People are having a discussion about a certain word without addressing the word itself -- what a f_ucking joke.

You could have read the first five posts of the thread to get behind that miracle.

 

[Degaussed]

As a homosexual vegan I feel much more offended by the Brittish meaning of the F- word:
" A type of food; it is made from a pig’s heart, liver and the fat belly meat, minced and mixed together with breadcrumbs and herbs for seasoning. The mixture is then shaped into balls each of which is wrapped in caul fat from the pig’s omentum, each of these individual balls is a faggot. They are then cooked and served in a thick gravy with peas and mashed potatoes. ".

Anyone eating that should get a permaban!

Hey man, we eat what we could afford!

 

[futhark1]

You could have read the first five posts of the thread to get behind that miracle.

A control+F search in the thread's pages shows that the word is addressed in the entry #41 for the first time. You cant count and you are incapable of understanding the essence of what I am saying. I'm not sure which is worse.

 

[Umdeuter]

Posts #3 to #8

Update

Sorry Boys...

www.youtube.com

He apologizes for using the F-word
I wasn't there, not sure if this is really the reason, but it seems likely

The F word.

What is this world coming to.

It is coming to a place where private platforms are holding their broadcasters responsible for homophobia. Terrible, isn't it?

So, a ban because MBL calls someone a homo? OMG.... The world is not tolerant at all anymore. I love this world much more 10-15 years ago when people not got offended so quickly.

Ah, where I'm from the "F word," is ****.

Oh yeah, no, the other F word, I guess his video clarifies as well.

Sorry if I falsely assumed you'd be able to understand context.

 

[IYIyTh]

Yeah the apology video just says f word so i can see how it's confusing, since that's not what most people think